87 replies to this topic

[Scarlett Avignon]

Quite possibly the worst idea I've ever heard on these forums. I'm not even trying to be mean or condescending. Just literally the worst.

[bpphantom]

Essentially, using a nuke opened you up to similar retaliation. The WoB nuked Outreach and were in turn hit with a tactical nuclear strike which ended the Jihad. Just as in war today there are lines a civilized union is not supposed to cross.

Edited by bpphantom, 17 July 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[Jason1138]

"They aren't saying noone nuked each other, they'e just saying NOONE used them after 1st Succession Wars until Jihad, which is the period we're in."


if that's what they're saying, then they're wrong. as i stated above, they were used in the time period this game is set in

[Voridan Atreides]

No it would ruin the game.

[Shoklar]

Worst idea ever.

[Schtirlitz]

No nucs, please.

[grimzod]

Huntsman, on 16 July 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

These nations mutually agreed not to use nukes, but they all use mechs which regular pop to similar effect from reactor crits?

How odd...

Its called a 'stackpole' for a reason.

[Jiri Starrider]

Karyudo ds, on 16 July 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

You never drop nuclear scale firepower onto a BATTLEFIELD ever. You use large scale weapons like that to wipe out large areas from far away...and usually if you don't have options. Granted not everyone follows "the rules". That scale of firepower just sounds ridiculous and cartoony to me though. Something I would expect from CoD...

orly?

I expect the OP has had enough though. Simple canon misunderstanding. Not everyone here has the background with the game and it's history that others have.

[Jiri Starrider]

Xandre Blackheart, on 16 July 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Uhm... Just how "tactical" do you think a nuclear detonation is?

Are we talking 5 kiloton? 10 kiloton? You can already do that with orbital weapons in this universe. (for comparison the hiroshima bomb was a 5 kiloton bomb).

I hope we're not talking megaton range. Earth curvature is 7 miles LOS. Assuming you are spotting anything direct line of sight, you will be killing yourself. Maybe if you were on a mountain, you might get 30 or 60 miles.

A normal thermo-nuclear bomb in use today is in the 80 megaton yield range. The blast RADIUS is sixty (Six Zero) miles. If you survive, then as everyone else has noted, you, your family, and everyone you know, including your employers will be rounded up and likely tortuted to death. If they are lucky.

And one final nail in the coffin. Mechs do NOT have hardened systems. There's no reason to, because no one in their right mind uses a nuke unless they are ready to suicide and take everyone else with them. At the very least. not the type of hardening that is going to keep their delicate magnetic fusion bottles functioning in an EMP wave. So you and everyone else in an extremely large radius has just been shut down, perhaps permanently.

Won't that be nice when they show up with pitchforks and torches...

Dude, Wikipedia, it's easy to check facts before making wild assertions.

Largest bomb ever deployed 50 megatons (though you were close about the blast radius)
Standard US nuke air dropped up to 340 kilotons, ICBM possibly up to 475 kilotons. Russian ones similar but a bit bigger (550 kilotons), with some MIRV's replaced by one up to 6 megaton bomb.

Anyway, not to promote the use of nukes, but no need to go making the problem worse. Just makes people ignore the issue by not being accurate about it.

Back to the GAME. Where ever did you see anything about mechs not being hardened? The nukes are prohibited by treaty, but they still exist. Seeing as many of the mech designs were survivors of the wars, that used nukes, that brought about the destruction of a lot of things, but not mechs. I think it's pretty clear that they are hardened. Heck, just to fly in space systems have to be hardened enough to provide basic EMP protection.

Ashla Mason, on 16 July 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Further, at this point in the timeline, I'm not sure anyone actually has a warship; they were pretty much all destroyed in th first 2 succession wars.

Not openly. Wolfs Dragoons has 6 kept secret. The nations have hulks that they hope to (and eventually do) reactivate. Comstar at this point has the largest fleet in the innershpere, but again, kept secret. (Cause the writers didn't invent them till the Jihad... )

Edited by Jiri Starrider, 17 July 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

I assume this is a not for serious thread as the Houses don't nuke.......anymore.

Since when was 3049 Jyhad era? 0_o

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 17 July 2012 - 07:38 AM.

[Uri Brauer]

Neither. They're both bad ideas.

[Draelren]

What scares me is the 5% that thinks it is a good idea...

[Terror Teddy]

Mrllamaface, on 17 July 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

On that line I hope that the comander skills do not allow for a "push a button someone dies" type of effect.

Definitely not. Nut im allright with a delay of say 5 seconds before the order takes effect. On a fluid battlefield the commander would have to be sure to hit his target and a five second delay is not unrelistic for planes/artiller/orbital targeting to be finished.

Lets not forget that such strikes can also be innacurate.

