176 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

MadcatX, on 21 July 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

And that's the giveaway, lack of threads actually. There are only 2 as of this posting regarding lights being non-viable and it's essentially the same people in both. When something changes in the game and it's horribly bad, the forum fills up with countless threads about the same darn thing and I do not thing that has changed.

Actually we will put all our gripes into as few threads as possible....

However Heavy and Assault pilots will start a thread for every light mech that shot at them and dented their armor and claim OP'ness.

I mean heck... just go back a month or two and look at all the OXIDE threads that popped up. Heavies and Assaults were starting two a day instead of putting them all into one.

Least we know what part of the MWO community is the squeaky wheel.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 21 July 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

El Bandito, on 19 July 2016 - 01:09 AM, said:

Cicadas are not fragile for a 40 tonner. Not only they are fast, most of them got +10 structure quirks all around. In fact, I am surprised that PGI is not nerf-touching the Cada.

Well... if the current quirks persist... my next troll high speed mech is a Cicada. Which one and the set up... well I'm gonna keep it quiet. I don't want it nerfed before I get my fun out of it after all.

Darian DelFord, on 21 July 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

I mean heck... just go back a month or two and look at all the OXIDE threads that popped up. Heavies and Assaults were starting two a day instead of putting them all into one.

To be perfectly fair the oxide was OP. How do i know? It was a light any idiot could do well in. Lights are hard, they're fragile, and they require more thought to get the best out of them than any other mech class so any light mech that anybody can hop in and survive in even after screwing up horribly is OP as hell.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 21 July 2016 - 09:19 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 21 July 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

Well... if the current quirks persist... my next troll high speed mech is a Cicada. Which one and the set up... well I'm gonna keep it quiet. I don't want it nerfed before I get my fun out of it after all.



To be perfectly fair the oxide was OP. How do i know? It was a light any idiot could do well in. Lights are hard, they're fragile, and they require more thought to get the best out of them than any other mech class so any light mech that anybody can hop in and survive in even after screwing up horribly is OP as hell.

That damn ML/MPL and SRM build is just nasty on the cicada with a maxxed out engine.

It was OP until it got hit with a 50+ point alpha in one of the torso's.

/em grumbles about it being the only Jenner with structure quirks.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Darian DelFord, on 21 July 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

That damn ML/MPL and SRM build is just nasty on the cicada with a maxxed out engine.

It was OP until it got hit with a 50+ point alpha in one of the torso's.

/em grumbles about it being the only Jenner with structure quirks.

SHHHHHHHH! Stop giving away my secret evil plans.

[Jables McBarty]

MadcatX, on 21 July 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

And that's the giveaway, lack of threads actually. There are only 2 as of this posting regarding lights being non-viable and it's essentially the same people in both. When something changes in the game and it's horribly bad, the forum fills up with countless threads about the same darn thing and I do not thing that has changed.

Have you considered sample size?

Fatties (heavies + assbuts) combined average 50-75% of the queue, while lights average 4-14% of the queue.

Also light pilots are by nature stoic and existential. We have chosen the hardest class for our own, and willingly submit to the associated burdens. It is only when the weight of bullsh*t becomes so heavy and stanky, and the tears of the fatties so salty, that we turn to the forums to defend our honor 'mechs from getting nerfed into oblivion.

Darian DelFord, on 21 July 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

I mean heck... just go back a month or two and look at all the OXIDE threads that popped up. Heavies and Assaults were starting two a day instead of putting them all into one.

Least we know what part of the MWO community is the squeaky wheel.

Like a thread a day for Oxide or ACH pre-rescale, two a day for Locust post.

[3xnihilo]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 21 July 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

Well... if the current quirks persist... my next troll high speed mech is a Cicada. Which one and the set up... well I'm gonna keep it quiet. I don't want it nerfed before I get my fun out of it after all.

Well, with the current trend, you have believe Cicadas are going to get their turn on the chopping block soon. But, I am keeping my favorites quiet too, we don't need to give anybody any ideas

[Khereg]

The majority of this thread scares and confuses me.

