176 replies to this topic

[Stone Wall]

Darian DelFord, on 20 July 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

The problem is a lot of that will not work once you get to people who know how to aim. I can assure you.... let the dual Guass Dual ER PPC mechs see you. The moment its charged your dead. Once you hit Tier 3 or 2 and your matched against Tier 1.... lights life expectancy once spotted goes down significantly.

If I ever go Heavy, I user 2 x ER PPCs on a Catapult. My best defense in the Jenner is getting out of the firing arc of a Heavy or Assault, trying to not stay with in a shot's chance from them.

[Spleenslitta]

They say a picture speaks a thousand words or something like that.
I could put up a picture of me doing the most damage on my team in a freaking Kit Fox with the messiest weapon selection you ever saw but that will just become a battle of ego.

So instead i'll do something different and give advice. After you shoot once or twice you relocate...and you relocate far.
Do not allow the enemy to return fire. And for heavens sake get a weapon selection that is flexible rather than a single click build.

Look at this. This is how you harrass the crap out of the enemy. For a point by point explanation of what all those lines mean there is a link in my signature below.
Be warned that it is a 5 postlong textwall monster....probably among the top 5 biggest textwalls in the entire MWO forums.

[Darian DelFord]

Stone Wall, on 20 July 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

If I ever go Heavy, I user 2 x ER PPCs on a Catapult. My best defense in the Jenner is getting out of the firing arc of a Heavy or Assault, trying to not stay with in a shot's chance from them.

Let me know how that works for you when you hit Tier 1 or worse yet comp play and pilots have mastered back turning where a 100 ton assault mech can face his 180 in less than 2 seconds. Trying to stay out of their arc is damn near impossible right now with very very few exceptions... namely DW and stalker.

Better yet when you think you are in cover yet are nailed with a dual gauss at 800+ meters. Believe me..... folks can make those shots with ease in the upper echelon of pilots.

Seriously dude..... I understand that your having fun in the Jenner in Tier 5 or 4 whichever you are now.... but when you graduate to your big boy pants you will see very quickly just how short the life expectancy is for ANY light that is visible to any pilot who knows how to aim a 40+ Alpha.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 20 July 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[AmazingOnionMan]

Darian DelFord, on 20 July 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Seriously dude..... I understand that your having fun in the Jenner in Tier 5 or 4 whichever you are now.... but when you graduate to your big boy pants you will see very quickly just how short the life expectancy is for ANY light that is visible to any pilot who knows how to aim a 40+ Alpha.

Oh, I'm learning to hate those dual gauss in tier3 already. But the quote above is the actual problem. Not the relative sizes, not the lack of agility buffs, not the lack of durability, but the fact that lights are forced to manuevre (or in many cases cannot really manuevre at all) in a setting crawling with twinkies designed to strip the armour off anything below 65 tons with a single volley.

[JinSR]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

Light mechs such as the Jenners and fast mechs such as the Cicadas (and probably many others too) are just so extremely weak and easy to hit that they are almost useless except for perhaps an MC artillery/air strike spinner and then only from very long range but that isn't what I want to play Mechwarrior for.

In the scout role if you even see any enemies you get such heavy damage that you are not much use in the rest of the game.

Players of heavier mechs know that the lights are very weak indeed because they always target them first to get an easy kill.

I want a fast or light mech that is actually useful to play the game, not just launch MC strikes because it's too weak for anything else.

Please PGI do something to improve light mechs such as an armour upgrade and don't forget the Cicada which is supposed to be heavier but seems just as fragile.

I am talking about in General quick play gameplay.


I think I know how lights and fast mechs got nerfed so terribly. Lots of medium/heavy/assault players alt tab into the game a couple of minutes late or more after their team is out of sight and they run into 2 lights and they are destroyed after a while so they go on the forum and rage and complain, so they nerf lights so they can't even win in this situation.

Honestly no disrespect or insults or anything like that, but your frustration comes from yourself, you are the problem.

If your scouting, why are you letting yourself be seen and opened fired upon?
Why are you putting yourself in positions on the map where u can be seen and targeted.
why are you peeking around corners that you know has a heavy/assault looking at that exact corner waiting for a mech to come past.
Why are you predictable?

People just have a very obsure idea of how their medium/light mechs should function compared to how the game intended to them. You are not going to survive hits from a 100tonner vs your 20 tonner. Why are you putting urself in that position to begin with?

With everything else being equal - You will not out-trade hits with a mech with better weaponry then you. just need to come to terms with that.

I generally do not run into your problem, and I will hazard a guess lots of other light/medium players agree with Me.