[DeathDealer 6]

With nukes I can picture a HUGE amount of splash damage, heat and friendly fire. Case in point, the commander shoots his missile and in the time delay one of his lances mistakenly chases a enemy unit into the blast zone. ZAP, dead lance and your down 4 mechs and I hope the rest of your company is capable of carrying the fight because meanwhile the cicada, commando or jenner pilot that suckered them in pee's himself to death laughing at you as he runs away because he was fast enough to get away from the blast zone. Plan on human error, it happens in real combat too. It's a lot less when you have a good training regimen but some things you can't plan a training exercise for.

The Ares Conventions also expressly forbids the use of nuclear weapons on inhabited planets. Ever.
(For those interested the Ares Conventions are posted at the Armageddon Unlimited site in the Forums section under Battleroms, the title is Lostech Document: The Ares Conventions of 2412. I should know, I posted it.)

Nukes also have a huge clean up bill. Mechs may be shielded, mostly due to their nature of carrying a reactor on board, but would you want to get out of a Mech that just survived a highly irradiated area? Not this boy, you couldn't pay me enough C-Bills to get out of a Mech that's still glowing on the outside. Gonna go back to the Mech Bay and let the techs in the radiation shielded equipment wash it off while I take a nap all comfy inside the cockpit so that I don't microwave my private parts.

Doesn't sound like a good option to me. In fact it sounds really dumb.

Now if the same setup happens with a surgical orbital bombardment at least some of your Mechs might make it out of the blast zone by sheer luck, damaged for sure but still moving and shooting. Sure your going to take some losses but it won't be a total S.N.A.F.U. like a nuke would. Also, a lot more cleaner, literally. A little note on orbital bombardments, they can't target moving things like Mechs, vehicles or infantry. The only thing they can target at that distance is the ground or what is on it, like buildings or cities. Also, a bombardment is subject to scatter rules and is basically a controlled chaos ride in a blender but there is a small chance that somebody might actually walk away with light to moderate damage, where as a nuke is a huge BOOM with a huge radiation count that lasts for a hundred years if your lucky.

The orbital bombardment sounds a lot better to me when you consider all the facts.

Edited by DeathDealer 6, 17 July 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[trycksh0t]

No. Absolutely not. Despite what CoD claims, wanton use of nuclear arms is the worst possible thing one can do in any conflict. To the best of my knowledge, nukes have not been used in the IS since the 2nd Succession War, they're kinda the reason why the Sphere was kicked back into a technological recession.

[ChargerIIC]

Jason1138, on 17 July 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

"They aren't saying noone nuked each other, they'e just saying NOONE used them after 1st Succession Wars until Jihad, which is the period we're in."


if that's what they're saying, then they're wrong. as i stated above, they were used in the time period this game is set in

Once and it was decried as a war crime. If people at the company level are able to calling down nukes that's the kind of scorched earth recklessness that defies logic. Orbital bombardments are much more common in BT and more sense tactically.

"Congratulations! Our tactical nukes just assured us possession of the port city. Our people can move in say ..4 centuries or so..."

[DeathDealer 6]

LOL ChargerIIC

Too True

[Mattrixx]

Maverick01, on 16 July 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Having nuclear strike capability instead of naval bombardment on the commander skill tree would be epic for MWO. Obviously a warning should be given (e.g. nuclear missile detected) and the commander would be limited to one per match.

If the enemy mech is far enough away from ground zero, they should survive the massive explosion and shockwave, but still suffer minor-to-moderate damage. However, if the enemy mech is located at ground zero, they would suffer critical damage. Imagine being in game and all of a sudden a bright flash blinds you on screen as you hear a massive explosion! This would need to be balanced, but the developers could make it work.

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

Umm, I'd like to draw your attention to this. I am not sure how much aware of the effects of the nuclear weapons and the amount of damage they do but anyone at ground zero... well, pretty much gets atomized on the spot, no matter how hardened your systems are. Unless the blast happens a few kilometers up from ground.
If the detonation happens at ground impact or close enough there will be a sizable hole left after the detonation of the nuclear device.

And as have been pointed out the sizable blast radius to boot is not minor even on small scale devices so unless your mechs been hardened to withstand the other effects as well, and not just the EMP, you are pretty much toasted. And not only that the radiation from the blast will kill you, if not within minutes or hours then in days. Even mechs cannot take that kind of radiation saturation unless they are lead coffins all through and to my knowledge they are not, not even the cockpit. Leads not the best battle-material I know of even today although it is a good radiation blocker.

So, I join with the others saying "No" to nukes.
Yes, they make an incredible show but I sure as hell would not want to see one being used in my life time or for that matter ever again (but knowing humanity and what we are like I would not hold my breath for either account).

[Gryfyn1]

whoa super awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[AP514]

got to be the wost half thought out post I have ever seen here...what were you thinking....Dohooooo