Carry on.

[mogs01gt]

dario03, on 21 July 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

And they never could against teams with aim or artificial aim via streaks.

Are you sure you're playing MWO? The top lights in the game have been doing that since the beginning of MWO, well after knockdowns. That is always been the biggest complaint regarding mechs such as the ACH, FS9 or the old school spider.

Bush Hopper, on 21 July 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

The problem is that with all the bloated agility quirks on heavies and assaults the speed of lights gets negated to a large extend. In the end it is questionable if it is worth the sacrifice in structure, armour, firepower, range and heatsinks.
The only thing which speed is handy for is, as you said, quick re-positioning. But honestly, you can do that with a fast medium and have less drawbacks.

umm no. Again, are you sure you're actually playing MWO....

The top lights in the game were/are able to 1v1 any mech and also survive running through multiple enemies, which is why people complain about the. LMAO @ fast mediums, what fast mediums? Any medium mech that tries to tried with a heavier mech simply looses armor. The only way Medium mechs have been useful in the past 2 or 3 years is because of over quirking them.


Watch good lights pilots play this game and you'll see why lights are an issue. Artificial defenses is not good.

YueFei, on 21 July 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Then how come in the Battletech source game moving quickly makes you less likely to be hit?

No-one gives a **** about battletech anymore. This game is too far removed from BT to even worth mentioning it. Lore is a better idea on how lights were piloted. They would never go up against heavier mechs simply because one hit from a PPC, AC20, large LRM rack or large SRM salvo would take them out.

Edited by mogs01gt, 21 July 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

mogs01gt, on 21 July 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Are you sure you're playing MWO? The top lights in the game have been doing that since the beginning of MWO, well after knockdowns. That is always been the biggest complaint regarding mechs such as the ACH, FS9 or the old school spider.


umm no. Again, are you sure you're actually playing MWO....

The top lights in the game were/are able to 1v1 any mech and also survive running through multiple enemies, which is why people complain about the. LMAO @ fast mediums, what fast mediums? Any medium mech that tries to tried with a heavier mech simply looses armor. The only way Medium mechs have been useful in the past 2 or 3 years is because of over quirking them.


Watch good lights pilots play this game and you'll see why lights are an issue. Artificial defenses is not good.


No-one gives a **** about battletech anymore. This game is too far removed from BT to even worth mentioning it. Lore is a better idea on how lights were piloted. They would never go up against heavier mechs simply because one hit from a PPC, AC20, large LRM rack or large SRM salvo would take them out.

If it is so easy make a video how you can jump into each of the lights and run through an enemy bulk. If you make it (and that is a big IF), you are so shot up that anyone who sneezes in your direction will get a kill. You could do that in an ACH right after its release. That was only possible with it borked hitboxes and maybe you can do it in T5-4 where people are more concerned with learning to control their mechs than doing actual shooting.

Oh wait, another expert with zero matches in light mechs. Carry on.

[FupDup]

Bush Hopper, on 21 July 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

...You could do that in an ACH right after its release. That was only possible with it borked hitboxes...

About the ACH...the Cheetah's hitboxes are currently identical to the way they were at release. They have not been touched in any way, shape, or form since release. The only change has been removing most of the internal structure quirks, which has had a very large impact on how quickly the mech can be disabled/killed.

[mogs01gt]

Bush Hopper, on 21 July 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

If it is so easy make a video how you can jump into each of the lights and run through an enemy bulk. If you make it (and that is a big IF), you are so shot up that anyone who sneezes in your direction will get a kill. You could do that in an ACH right after its release. That was only possible with it borked hitboxes and maybe you can do it in T5-4 where people are more concerned with learning to control their mechs than doing actual shooting.

Im confused, you want to be able to run into multiple enemies in a light?

