298 replies to this topic

[dervishx5]

EvilCow, on 15 July 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

You opinions have been heard.

and ignored

[MischiefSC]

So there was a great discussion that was sent elsewhere on the topic. Here was a good quote I think needs preserved in a thread that's still in the public part of the forum

Pat Kell, on 15 July 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

So a few things I would like to go over here.

1. We did NOT sign up for this. We signed up for a stompy stompy mech shooting extravaganza with awesome graphics. We did not sign up to have the computer decide that it's your turn to die. Of course games change and people should adapt to the new situation but it should be incredibly clear by all the posts on this that a lot of people are deciding to leave CW rather than subject themselves to it's use. That in and of itself should clue PGI into the fact that if they want CW to be a strong part of MWO, than they need to make changes that people are going to accept and a large majority of players are speaking out and saying they don't want to play CW if long tom stays in this mode. This long tom was introduced at the beginning of phase 3 and has been one of the biggest reasons that people are leaving in disturbingly high numbers. Also, please do not be so condescending when pointing out to the community that by playing CW, we are agreeing to all the mechanics of this game. If there is something patently and obviously wrong with the game, it is our responsibility to come here and voice those concerns. Sure some aren't valid but on this one particular point, a VAST majority of the posts I have seen are saying that long tom is too powerful and needs to be either drastically reduce in power and range or removed altogether and replaced with something else.

2. Yes, long tom is instant death if you are near it. Most mechs can't run from it because of it's range even if they are at a dead run when the purple smoke drops. In fact, mechs that are fast enough to gain some distance from the center of the long tom are typically less armored and still wind up dead. Screaming over voip to spread out does absolutely nothing for the guy/s who are near ground zero as even the fastest mechs will sometimes get caught by it, if you're under 120KPH, kiss your but goodbye or at least most of your mech.

3. I am glad that you feel like long tom should be balanced and fixed but this won't be nearly as easy as one might think. It just doesn't revolve around the long tom itself, it's about the ability of one faction having somewhat (and I use that term loosely) of an advantage when it comes to scouting that would need addressed as well. I don't think it's as bad as some may think but it needs looked at as part of the fix for long tom. That being said, I think it would be much better for the survivability of CW if they would remove it altogether and replace it with something that makes more sense for the mode. Something that would still give people the desire to do scouting missions yet won't necessarily be a deciding factor in a match. There are several good options out there but I am in favor of giving each pilot on the side with "long tom" one additional air strike or arty strike that they could use as they please that is identical to the current one. Certainly not game breaking but can be helpful enough to warrant scouting for it. I am leery of a constant UAV type deal but if you made it like little seismic readings instead of allowing people to target lurms with it, I think that would be nice as well and honest maybe a be more in line with what you would think scouting would give you as a benefit...constant knowledge of where the enemy is at.

4. We are a highly organized team. I would never want to fight against a long tom for 2 reasons. Pulling a victory out of that is difficult to say the least and it removes the main reason for me wanting to play this game which is to shoot mechs. Now try putting yourself in the shoes of people who come to CW because they like the idea of being able to "respawn" and to have the long tom come in and ruin all of your fun by killing you without much of a fight occurring at all. You can talk all you want about CW being hard mode, which it is, and the need to communicate effectively, which you should but none of that will make someone want to come back and play when they are selected by the game to die. CW was already losing players at a rather steady pace for various reasons prior to long tom becoming a huge issue and the ones that were left had a bit of a gentleman's agreement not to scout to long tom so that we could actually play against each other in a reasonable, somewhat fair way. Once the event happened, people had to scout in order to get the goods and long tom came out in force, along with the apparent imbalances between IS and clan tech mainly due to streaks. This event did more to solidify the head stone of CW than any other thing I have seen. Sure, people have left for a variety of reasons in the past but nothing has been more clear cut to me than the long tom in not only getting old players to leave but to also sour the imagine of CW to new players. It must be changed drastically at the very least but even then I don't think it will be enough to get people to come back. I fear that the only thing that will get more people to play CW outside of events is by removing.

