176 replies to this topic

[Mekwarrior]

Light mechs such as the Jenners and fast mechs such as the Cicadas (and probably many others too) are just so extremely weak and easy to hit that they are almost useless except for perhaps an MC artillery/air strike spinner and then only from very long range but that isn't what I want to play Mechwarrior for.

In the scout role if you even see any enemies you get such heavy damage that you are not much use in the rest of the game.

Players of heavier mechs know that the lights are very weak indeed because they always target them first to get an easy kill.

I want a fast or light mech that is actually useful to play the game, not just launch MC strikes because it's too weak for anything else.

Please PGI do something to improve light mechs such as an armour upgrade and don't forget the Cicada which is supposed to be heavier but seems just as fragile.

I am talking about in General quick play gameplay.


I think I know how lights and fast mechs got nerfed so terribly. Lots of medium/heavy/assault players alt tab into the game a couple of minutes late or more after their team is out of sight and they run into 2 lights and they are destroyed after a while so they go on the forum and rage and complain, so they nerf lights so they can't even win in this situation.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 20 July 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[MrMadguy]

For you and for all others, who complain about Light nerfs. Lights aren't intended to openly attack enemies and have never been. If you got used to such kind of gameplay and now cry, that you want to play exactly like this - then you should know, that you have never been intended to play Lights this way, cuz it's actually unintended cheat/exploit. It happened only due to PGI, being incompetent, not knowing limitations their game engine (at which speed/size ratio quantization/aiming problems start to happen) and simple rules of game design, such as responsiveness of game (i.e. player should be sure, whether he has hit target or not - not guess it) - as the result, allowing such pure cheats/exploits, as invulnerable Lights, to happen.

Edited by MrMadguy, 19 July 2016 - 12:50 AM.

[Mekwarrior]

So what is a light or fast mech for then?

Lights can't be used for scouting (near critical damage or worse if you see the enemy).
Can't be used for supporting at medium/close range since they are prime easy to hit targets now.

Maybe long range sniper or MC artillery strike launcher but that's not what I wanted to play MWO for.


Also the reason you gave is exactly why I got a Cicada instead since it's supposed to be a heavier mech (not a light) but that is so fragile it's no different than a light and it seems to be very easy to hit.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 12:58 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

So what is a light or fast mech for then?

Lights can't be used for scouting.
Can't be used for supporting at medium/close range since they are prime easy to hit targets now.

Maybe long range sniper or MC artillery strike launcher but that's not what I wanted to play MWO for.

Lights can be used as scouts, cappers and supporters. You just can't openly engage with enemies - i.e. facetank them. Having high speed, survivability and firepower - is too much for one 'Mech. When one 'Mech have all this attributes at once - it turns into OP cheat and obsoletes all other 'Mechs. We have Assaults, who intended to have high survivability, Heavies, who intended to have high firepower. And speed - is enough for Lights.

[Pjwned]

If by "general use" you mean charging headlong into a group of enemies who all see you and are facing you, then yeah I guess they're too fragile for that.

[Mekwarrior]

Speed was enough, just enough, only if you were skilled, but now they are massive chunky things, massive targets.
They have no survive-ability.

They can't retreat from seeing any more than one mech without very heavy damage.

When supporting friendly mechs they are now prime prime targets because they are such easy kills.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 01:07 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

Speed was enough, just enough, only if you were skilled, but now they are massive chunky things, massive targets.
They have no survive-ability.

They can't retreat from seeing any more than one mech without very heavy damage.

When supporting friendly mechs they are now prime prime targets because they are such easy kills.

Lights have never been intended to have speed lag shield, sorry.

[El Bandito]

Cicadas are not fragile for a 40 tonner. Not only they are fast, most of them got +10 structure quirks all around. In fact, I am surprised that PGI is not nerf-touching the Cada.

[Mekwarrior]

It looked ok on paper but it seems no less fragile than the lights in gameplay.

Try playing as one, specs on paper can give a different impression from what is is like to play.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 01:15 AM.

[MrMadguy]

El Bandito, on 19 July 2016 - 01:09 AM, said:

Cicadas are not fragile for a 40 tonner. Not only they are fast, most of them got +10 structure quirks all around. In fact, I am surprised that PGI is not nerf-touching the Cada.

Yeah, Cicadas are one of the biggest Medium offenders due to having size/speed/survivability of Light 'Mech, but firepower of Medium one. ER-LL-ones - are cancer of MWO. As I've already said, there should be balance between size, speed, firepower, range and survivability. 'Mechs, that are able to have 100500kph, shoot you from 100500 meters, while keeping this distance due to speed (see above), can solely kill you due to enough firepower and being invulnerable at the same time - have to be eliminated from this game.

Edited by MrMadguy, 19 July 2016 - 01:17 AM.

[jss78]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

So what is a light or fast mech for then?

Lights can't be used for scouting (near critical damage or worse if you see the enemy).
Can't be used for supporting at medium/close range since they are prime easy to hit targets now.

Maybe long range sniper or MC artillery strike launcher but that's not what I wanted to play MWO for.


Also the reason you gave is exactly why I got a Cicada instead since it's supposed to be a heavier mech (not a light) but that is so fragile it's no different than a light and it seems to be very easy to hit.

