152 replies to this topic

[Danghen Woolf]

I have to applaud the mostly civil discussion headed up by Mister Blastman and the others on here. I just have one question though... Where is the division of the Bads, Terribads, Chronic Bads, and Pugstarheroes? Maybe I missed this talking point but I think that one of the things that should be accounted for is that while all players want to win, and hope that their team also wants to win, some players (me) will use 'mechs that they like and that are fun to pilot. I am happy to share my stats since the reset and before. I am happy to say I am almost 50% better since the reset

Current
Wins/Losses: 881/996
KDR: 0.58 (807/1393)

Archived
Wins/Losses: 126/188
KDR: 0.27 (64/239)

So I guess looking at everything I should be happy to be T4, it only took me a few months to get there. And following the argument of Chronicbads I would be one of those as well.

I think your facts are solid but there are too many other variables at play to get a good cross section of the data that PGI would be able to act on that they probably cannot collect from the server reports. Until they actually release populations, percentages, Tier breakouts, and other metrics, all we can really do is hope to get grouped with people who know which end of the autocannon points towards the enemy.

Good luck out there!

[EgoSlayer]

Just a question for the people that are posting results and the player results.

Are you using the player's global ranking, or their rankings from the mech class they are playing in the match?

[Mister Blastman]

EgoSlayer, on 11 July 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

Just a question for the people that are posting results and the player results.

Are you using the player's global ranking, or their rankings from the mech class they are playing in the match?

I'm using global stats with mine. Although, if someone has 100+ games in a weight class then it might be better to use those for that specific 'mech they were playing in.

[adamts01]

Rouken Vordermark, on 09 July 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Since the more successful players are likely in a higher tier they are likely more successful against stronger opposition.

That's not true at all. It's well established that PSR trends upward, meaning it's tied to experience just as much as success. That's been shown a hundred times and was officially stated by PGI. I think Blastman nailed it.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

adamts01, on 11 July 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

That's not true at all.

Sure it is

adamts01, on 11 July 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

It's well established that PSR trends upward

That's because you become better with practice

adamts01, on 11 July 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

meaning it's tied to experience just as much as success.

Experience is more or less directly proportional to "success", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

I highly doubt anyone that has never played MWO will somehow become a worse player the longer they spend playing...

[Lily from animove]

Hit the Deck, on 11 July 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

WTF

Especially the number of matches. Most I've got is like 300 matches in my HGN-733C since the end of 2014.

true no lifer over there, thats why ^^

[Hit the Deck]

Lily from animove, on 12 July 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

true no lifer over there, thats why ^^

Well, it's pretty cool that he's got a spouse who also plays the game with him (that Victoria account originally belongs to his wife if I'm not mistaken).

[VictoriaSeymore]

Hit the Deck, on 12 July 2016 - 01:04 AM, said:

Well, it's pretty cool that he's got a spouse who also plays the game with him (that Victoria account originally belongs to his wife if I'm not mistaken).

Correct. I met my wife in my original MWO unit. Introduced her to the game, taught her how to play, married and now have a child with her. : )

Edited by VictoriaSeymore, 12 July 2016 - 01:46 AM.

[adamts01]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 12 July 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

Experience is more or less directly proportional to "success", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

I highly doubt anyone that has never played MWO will somehow become a worse player the longer they spend playing...

Of course if you swing completely to one side of the spectrum (someone who has never played before), they'll improve. Seriously though, these "perma-bads" Blastman speaks of are real, and his numbers in this example show it. The team with significantly more experience, was significantly less successful. I spend a crap ton of time in this game, more than many pros, yet I'm only average, I've hit my ceiling. Experience and skill in this game are only loosely related, less so as time goes by.

[Littlerift]

We don't want 100% perfect skill-based matchmaking because under such a system eventually everybody ends up with a 50% win rate and a K/D of 1.

[Lily from animove]

VictoriaSeymore, on 12 July 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

Correct. I met my wife in my original MWO unit. Introduced her to the game, taught her how to play, married and now have a child with her. : )

the clan breeding plan, until mankind develops iron wombs

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 July 2016 - 06:55 AM.

[Orville Righteous]

VictoriaSeymore is a good argument for adding a Tier 0. I wasn't surprised to him ranked near the top when the leaderboards came out.

[Mister Blastman]

Littlerift, on 12 July 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

We don't want 100% perfect skill-based matchmaking because under such a system eventually everybody ends up with a 50% win rate and a K/D of 1.