Sorry for the wall of text but for those who like to skip to the end to get the point, just read this. Remove or drastically weaken long tom or CW will never be able to pull itself out of the basement and low player participation that you are currently seeing. Not saying that a lot will come back as there are obviously many reasons why people have left CW but this one seems like the absolute easiest to fix....just hit the delete key.

Here's another one with context.

Quote

{Posted Yesterday, 10:14 AM
Andi Nagasia, on 15 July 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

so what your saying it it would be like 6SSRM6s hitting you 2.5times? every 4 minutes?

Lights and Mediums are fast Enough to get out of the way in time,
Heavies and Assaults would just Shrug it off, it would be Useless, at that point just remove it,

the LongTom Should Hurt, its an Incentive for you to Scout the Planet and Attack,
if you are getting hit with the LT you need to get an Active Scouting Party,
edit- Spelling}

There simply has to be a better way to incentivize people to put in the effort to do scouting missions. Higher pay outs, give more loyalty/merc points, make a separate faction reward tree so that as you scout, you can earn free stuff such as you get as a loyalist or a merc...cuz lets face it, there are some who would rather get poked in the eye repeatedly than run scout missions.

Have more levels of scouting so that rather than just 3 levels, there are 6 or 9 and each one doesn't have to be unique but maybe strengthens a previous benefit by making it occur more often such as the satellite sweep. Heck, giving universal seismic as the highest reward would be awesome and difficult to overcome but at least you would feel like you have a chance. I know highly organized teams have been able to win against the long tom before but I can't imagine it's happen a lot. It's absolute no fun to a vast majority of people who play CW and the only ones who like it are the ones who struggle in invasion mode and need it as a crutch and the few highly organized teams out there who enjoy the challenge enough to go against just to see if they can beat it. That is not a good recipe for a healthy and vibrant CW.


{Ryllen Kriel, on 15 July 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

I don't care much about how the Long Tom is tweaked...as long as it can't hit me in the Quickplay queue then I'm not concerned.}

This is why long tom is a problem....and should be a huge indicator of what people are doing.

SAVE CW- REMOVE LONG TOM

Here is the link to the quoted thread.

I used examples from Pat Kells posts because KCom is the poster child for CJFs success - yet they're as strongly against LT as anyone else.

This isn't about 'sour grapes'. It's players pointing out a very bad game mechanic that is literally emptying the population from FW.

I really don't get how this is even an argument. If a mechanic makes people quit playing then it's a bad mechanic. This isn't magic or a surprise.

Edited by MischiefSC, 16 July 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

AnTi90d, on 04 July 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

Russ is finally going to take action:

Changing an instant kill mechanic that does 1,650 damage to an instant kill mechanic that does 1,320 damage is not taking action.

Changes to Long Tom Artillery
• Maximum amount of Damage that can be dealt to a single 'Mech is now 1320 DMG (120 DMG per Component).
• That is a reduction from the previous 1650 DMG (150 DMG per Component).
• Total Blast Radius is now 200 m (reduced from 300 m).
• Epicenter Damage Radius is now 30 m (reduced from 50 m).
• Epicenter Damage Radius is the Radius in which 'Mechs take maximum damage.


So against my better judgement I joined up with a FP group last night when asked very nicely by some fellow loyalists.
Same old, same old.

Got Long Tom during a match. Match was about as much fun as watching old, quadriplegic people try to get romantic.
Poor ******** never had a chance.

Never got another match. Just ready up and wait for the log jam of teams to work their way through ghost drops and ten minute reward penalty.


There is no victory here.

Edited by Remover of Obstacles, 16 July 2016 - 03:39 AM.

[AnTi90d]

EvilCow, on 15 July 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

You opinions have been heard.

and ignored

..and buried in Jettisoned Communications: http://mwomercs.com/...h/page__st__140

PGI wants to keep the Long Tom so bad, they hired a Jade Falcon pro-Tom moderator just to hide dissent.