If I die in a light/medium mech it is 99% My fault.
-Exposing Myself in a place I shouldnt be.
-being in the front
-not with my assaults/heavies


I think you should take a hard look at yourself each time you die to see why you died (instead of how), if you could of avoided that death and what did you achieve before you died (your a scout have u done your role?)

Sorry if this is recieved with a negative tone but I seriously disagree that the mechanics of lights/mediums are the problem. Good heavy/assault pilots will always fear good light pilots because of how sneaky, how unseen, and how quickly they can bring down their heavier mechs.

Edited by JinSR, 20 July 2016 - 04:32 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

JinSR, on 20 July 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Sorry if this is recieved with a negative tone but I seriously disagree that the mechanics of lights/mediums are the problem. Good heavy/assault pilots will always fear good light pilots because of how sneaky, how unseen, and how quickly they can bring down their heavier mechs.

It is almost impossible to be sneaky in MWO with the smallness of these maps. Lets be frank.... there are only a few places lights can go to get behind anyone...... knowing this its almost impossible to sneak up on anyone. Besides most lights are being pushed into the ML range poker role now.... which means one shot and any competent pilot is looking your way in less than 2 seconds with very few exceptions

Lights have been directly and indirectly nerfed for years now.... until we DO NOT have the same radar signature as a 100 ton mech and have our agility and our JJ's boosted... you will continue to see us evaporate..... We can take one hit from a 40+ alpha and we are all but dead.

Trying to "sneak" around on a map when playing people who know how to play is damn near impossible.

[JinSR]

Darian DelFord, on 20 July 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

It is almost impossible to be sneaky in MWO with the smallness of these maps. Lets be frank.... there are only a few places lights can go to get behind anyone...... knowing this its almost impossible to sneak up on anyone. Besides most lights are being pushed into the ML range poker role now.... which means one shot and any competent pilot is looking your way in less than 2 seconds with very few exceptions

Lights have been directly and indirectly nerfed for years now.... until we DO NOT have the same radar signature as a 100 ton mech and have our agility and our JJ's boosted... you will continue to see us evaporate..... We can take one hit from a 40+ alpha and we are all but dead.

Trying to "sneak" around on a map when playing people who know how to play is damn near impossible.

Smallness of these maps? Really? Frozen city is massive, Grim plexus is massive, Forest is massive, there is alot of cover on these maps...lots of blind spots...The engagement zone is small, but that plays to lights advantage. So I dont really understand.

Why are you getting behind the enemy line by yourself in a light mech...
That
Is
Suicide.

Why are you poking in a position where you KNOW people are going to shoot at you?

"My light mech dies too easily" Is basically a oxymoron, they have the least armor, if you take a full alpha hit from anything heavier than you of course your going to die...Do you expect to live? Trade evenly? What are you expecting here exactly?

All these reasonings and arguements boils down to one thing.

I want to play carelessly. I want My pseudo-invincible playstyle back where I can run into 10 mechs, survive and tell the tale.

Its ridiculous and absurd, how is that even good for the game. You cant advocate this playstyle and try to rally people to your cause because you cant come to terms with NEEDING to play smarter/different in a light mech. You have imposed a unrealistic playstyle and definition to 'light' mechs, I mean it feels like we almost have to rename lights to support/scouts for people to understand the role better.

This change is here to stay, I cant see them reverting it to how it was previously because it was unhealthy for the game, and I agree with PGI.

[Darian DelFord]

JinSR, on 20 July 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

Smallness of these maps? Really? Frozen city is massive, Grim plexus is massive, Forest is massive, there is alot of cover on these maps...lots of blind spots...The engagement zone is small, but that plays to lights advantage. So I dont really understand.

Why are you getting behind the enemy line by yourself in a light mech...
That
Is
Suicide.

Why are you poking in a position where you KNOW people are going to shoot at you?

"My light mech dies too easily" Is basically a oxymoron, they have the least armor, if you take a full alpha hit from anything heavier than you of course your going to die...Do you expect to live? Trade evenly? What are you expecting here exactly?

All these reasonings and arguements boils down to one thing.

I want to play carelessly. I want My pseudo-invincible playstyle back where I can run into 10 mechs, survive and tell the tale.

Its ridiculous and absurd, how is that even good for the game. You cant advocate this playstyle and try to rally people to your cause because you cant come to terms with NEEDING to play smarter/different in a light mech. You have imposed a unrealistic playstyle and definition to 'light' mechs, I mean it feels like we almost have to rename lights to support/scouts for people to understand the role better.

This change is here to stay, I cant see them reverting it to how it was previously because it was unhealthy for the game, and I agree with PGI.

To bad you have spent really no time in lights since the rescale.