Not exactly. No matter how they tweak it, no matter what they do, it can get far better than it is now but...



The cream will rise to the top.

The game is more fun when you know a roll is not the fault of the matchmaker, but your own stupid mistakes. When you have eight players on a team who chronically make stupid mistakes versus a team of twelve players who sometimes make them... there's little chance to overcome that. The losers have a bad time and the winners do too.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 12 July 2016 - 06:49 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Some people never improve. Those names you see on your team and all you can do is groan. The LRM potatoes are the most obvious offenders. The ones that fire their LRMs well out of range or into terrain nonstop all match and are lucky to break 50 damage.

The ones that seem to be using a joystick, that is controlled by a combination of their tongue through an elaborate system of pulleys, and verbal commands to their dog.

[Dread Render]

Littlerift, on 12 July 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

We don't want 100% perfect skill-based matchmaking because under such a system eventually everybody ends up with a 50% win rate and a K/D of 1.

This attitude freaks me out... you are kidding i hope.
I want the most even matches possible. In a close game you tend to feel good and enjoy yourself and the game weather you win or loose! That's called a Good Game!
Any game where the win is by more than 6 to me not a good game.
12 vs 0 the worst. 12 vs 1 horrible, 12 vs 2 a joke, 12 vs 3 a bad game. 12 vs 4 not a good game. 12 vs 5 not a bad game, 12 vs 6 a decent game, 12 vs 7 a pretty good game, 12 vs 8 a damn good game, 12 vs 9 a very good game, 12 vs 10 a great game, 12 vs 11 Holy crap that was fantastic..

The MM sucks... really bad... No, Really Really Bad.

[Percimes]

Sorry to say this but the stats are almost worthless, just barely worth more than the MM.

[Dryderian]

I am still pretty new(30.05.2016) and reached Tier 3 last week. That was the moment Quick Play matches changed a lot for me and I played much in a short time frame.

1. Suddenly it started that facing a group which just stomped over my team is more a rule than an exception.
2. Suddenly communication over VOIP happens very rarely compared to Tier 4 or 5, which may promote 1.
3. Players seem overall way more careful or should I say fearful too engage an enemy force directly together.
4. Suddenly I get taken out or severely damaged often by jumping, falling, moving mechs from 700 to 1000m away who exactly hit the one part which is in structure with one shot, does not matter if I move too or not.

Overall the groups seem very uneven and a good fight does not happen very often, you stomp a team(very rarely) and get stomped a lot. I really thought the fights get more tactical, planned and coordinated when I get to higher tiers.

Edited by Dryderian, 12 July 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Percimes, on 12 July 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Sorry to say this but the stats are almost worthless, just barely worth more than the MM.

The stats do not lie. In them is the truth of a player. The stats can tell us...

If a player hides behind teammates to steal kills and buff their KDR.

If a player is an influencing positive factor in their team's victory and by how much.

If a player can put out damage time and time again.

If a player sacrifices themself for their team over and over but that sacrifice leads to results.

If a player is a chronically bad player.

The stats tell us many things and one thing they do not lie about is if a player is truly bad.

[Votanin FleshRender]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 12 July 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

That's because you become better with practice



Experience is more or less directly proportional to "success", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

I highly doubt anyone that has never played MWO will somehow become a worse player the longer they spend playing...

I've got a dozen examples from my last job before I started working for myself of folks who worked the same job for 10+ years and were still terrible at it. You may not become a worse player, but experience does not necessarily mean you become a better. Shaq ended his career with a 55% free throw percentage, despite practicing thousands of free throws every offseason.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

adamts01, on 12 July 2016 - 03:12 AM, said:

Of course if you swing completely to one side of the spectrum (someone who has never played before), they'll improve. Seriously though, these "perma-bads" Blastman speaks of are real, and his numbers in this example show it. The team with significantly more experience, was significantly less successful. I spend a crap ton of time in this game, more than many pros, yet I'm only average, I've hit my ceiling. Experience and skill in this game are only loosely related, less so as time goes by.

Then perhaps in order to prevent needless circular point avoidence for the sake of semantical sidetracks we should replace the word "experience" with " experience while actually giving a **** "

B/c duh if you log in only to derp around you aren't going to learn anything...

If I pick up a book on coding and do nothing but fling the book around for 10 hours, I'm not going to learn much either....but no one would ever try to pretend that what I did qualified as "experience"

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 12 July 2016 - 04:32 PM.