Due to improvements in hit reg and the introduction higher alphas, most light mechs have had a hard time in MWO. But like I've already said, THEY SHOULD! Game modes are TDM, light mechs shouldnt be effective in combat. Do not ignore the fact that ACH's and FS9s were notorious for not taking damage but had extremely high DPS levels but their situation is not the same as other light mechs who are relatively horrible in MWO but so are a lot of medium mechs as well.

This is the lightest mech I own, the only light mech I would own is the ECM Raven. It fits my play style, I wouldnt want to own any other light because that is not how I play the game or envision how the game should be played in a light mech.

[dario03]

mogs01gt, on 21 July 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Are you sure you're playing MWO? The top lights in the game have been doing that since the beginning of MWO, well after knockdowns. That is always been the biggest complaint regarding mechs such as the ACH, FS9 or the old school spider.


umm no. Again, are you sure you're actually playing MWO....

The top lights in the game were/are able to 1v1 any mech and also survive running through multiple enemies, which is why people complain about the. LMAO @ fast mediums, what fast mediums? Any medium mech that tries to tried with a heavier mech simply looses armor. The only way Medium mechs have been useful in the past 2 or 3 years is because of over quirking them.


Watch good lights pilots play this game and you'll see why lights are an issue. Artificial defenses is not good.


No-one gives a **** about battletech anymore. This game is too far removed from BT to even worth mentioning it. Lore is a better idea on how lights were piloted. They would never go up against heavier mechs simply because one hit from a PPC, AC20, large LRM rack or large SRM salvo would take them out.

Mwo as in mechwarrior online? Yep thats the game ive been playing for about 4 years. And yeah you couldnt take a light and run through teams of good shots for the majority of those 4 years.

[Weeny Machine]

FupDup, on 21 July 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

About the ACH...the Cheetah's hitboxes are currently identical to the way they were at release. They have not been touched in any way, shape, or form since release. The only change has been removing most of the internal structure quirks, which has had a very large impact on how quickly the mech can be disabled/killed.

Maybe it has something to do then with the global speed reduction (Pilot talent reduction) so that the lag shield isn't that effective anymore. However, I could swear that there was a line of the devs which mentioned that they were looking into the hitboxes. But I could be wrong. Heck, months have passed since then

mogs01gt, on 21 July 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Im confused, you want to be able to run into multiple enemies in a light?

Due to improvements in hit reg and the introduction higher alphas, most light mechs have had a hard time in MWO. But like I've already said, THEY SHOULD! Game modes are TDM, light mechs shouldnt be effective in combat. Do not ignore the fact that ACH's and FS9s were notorious for not taking damage but had extremely high DPS levels but their situation is not the same as other light mechs who are relatively horrible in MWO but so are a lot of medium mechs as well.

This is the lightest mech I own, the only light mech I would own is the ECM Raven. It fits my play style, I wouldnt want to own any other light because that is not how I play the game or envision how the game should be played in a light mech.

1. Try to use non-ECM lights. Even sniping can be dangerous then. Mostly you cannot even pop up at the same location twice and if someone looks in your direction and Lolalphas you with his 40-50+ alpha you look pretty bad.

2. Most weaponry on light mechs is short to mid-range. Actually that should be their forte - even according to the lore. Light mechs were harassers and knife fighters. Heck, even in the boardgame. However, with the easy means of detection and agility quirks on the fatties this is often a no no no.

And what you obviously you do not get one thing: you say yourself that the only thing in this game is TDM. Then you say lights should need to work harder. Now the question is: why should anyone take a light mech then (outside of saving tonnage in FW) when he can have it easier and there is no real role in this game for other playstyles/goals? The answer is: none. Simply because light mechs are, per your own definition, inferior and you want to keep them that way.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 21 July 2016 - 11:26 AM.

