67 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

DovisKhan, on 21 July 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

You just forgot to mention that 3 IS ERLL do the same as 2 CLPL, but they weight more, have more heat and more burn time, so yes, Clan is way ahead

Except IS ERLL have a longer range, considerable longer since their optimum is 2x optimal, they do more damage, and are normally quirked...... Whether one is better than the other depends on build and positioning. It's not so black and white.

[PhoenixFire55]

adamts01, on 21 July 2016 - 01:26 AM, said:

For the same real money cost, you get a tricked out Clan package or an IS package that requires at least another 25 million c-bills to get to a workable state, between motors, structure, armor.......

Which you probably already have in your inventory or in another IS mechs ...
Which you can take out and sell unlike engines and what not on most clan mechs ...

Its debatable, I don't see clear advantages or disadvantages.

[El Bandito]

adamts01, on 21 July 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

Except IS ERLL have a longer range, considerable longer since their optimum is 2x optimal, they do more damage, and are normally quirked...... Whether one is better than the other depends on build and positioning. It's not so black and white.

CLPLs are also 2x optimal, BTW. Only Clan small and medium class laser max ranges were nerfed. Large class lasers were untouched, courtesy of PGI's fetish with inconsistency.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 July 2016 - 01:46 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

El Bandito, on 21 July 2016 - 01:45 AM, said:

CLPLs are also 2x optimal, BTW. Only Clan small and medium class laser max ranges were nerfed. Large class lasers were untouched, courtesy of PGI's fetish with inconsistency.

Your so on the Island^TM. Wanna buy a MechPack Mojito?

[ImperialKnight]

iliketurtles87, on 20 July 2016 - 11:48 PM, said:

So i ask you or PGI again, why schould i buy any more IS-mechs (with the current tech)? I really dont know...

because some IS mechs are better than Clan mechs.

I'll gladly take my GHPs, BL-KNTs, WHMs over SMNs, MDDs, ON1-IICs

[Kmieciu]

DovisKhan, on 21 July 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

I just keep CAT-K2, MAD-3R and JM6-DD and KGC, because there is 1 thing IS does indeed to better and that's ballistics

Have you tried 2xUAC10 5xERSL Ebon Jaguar?

[DovisKhan]

adamts01, on 21 July 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

Except IS ERLL have a longer range, considerable longer since their optimum is 2x optimal, they do more damage, and are normally quirked...... Whether one is better than the other depends on build and positioning. It's not so black and white.

675 with 10% quirk + module means at most you get 810 for the ERLL


600 + 10% quirk and 10% TC 9most mechs won't be using that, I'm aware) - 720


That's 90m difference, not that signifficant when you factor in burn time, that's lower on the CLPL


So for IS ERLL to be o par or slightly better, it needs to be equipped on a mech that has duration, range and heat reduction quirks, not that many mechs in higher weight ranges have all 3.

Neither Warhammer, nor the Black knight have all 3, same with assaults


So if someone is a laser enthusiast, he'd be better off with Clan tech


Since I'm personally a dakka guy, I'm ok with IS, since Marauder/Jaeger can ******** Timbers and Jags all day

[PhoenixFire55]

Kmieciu, on 21 July 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Have you tried 2xUAC10 5xERSL Ebon Jaguar?

Ahem ... good luck getting into that 200m effective range or good luck spreading those CUACs all over your targets at 200m+. Saddest thing is that inside 200m any serious IS brawler will make your CT go splat.

[Kmieciu]

DovisKhan, on 21 July 2016 - 01:59 AM, said:

Since I'm personally a dakka guy, I'm ok with IS, since Marauder/Jaeger can ******** Timbers and Jags all day

I'm also an IS dakka fan. I run JM6-DD (3UAC5), CPLT-K2 (twin AC10 or UAC5), CTF-4X (2UAC5 2AC5) and even odballs like Dragon-1N, AC2 BJ-1, SHD-2H 2AC5+AC2.
But the highest damage I ever did in one mech was the 2xUAC10 5xERSL Ebon Jaguar. About 1400 damage in quick play.

[L3mming2]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 July 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

lol ... Ok, lets discuss if you guys want it to get serious.

What are those leaderboards? They show one thing ... the relative ability of better players to farm PUGs in certain mechs.

Cicada is stronk because it is fast and can farm lots of lemmings scattered all over the map.
Nova is stronk because it can pump out 144 damage in 3 seconds and no lemming survives that.
Punchbag-IIC is stronk because it has high hardpoints and can poke lemmings from 800m away all day long without taking return fire.
Stormcrow is stronk because it can boat streaks and farms solo kills on lights and KMDDs like no tomorrow.
ShadowRat is stronk because it has the magic invisibility box and lemmings don't shoot smth that doesn't have a red box around it.
etc.etc.