Might be because I suck at the play style, but I find Cicadas get gunned down quite quick if you try and do the small-laser-ACH shtick with them. You're just a bit too big and fragile, and while fast, not fast enough to compensate. A bit like Phoenix Hawk in this respect.

I find Cicadas make nice skirmishers who peek and poke on the outskirts of your team's group. What you do have is a great speed for finding firing positions, a decent alpha for a fast mover, and even quite high hardpoints for using cover. Hit and run tactics, don't commit to a brawl.

[Mekwarrior]

Lights have been eliminated from the game for sure. No one would ever want to play as one, light pilots will either be leaving or playing as assault etc.

For anything but long range sniping and Artillery strikes.

Thanks for you

jss78, on 19 July 2016 - 01:17 AM, said:

Might be because I suck at the play style, but I find Cicadas get gunned down quite quick if you try and do the small-laser-ACH shtick with them. You're just a bit too big and fragile, and while fast, not fast enough to compensate. A bit like Phoenix Hawk in this respect.

I find Cicadas make nice skirmishers who peek and poke on the outskirts of your team's group. What you do have is a great speed for finding firing positions, a decent alpha for a fast mover, and even quite high hardpoints for using cover. Hit and run tactics, don't commit to a brawl.

Thanks for your comment I appreciate it, but I think hiding behind cover the entire game or staying at 1000m+ (only possible on some maps) and sniping is not what I want to play MWO for.

Also you would get a lot of rage for not helping team then perceived as trying to hide at the end of the game.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 01:24 AM.

[jss78]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 01:20 AM, said:

Thanks for your comment I appreciate it, but I think hiding behind cover the entire game or staying at 1000m+ and sniping is not what I want to play MWO for.

Not suggesting the 1000m+ thing though, maybe more like a medium-range build. CDA-2A with 6 ML's with +20% range from quirks and a module, something like this. Works well for most situations. If they can see you and aren't slow like a Dire Wolf, you most probably do want to use cover.

[Mekwarrior]

Thanks but I just find standing behind cover and popping up occasionally the whole game, every game is boring. That's why I don't play other games.

MWO is forcing whole teams into this play style though, it's making me loose interest in playing.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 01:27 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

I'll quote myself from a different thread ...

PhoenixFire55, on 19 July 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

Honestly "lore-wise" lights shouldn't be fighting all that much, or at all. However as this game fails to provide any kind of alternative goal for them (and please don't give me any cool stories how you need to cap in conquest and assault) it has to give them the ability to fight, which was just nerfed to the ground due to rescale on all lights except the Locust.

I don't think lights are too bad right now, its rather everything else is too good. When you have a Nova with 12 SPLs that does pinpoint 72 dmg to any component or smth like a Kodiak that spits out ~300 damage in 10 seconds or something like a +50% turn rate on a 70t mech that allows it to turn just as fast as light mech can circle him etc.

Mechs (even lights) aren't supposed to be agile, this ain't Hawken or whatever-gundam-game. Combat should be all about positioning not about who can peek-a-boo-alpha and turn away faster, and lights should naturally have their place in such combat due to speed advantage and easier repositioning.

[Mekwarrior]

There is no role for lights as you say. I don't want to hide behind something for most of the game to get the occasional shot. Sorry it's just boring.

Despite what heavy/assault pilots say they are always targeting lights first when there are lots of other targets because they are such easy kills in every game.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 01:37 AM.

[Besh]

MrMadguy, on 19 July 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

For you and for all others, who complain about Light nerfs. Lights aren't intended to openly attack enemies and have never been. If you got used to such kind of gameplay and now cry, that you want to play exactly like this - then you should know, that you have never been intended to play Lights this way, cuz it's actually unintended cheat/exploit. It happened only due to PGI, being incompetent, not knowing limitations their game engine (at which speed/size ratio quantization/aiming problems start to happen) and simple rules of game design, such as responsiveness of game (i.e. player should be sure, whether he has hit target or not - not guess it) - as the result, allowing such pure cheats/exploits, as invulnerable Lights, to happen.

Wait U wut ???

What game exactly are you playing ? Or rather, WHEN were you playing it ?

Edited by Besh, 19 July 2016 - 01:44 AM.

[jss78]

PhoenixFire55, on 19 July 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

I'll quote myself from a different thread ...

Good points there ... Honestly I always found the SL/SPL-boat ACH, flying under a +5 Lag Shield of Destiny, the single dumbest thing I ever saw in this game. It's like a transplant from a generic twitch shooter, not a battlemech to me. Will admit to being bitter, they've touched me in all the wrong places, many times over.

However, I'll admit that if you take this role from the light 'mechs, they have very little left, as scouting etc. is not really a thing in the game. I guess PGI sees this, as they haven't released a light in ages.

(But I'd still pay $20 for a Stinger and/or Wasp pack.)

[kesmai]

I switched from lolcusts to trollmandos.
Until *the one who's name can not be said* nerfs those.
The deaths knell is a little evil troll straight out of hell and worth every cent.
The lurmando is a little annoying peace of .... and fun a s *feces*.

[Figure 11]

Odd, don't struggle to get kills and a decent score in my Locust?