[Thor Sten]

I love playing lights, I love scouting, spotting for our LRM-Boats, keeping red dots on my team's minimap and, every now and then, taking on the single LRM-Boat that got seperated from the herd. This would be a good spot for them, lorewise. But looking at the game "lorewise" doesn't make much sense anyways. Even the table top didn't really suit the lore, for example, in the TableTop lights sucked, because scouting was just something that happened in lore, not on the table, on the Table it was pretty much always just, "Skirmish" and you'd need something like four or five 20-ton mechs, to even get a shot at taking down a Marauder.

However playing lights isn't exactly rewarded by MWO as well. Dealing damage brings way more points/cbills/PSR than being a good scout. So I try to do all of it Getting pretty medicore with my Locust PB it was an uphill climb to reach Tier 2, and what do I see? Nearly everyone has the Radar Depriviation module and so my spotting and scouting is even more useless. Having an advantage at capping in Assault/Domination/Conquest is pretty useless, as long as Skirmish is the most voted game mode.

All in all I think, the nerf wasn't really necessarry. I can work with it, but as long as the game doesn't reward scouting by offering some more advantage to the team and PSR I feel a little cheated (as well as challenged) by making the game even harder for me.

Edited by Thor Sten, 21 July 2016 - 11:35 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Bush Hopper, on 21 July 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

1. Try to use non-ECM lights. Even sniping can be dangerous then. Mostly you cannot even pop up at the same location twice and if someone looks in your direction and Lolalphas you with his 40-50+ alpha you look pretty bad.

Why would I want to use a ****** mech?

Quote

2. Most weaponry on light mechs is short to mid-range. Actually that should be their forte - even according to the lore. Light mechs were harassers and knife fighters. Heck, even in the boardgame. However, with the easy means of detection and agility quirks on the fatties this is often a no no no.

In lore you are accurate but not against heavier mechs. They never went up against heavier mechs unless they were attempting a suicide mission to save someone. Dont forget, in lore, Medium lasers didnt do much to Assaults.

Quote

And what you obviously you do not get one thing: you say yourself that the only thing in this game is TDM. Then you say lights should need to work harder. Now the question is: why should anyone take a light mech then (outside of saving tonnage in FW) when he can have it easier and there is no real role in this game for other playstyles/goals? The answer is: none. Simply because light mechs are, per your own definition, inferior and you want to keep them that way.

They should be kept ****** because we have TDM game modes. They shouldnt artificially be good just because.

[Weeny Machine]

mogs01gt, on 21 July 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

Why would I want to use a ****** mech?

In lore you are accurate but not against heavier mechs. They never went up against heavier mechs unless they were attempting a suicide mission to save someone. Dont forget, in lore, Medium lasers didnt do much to Assaults.

They should be kept ****** because we have TDM game modes. They shouldnt artificially be good just because.

1. So that you see in what crappy shape the other lights are

2. No. In lore heavies and assaults had to be protected from flanking attacks by lighter elements. In fact outmaneuvering helped faster units to destroy heavier units in Battletech lore

3. Thanks for admitting that want lights to sucks balls. I think you are one of the few who admits that. My respect for that (I mean that honestly)

[mogs01gt]

Bush Hopper, on 21 July 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

1. So that you see in what crappy shape the other lights are

But I already know and expect them to be ******

Quote

2. No. In lore heavies and assaults had to be protected from flanking attacks by lighter elements. In fact outmaneuvering helped faster units to destroy heavier units in Battletech lore

I've just finished my 15 battletech novel, not once has light mechs ever been used for that purpose. Now if you are referring to LIGHTER mechs, then correct but lights were not used in that manner. Lights were typically used for infantry, scouting, ecm cover and killing of lighter mechs.

Quote

3. Thanks for admitting that want lights to sucks balls. I think you are one of the few who admits that. My respect for that (I mean that honestly)

Other than the big two, ACH and FS9, most lights are garbage. The only time a Jenner is annoying is when you already engaged(or delford is piloting it..) and get multiple missile salvos up your ****. The hit reg "fix" earlier this year or last, made lights not such a big deal. Especially if you can aim your gauss or ac20.