So, if you want to balance the game based on your average day in PUGs then yeah, leaderboards tell you a lot.

even so unless its a pure brawl deck (somthing thats just not that good for pug cue) the Hunchback IIC is the prefered comp mech in the tournament at the moment..

and for me the relative ability to farm pugs is the scale i use to say a mech is good... thats what 95% of the game is about anny way at the moment..

[PhoenixFire55]

L3mming2, on 21 July 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

even so unless its a pure brawl deck (somthing thats just not that good for pug cue) the Hunchback IIC is the prefered comp mech in the tournament at the moment..

Because it is the only mech with a combination of adequate tonnage for weapons, high hardpoints and most importantly for Canyons - jump jets.

All-in-all if you want an honest opinion on a Hunch-IIC ... its garbage. Because a 50t mech with a top speed of whooping 95kph and hitboxes of a barn is just that ... garbage. In a 1v1 duel vs a decent 50/55t brawler it sux regardless of what build it has.

L3mming2, on 21 July 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

and for me the relative ability to farm pugs is the scale i use to say a mech is good... thats what 95% of the game is about anny way at the moment..

True I guess. Still, the question many people already asked remains ... what should be used for balancing? Comp? PUGs? I doubt either one is the answer tho.

[-Vompo-]

Best mechs for each tonnage category according to me. I don't pilot all of these mechs regularly but I own most of them and this list is composed from my personal experiences from piloting or fighting these mechs.

100 Kodiak 3
95 Banshee 3M
90 Mauler MX90
85 Battlemaster 2C
80 Gargoyle (80 tonners are all pretty terrible)
75 Black knight and Timberwolf (I'll call it a tie. I am more worried fighting a BLK but prefer to pilot a TBR)
70 Grasshopper and Warhammer
65 Ebon jaguar
60 Mad dog (I know many would say Quickdraw)
55 Stormcrow
50 Many different Hunchbacks and Nova (This might be the hardest one for me)
45 Blackjack 1X (I suppose it could be another BJ as easily)
40 Viper
35 Arctic cheetah or the Oxide (Yeah Oxide is huge but the firepower is still something to behold)
20-30 Locust 1E

Best assault mech and at the same time the best mech in the game is currently Kodiak 3. Without the Kodiak 3 I'd say IS has better assault mechs but Kodiak 3 makes it even and then some.

Heavies are even. Both sides have few really good ones. Couple of solid ones and then there are those mechs that you rarely see.

Mediums I'd give to Clans. Medium vs medium fights I'd still give to IS so IS might have a slight edge in scouting if both sides are just going for kills. Against lights and heavies and assaults I think the Clan mediums have the advantage.

Lights... Honestly I don't know. Probably even. Light vs light I'd give it to IS but against heavier opponents the arctic cheeta becomes the dominant mech.

Just my personal opinions so feel free to disagree.

[Elizander]

DovisKhan, on 21 July 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

You just forgot to mention that 3 IS ERLL do the same as 2 CLPL, but they weight more, have more heat and more burn time, so yes, Clan is way ahead The only place where IS is better than Clans is medium weight ballistics, namely UAC5, 3 UAC5 Jager will shred pretty much any mech its weight class it stares at, but that's at medium range, at 800+ poke distance Clans outshine IS by a long shot because their lasers are simply much better

This issue with the Jagger is mostly due to it not being given ballistic velocity quirks. The default projectile speeds in MWO are floaty (and quite unfun for me to watch a mech slowly walk out of the way of an AC/20 shell) so despite the Jager having higher firepower I do prefer other mechs that can just make my bullets mean something at longer range.

[iliketurtles87]

Thanks for the answer. I dont say that IS mech in generally are bad. Blackknight, Warhammer are really good, aswell the Blackjack and Catapult. But the point is i feel your are really hard restricited in possible builds (good builds) on the IS-Side (I can mainly speak for Aussaults). As example. you cant use XL in 90 % for IS-Assault, nor you can use AC20 and a XL, not even dual ultra ac5 do fit...

I really hope PGI gonna do a tech-jump in the near future... LFE and new weapons would just renew the game a little bit.

thats my personal opinion

@Vompo: MX90 what build do you mean ? 5 AC5 ?

@DovisKhan: 3 Erll ===> yes thats nice but what about the Medium and small Lasers? 6 c-Mpls > 6 Mpls and dont forget the IS junk-small Lasers

Edited by iliketurtles87, 21 July 2016 - 02:58 AM.