[mogs01gt]

these posts make no sense. mwo's game mode are all tdm, why would anyone think a platform that islimited on fire power be functional in tdm? the issue is lack of gamed modes and poor game design.

[Mekwarrior]

"Why are you getting behind the enemy line by yourself in a light mech..."

Because in a game thesedays you are almost always the only light and getting anywhere near the front of any mech even with the rest of the team is certain destruction as lights are targeted as a priority because players know how weak and large targets they are.

The idea of scouting is to find enemy mechs right? Well if you get within viewing distance of 2 on most maps it's game over, you may survive but you won't be able to do anything except cap for the rest of the game.

Unless it's alpine, that's the only map where lights can scout (by staying out of range of long range weapons) but that's all they can do.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 20 July 2016 - 07:56 PM.

[L3mming2]

JinSR, on 20 July 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

If I die in a light/medium mech it is 99% My fault.
-Exposing Myself in a place I shouldnt be.
-being in the front
-not with my assaults/heavies


I think you should take a hard look at yourself each time you die to see why you died (instead of how), if you could of avoided that death and what did you achieve before you died (your a scout have u done your role?)

so in your opinion you should scout whitout being in front, exposing your self, and wile you stay with your assault and heavys... good luck with that one...

[Lykaon]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

Light mechs such as the Jenners and fast mechs such as the Cicadas (and probably many others too) are just so extremely weak and easy to hit that they are almost useless except for perhaps an MC artillery/air strike spinner and then only from very long range but that isn't what I want to play Mechwarrior for.

In the scout role if you even see any enemies you get such heavy damage that you are not much use in the rest of the game.

Players of heavier mechs know that the lights are very weak indeed because they always target them first to get an easy kill.

I want a fast or light mech that is actually useful to play the game, not just launch MC strikes because it's too weak for anything else.

Please PGI do something to improve light mechs such as an armour upgrade and don't forget the Cicada which is supposed to be heavier but seems just as fragile.

I am talking about in General quick play gameplay.


I think I know how lights and fast mechs got nerfed so terribly. Lots of medium/heavy/assault players alt tab into the game a couple of minutes late or more after their team is out of sight and they run into 2 lights and they are destroyed after a while so they go on the forum and rage and complain, so they nerf lights so they can't even win in this situation.

You just need practice and some tips. Light mechs are probably the most difficult to perform with. I would say assaults are also difficult but for very different reasons.

First tip... When performing recon you may want to consider your mech carefully. ECM is a serious plus.
When you go and look for the enemy try to anticipate their likely location and DO NOT run headlong into it. Skirt around it and peak from a flank to reduce the chances of being spotted and if you are spotted you will also dramaticly reduce the amount of fire you will be exposed to.

General rules of light mech-fu

try to never ever stop

Alter your speed when evading laterally (if you are moving across a line of fire at a distance do not maintain a predictable speed and trajectory)

Never run straight away from anything. SERPENTINE! weave and change direction erraticly. Do not weave predictably.

When ever possible NEVER let them see you.If you are running towards a target and it's facing you then you are doing it wrong.

Learn when to commit and when to bug out. You should never stick to a course of action that looks like it has a low chance of success.

Practice practice again and then practice more. Light mechs rarely get to screw up more than twice a match. Once gets you torn to bits the next time get you dead.

Select weapons that reduce your "facetime" with a target. SRMs and pulse lasers are better for harassers since if you are making a high speed pass on a target you will need your weapons to discharge completely during the brief window of exposure.

Do NOT skyline your mech if you can help it. Hug the ground and use cover and speed.If you are running along a ridge line you can and will be seen. Being seen = being shot at.

And of course TIMING. You must learn timing and when it's best to do certain things.

Run straight to the enemy base on an assault match and the enemy mechs are still to close and will double back and defend quickly.

Choosing what to cap and when in conquest is a must. You should not be concerned with the closest cap to your dropzone. Instead you run right for the second closest cap. Let the slowpokes take the close one.

Waiting for the right time is something you will learn and it's very important to light mech pilots.

Edited by Lykaon, 21 July 2016 - 12:53 AM.

[dario03]

JinSR, on 20 July 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

"My light mech dies too easily" Is basically a oxymoron, they have the least armor, if you take a full alpha hit from anything heavier than you of course your going to die...Do you expect to live? Trade evenly? What are you expecting here exactly?

All these reasonings and arguements boils down to one thing.

I want to play carelessly. I want My pseudo-invincible playstyle back where I can run into 10 mechs, survive and tell the tale.

Its ridiculous and absurd, how is that even good for the game. You cant advocate this playstyle and try to rally people to your cause because you cant come to terms with NEEDING to play smarter/different in a light mech. You have imposed a unrealistic playstyle and definition to 'light' mechs, I mean it feels like we almost have to rename lights to support/scouts for people to understand the role better.