-----

Even with the nerf down to 120 damage, the Tom will still do 120 x 11 components = 1,320 damage per mech at the center.
Tabletop Tom does 30 damage, divided up as 5 damage to 6 components = 30 damage per mech at the center.

PGI's Tom, after this nerf, still does 44 times the damage of a Tabletop Tom.

Tabletop Tom drifts and isn't meant to kill mechs. After fired, mechs are able to move far away from it. It's an area denial weapon.

PGI's Tom hits at the center, mere moments after targeting. Mechs aren't able to get out of the way and it outright slaughters them. It does not fit the spirit of the weapon.

-----

In before this thread is moved to JC just because it doesn't fit the narrative being pushed.

[Remover of Obstacles]

I am all for keeping the Long Tom if it is significantly nerfed (80%+) and does NOT instant kill FP planet queues. I am afraid that a 10% nerf will just outrage the community more and cause more people to lose confidence in FP.


PGI tried something new (just like the minimap and doritos).

It was an idea with merit, it just wasn't tested and refined to not kill game play. PGI was off by a factor of 10 on the damage value and a factor of 2.5 on the cooldown. It happens, now please fix it.

Space program lost a lot of monkeys before they put a human on the moon.

But that is the reason that monkeys were used instead of paying customers.

http://steamcharts.com/app/342200#6m


TLDR:
Please test new content before having your customers go through months of frusstration and bullocks.


#savethedoritos (you can have mech class and direction in the same icon, we have the technology)

Edited by Remover of Obstacles, 16 July 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[Danjo San]

So Patchnotes are out and LT has been reduced by 200 DMG.... not to, but from 1500 to 1300... yeah! Whooohooo... Instant kills are still a thing! Thank God/Russ

[MischiefSC]

Danjo San, on 16 July 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

So Patchnotes are out and LT has been reduced by 200 DMG.... not to, but from 1500 to 1300... yeah! Whooohooo... Instant kills are still a thing! Thank God/Russ

Yeah. The change is completely irrelevant.

[Pat Kell]

I hear "Taps" playing softly in the background.

Edited by Pat Kell, 16 July 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[Lehmund]

I'd like to be the devils Advocate here, just because I like math and wanted to calculate the Actual damage potential reduction of the post-patch Long Tom.

At epicentre , Long Tom will still kill any mech with a 20% reduction in damage from 1,659 to 1,320.
But because radius has been reduced, assuming for a moment a linear degradation of damage from epicentre to the edge of the blast, the damage potential 3D graph should look like the volume of a cone.

The following summary of math illustrates the Damage potential power of the old LT and the new LT. Accounting for the blanket 20% overall damage reduction (included):
Volume of a cone= H*pi*2 / 3. = Damage potential power

Old LT Damage potential power: 155,540,000
New LT Damage potential power: 55,264,000

In essence the destructive power of the LT has been effectively reduced by: 64.5%

This means, in matches it's killing effectiveness has been significantly reduced.

I believe with an already moving mech, much of that damage can be avoided now due to the radius decrease.

However, clever teams can take significant advantage of mechs being spread and isolated to avoid its damage. This by far is the reason teams against LT get decimated.

This nerf is good but won't resolve its problem of being overpowered.

I would much rather see LT keep its radius Andy do AirStrike damage only.

I believe in that case, teams may take the hit and not feel they have to isolate themselves on the map before each LT hit.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Lehmund, on 16 July 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

This nerf is good but won't resolve its problem of being overpowered.

I would much rather see LT keep its radius And do AirStrike damage only.

Yes.

Still an instant kill mechanic completely controlled by the computer AI.

[Karl the Plumber]

I'm a fan of the long tom but I cast my vote to remove because I've seen the LT empty planetary attack queues, break up FP groups, and completely demoralize brand-new players giving FP a go.

I think the mechanic and damage are fine and I like the idea that there's artillery out there and you might be next, no matter what. I like FP more, though.