[DovisKhan]

Kmieciu, on 21 July 2016 - 02:07 AM, said:

I'm also an IS dakka fan. I run JM6-DD (3UAC5), CPLT-K2 (twin AC10 or UAC5), CTF-4X (2UAC5 2AC5) and even odballs like Dragon-1N, AC2 BJ-1, SHD-2H 2AC5+AC2.
But the highest damage I ever did in one mech was the 2xUAC10 5xERSL Ebon Jaguar. About 1400 damage in quick play.

That's real nice, the highest I got was 1300~ in a MAD, 1400-1500 in a KGC, I always carry 11-12 tons of ammo in that beast, so with ~80% accuracy that's pretty much the max i can achieve


Dragon does look like something I'd buy when I have enough spare cbills when I module up all the mechs I own



Haven't tried your Jag build, i used a CUAC20 with some lasers, to carry more ammo, cause with double cuac10 and some smalls you're not left with much tons for ammo and I usually survive long enugh to expend all

[DovisKhan]

Elizander, on 21 July 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

This issue with the Jagger is mostly due to it not being given ballistic velocity quirks. The default projectile speeds in MWO are floaty (and quite unfun for me to watch a mech slowly walk out of the way of an AC/20 shell) so despite the Jager having higher firepower I do prefer other mechs that can just make my bullets mean something at longer range.

AC5 hits te sweet spot for me, it's intuitive to lead, so I can hit heavies at optimum consistently, further is a waste of ammo due to damage fall off and missed shots


Agree on AC20 though

[Lily from animove]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 July 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

How many quirks must Inner Shere get
Before you call it OP
How many seals must a tryhard club
Before they start to nerf skill
And how many times must the LRMs fly
Before they're forever banned?

The answer, my friend, is simply gitgud
The answer is simply gitgud.

How much tears must the medicore gamer cry
to still get his fixes changes?

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 July 2016 - 03:17 AM.

[Kmieciu]

DovisKhan, on 21 July 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

Haven't tried your Jag build, i used a CUAC20 with some lasers, to carry more ammo, cause with double cuac10 and some smalls you're not left with much tons for ammo and I usually survive long enugh to expend all

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...97b633a4371ffa4
C-UAC10s are great because each ton gives you 200 potential damage. You can side-poke, shoot a burst of 40 damage within 0.5 seconds then retreat. That's actually faster than the duration of IS LPL.
When someone tries to brawl you, the ER Smalls work better than IS Mediums (same damage, 1 less heat). 25 damage alpha for just 2.5 tonnes.

C-UAC10 rounds move at 950 m/s. That means they take 0.56 second to reach their optimum range. They are not optimal for shooting mechs running 100+ kph, but work pretty well against an enemy that tries to trade with you from cover. At 500 meters you can out-trade pretty much any clan or IS laser vomit mech. And at close range you can out-DPS them.

There is a reason, why 4xUAC10 Kodiak is considered the best meta-mech. It just work in most situations.
Just like 2xUAC10 HunchieIIC, Timber or a Warhawk.

Edited by Kmieciu, 21 July 2016 - 03:25 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

iliketurtles87, on 21 July 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

Thanks for the answer. I dont say that IS mech in generally are bad. Blackknight, Warhammer are really good, aswell the Blackjack and Catapult. But the point is i feel your are really hard restricited in possible builds (good builds) on the IS-Side (I can mainly speak for Aussaults). As example. you cant use XL in 90 % for IS-Assault, nor you can use AC20 and a XL, not even dual ultra ac5 do fit...

Somewhat restricted yes due to the nature of fixed harpoints vs omnipods. But clan omnimechs are restricted in a similar way by fixed engine sizes, fixed JJs and fixed Endo/FF etc. Some happen to have good combinations of those (Timber), while some have terrible (Summoner, Gargoyle, KitFox, Adder etc.). I'd say there are more clan omnimechs that are terrible than those that are good.

iliketurtles87, on 21 July 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

I really hope PGI gonna do a tech-jump in the near future... LFE and new weapons would just renew the game a little bit.

Renew ... yes. Make it better ... hm?

iliketurtles87, on 21 July 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

thats my personal opinion

As all our posts are. As I said, plz don't view my posts as bashing or anything. I might seem abrasive and know-it-all, but I'm a nice guy ... really ... outside of PUGs anyway lol

[Juodas Varnas]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 July 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

I'd say there are more clan omnimechs that are terrible than those that are good.

Well, there are more IS battlemechs that are absolute garbage than those that are good.

****, there are IS battlemechs that are absolute garbage when compared to the "terrible omnis" hahaha.