This change is here to stay, I cant see them reverting it to how it was previously because it was unhealthy for the game, and I agree with PGI.

"My heavy/assault twists/turns to slow" was a similar complaint but yet a bunch of those have mobility quirks ontop of their armor/structure and firepower quirks.

And all these arguments boil down to one thing, but that thing is balance. I haven't seen anybody ask for anything that would make lights OP. What we want is balance in the game so that it isn't just a race to get the biggest mech. Since despite what people like to claim lights were "intended for", lights are supposed to be viable. Way back in the early days of this game we were told that all weight classes would have a place, it wouldn't just be race to get a Atlas. And since the game is mostly TDM, that means lights need to be combat viable in order to do what they were "intended for".

Now this doesn't mean fast lights need the firepower, range, and armor of heavier mechs, since they have speed. But speed alone doesn't mean they need to be much weaker in all other areas. And since a lot of lights used to be smaller and most were already not that good the size increase needs to include a quirk increase. And a quirk increase is needed for any other under performing mech as well. Or you could go and remove quirks from over performing mechs. But mech performance needs to be compared to all mechs, not just mechs of that class. The whole "its to good for a light mech" complaint should have never been listened to.

[adamts01]

Spleenslitta, on 20 July 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

They say a picture speaks a thousand words or something like that.
I could put up a picture of me doing the most damage on my team in a freaking Kit Fox with the messiest weapon selection you ever saw but that will just become a battle of ego.

So instead i'll do something different and give advice. After you shoot once or twice you relocate...and you relocate far.
Do not allow the enemy to return fire. And for heavens sake get a weapon selection that is flexible rather than a single click build.

Look at this. This is how you harrass the crap out of the enemy. For a point by point explanation of what all those lines mean there is a link in my signature below.
Be warned that it is a 5 postlong textwall monster....probably among the top 5 biggest textwalls in the entire MWO forums.

All that running around means your team is essentially down 1 mech for half the match.

[PhoenixFire55]

adamts01, on 21 July 2016 - 01:42 AM, said:

All that running around means your team is essentially down 1 mech for half the match.

LOL.

In a good trading match between two solid teams a light pilot travels about 20km. And there are two of them.
Very often it is the action of your lights that decide the match.
Some dropdecks have dedicated medium harassers as well that do the same "running around".

So, yeah ... teams that are "essentially down 4 mechs" tend to win.

[JinSR]

L3mming2, on 21 July 2016 - 12:38 AM, said:

so in your opinion you should scout whitout being in front, exposing your self, and wile you stay with your assault and heavys... good luck with that one...

Its alright if you didnt read my previous posts on tips on how to play lights.

Darian DelFord, on 20 July 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

To bad you have spent really no time in lights since the rescale.

So from all I have typed and written that debunk your arguements you have chose that as your reply....Yeah Kinda done with this dialogue when players inherently ignore ways to play better.

[PhoenixFire55]

JinSR, on 21 July 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

Its alright if you didnt read my previous posts on tips on how to play lights.

So from all I have typed and written that debunk your arguements you have chose that as your reply....Yeah Kinda done with this dialogue when players inherently ignore ways to play better.

*drumroll ... Aaaand here are some LIGHT stats:







So, eh ... who is giving tips to whom again?

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 21 July 2016 - 02:37 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 July 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

*drumroll ... Aaaand here are some LIGHT stats:







So, eh ... who is giving tips to whom again?

[B0oN]

adamts01, on 21 July 2016 - 01:42 AM, said:

All that running around means your team is essentially down 1 mech for half the match.

1: They wont need a light to tank anyway since you cannot really tank with it .
2: Youre on the way harassing enemies, disorganizing them, maybe even scattering them
3: By doing #2 succesful you create lots of opportunities for your fatties to put out a world of hurt
4: Once the nooses tightens on your lightmech you can still fight ... on your own terms on the terrain of your choosing

All that you seem to want is to have that light sticking to your side instead of letting it do something useful that actually not many other mechs could pull off .
Tactics and strats guys ... it aint no rocket science, so start using a bit more creativity than just going to the middle of the map and clicking 1 button to alpha your metamechs ....

[adamts01]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 July 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

LOL.

B0oN, on 21 July 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

stuff

I'm all about lights breaking off to do their light thing, but I don't see any reason for enough movement to circle a map twice. If I'm sniping, I'll try to distract the enemy as much as I can from a flank. If I'm hunting, I'll try to get a kill, leg something and then be a squirrel. But every minute running around is a minute of dps my team doesn't have, so I get to fighting as soon as possible. That doesn't mean I Rambo in there all yolo like.