[Chagatay]

He already caved in a good deal the long tom will be nerfed

[DivBy0]

No, PGI ignored the will of most of the player to remove this stupid nuke and only go down in the damage a bit. From 1650 to 1350?.... from Hiroshima to Nagasaki... complete useless. No one which more than one weapongroup will drop against it.
Skillcrowgame-Mode still unbalanced. FP is brocken since thie stupid Phase 3 Desaster and .... everey day it care me less

Chagatay, on 17 July 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

He already caved in a good deal the long tom will be nerfed

Edited by von Haudegen, 17 July 2016 - 01:02 PM.

[Chagatay]

von Haudegen, on 17 July 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

No, PGI ignored the will of most of the player to remove this stupid nuke and only go down in the damage a bit. From 1650 to 1350?.... from Hiroshima to Nagasaki... complete useless. No one which more than one weapongroup will drop against it.
Skillcrowgame-Mode still unbalanced. FP is brocken since thie stupid Phase 3 Desaster and .... everey day it care me less

Pfft you act like it isn't that big of a nerf, I mean seriously 300m to 200m radius is -55.555% change to the area of the attack. So hard to please you people are. Don't even get me started the epic whine over quirk changes. It is like people didn't see the writing on the wall...

Edited by Chagatay, 17 July 2016 - 05:14 PM.

[Pat Kell]

Chagatay, on 17 July 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

Pfft you act like it isn't that big of a nerf, I mean seriously 300m to 200m radius is -55.555% change to the area of the attack. So hard to please you people are. Don't even get me started the epic whine over quirk changes. It is like people didn't the writing on the wall...

Any change other than removing an arbitrary computer controlled missile coming out of the sky and obliterating 1-12 mechs without any real action taken by the enemy is not good enough. Sorry man, but I came here to shoot mechs, not waste my time watching the computer do it for me.

[Carl Vickers]

Well I can say if this continues I wont be playing too much MWO in the future.

FW is my game mode of choice but if there are no queues for matches cause of LT and silliness there is no reason for me to play.

Shame really cause I have not played an online game for as long as I have played this one, why, cause battletech, big stompy robbits shooting big stompy robbits, much fun.

[StUffz]

Cathy, on 04 July 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

I think the whole mechanic of it is wrong

The thing is a goddamn tactical nuke, which I didn't think was used until the jihad broke the Ares convention in 3070, and you don't launch them randomly at intervals, in a battle your winning.

If it had been of a sensible radius, at sensible frequency, doing a sensible amount of damage, that just needed tweaking, i'd be in favour of it remaining, but it's done so much damage to FW and P.G.I's shaky credibility, it's got to go.

I'd suggest it's replaced with free consumables for each player of the team with the long tom lit, it's sensible it's not crazy damage, and its practical.

P.G.I should be able to code this without to much time and trouble, because you can use them for free in the testing grounds now.

Maybe you should read the last book of the battletech series, when Victor Steiner allowed to NAIS cadets to recapture NAIS. Mines and LT bombardement. The only way was to avoid the area or to route through civil areas.

Going back to MWO. LT is avoidable but requires a lot of coordination and always being moving around. PGI should at least only allow one or two LT per game or give premade groups the option to lower LT percentage when planetary invasion/defens was a success.

[Avian Blackfrost]

StUffz, on 17 July 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

Maybe you should read the last book of the battletech series, when Victor Steiner allowed to NAIS cadets to recapture NAIS. Mines and LT bombardement. The only way was to avoid the area or to route through civil areas. Going back to MWO. LT is avoidable but requires a lot of coordination and always being moving around. PGI should at least only allow one or two LT per game or give premade groups the option to lower LT percentage when planetary invasion/defens was a success.

I would just like to mention that if a Long Tom dropped on top of you, and you were in an Assault Mech, that Assault Mech would be as good as dead and no amount of movement could fix it.

Edited by Judy Hopps, 17 July 2016 - 08:05 PM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Another night with only one planet available to attack.

Another night with Long Tom.

Another night with Ghost Drops.

Haven't fired a shot against an enemy mech in well over an hour.


There is no victory here.

[Remover of Obstacles]

We got a match..... No wait, another ****ing ghost drop.

Another "victory".

See it says so right here.