Now an ECM Raven isnt garbage but it plays the same way as an the Cicada 3m. Typically sniping isnt just a light mechs play style.

Edited by mogs01gt, 21 July 2016 - 11:59 AM.

[L3mming2]

Bush Hopper, on 21 July 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

Maybe it has something to do then with the global speed reduction (Pilot talent reduction) so that the lag shield isn't that effective anymore. However, I could swear that there was a line of the devs which mentioned that they were looking into the hitboxes. But I could be wrong. Heck, months have passed since then



1. Try to use non-ECM lights. Even sniping can be dangerous then. Mostly you cannot even pop up at the same location twice and if someone looks in your direction and Lolalphas you with his 40-50+ alpha you look pretty bad.

2. Most weaponry on light mechs is short to mid-range. Actually that should be their forte - even according to the lore. Light mechs were harassers and knife fighters. Heck, even in the boardgame. However, with the easy means of detection and agility quirks on the fatties this is often a no no no.

And what you obviously you do not get one thing: you say yourself that the only thing in this game is TDM. Then you say lights should need to work harder. Now the question is: why should anyone take a light mech then (outside of saving tonnage in FW) when he can have it easier and there is no real role in this game for other playstyles/goals? The answer is: none. Simply because light mechs are, per your own definition, inferior and you want to keep them that way.

nm douche comment redacted

Edited by L3mming2, 21 July 2016 - 12:17 PM.

[Blue Pheonix]

As someone who pilots all weight class of mechs and does fairly decent in all of them, anyone who says lights are fine the way they are overall or that they need to be nerfed further needs to have their stats on the leaderboard checked for number of matches played in a light. They should also disclose their tier level.

While lights may do great in higher tiers, in tier 1 they are rarely played except by a brave few according to the weight que. The average to above average aim, situtional awareness, understanding to stay death balled and mostly meta mechs with all the modules (especially seismic sensor and radar dep) of players in this tier make the light class significantly obsolete, just not completly. I can still manage but it is the most difficult and significantly underpowered weight class there is.

With the skills and modules I just listed and the fragility of the light, boom and zoom brawling is incredibly rare and exponentially more risky with the attributes and modules players in tier 1 generally have. The brave souls that do pilot a light usually have to resort to ecm/stealth and range to be a better degree of viability. There are some of us crazy enough to still brawl and harrass in some of our mech chassis though. However, while it maybe fun, a change of pace and a rush for us, brawling will generally have a significant negative impact on a players kill to death ratio and possibly generally negatively affect win loss ratio as well so we pilot at our own risk and detriment.

Its a shame PGI has nerfed this weight class to this level and buffed much heavier mechs to have unusually high turn rates and speed as they have essentially made MWO a primarily 3 weight class game.

Edited by Blue Pheonix, 21 July 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

mogs01gt, on 21 July 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Are you sure you're playing MWO? The top lights in the game have been doing that since the beginning of MWO, well after knockdowns. That is always been the biggest complaint regarding mechs such as the ACH, FS9 or the old school spider.


umm no. Again, are you sure you're actually playing MWO....

The top lights in the game were/are able to 1v1 any mech and also survive running through multiple enemies, which is why people complain about the. LMAO @ fast mediums, what fast mediums? Any medium mech that tries to tried with a heavier mech simply looses armor. The only way Medium mechs have been useful in the past 2 or 3 years is because of over quirking them.


Watch good lights pilots play this game and you'll see why lights are an issue. Artificial defenses is not good.

Since they fixed HSR a year or so + back lights have not been able to do this without being decimated. Did lag shield exist.... yes. However now it is more of a boogey man story than reality. Does it still happen yes..... however it is far rarer than it was back in the day.

Lights do not have an artificial defense. If in my Jenner I run through the middle of the team... I will die before I hit the end of them.

You know.... it really amazes me..... people keep making this claim yet their are very very few if any video's showing this. Yet there are plenty of video's of Lights taking a single alpha to a CT or ST and just dying on the spot.

Makes you wonder.