206 replies to this topic

[3xnihilo]

DAYLEET, on 22 July 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

is it shaming to point out that OP has 7 games in light, did OK in them and yet he write a book about improving light? The pros residing in this thread http://mwomercs.com/...tire-playstyle/ Those with REALLY good ratios/stats strongly believe their stats(which are really good already) should be better. Maybe they should become better if they want to be better. I do just fine with lights when i dont fkup and i dont think they need more firepower. Why are the people with high KDR and WR people asking for stronger lights? makes no sense. Everygame have easymode class, in other games people who play them gets ridiculed, here everyone wants to be easymode and do good while licking windows.

It might only be my experience, but with very little effort I can pull a 400-500 damage 2-3 kill round with a Zeus. My Kodiak dies early because I am lousy in it, but I still manage 300+ damage in it most rounds. My Archer 2r has my highest w/l and kdr, just ahead of my BJ 1x. It is far easier to pull of those scores in those mechs than it is to score the same in a light. Not that I can't score high with lights, but it takes more concentration and effort to do so. The argument that is being presented is that lights use speed and agility to make up for lack of armor and smaller fire power in combat. Right now the speed/agility is not quite enough to make lights as effective as heavier mechs. No one is asking for a Jenner to tank as well as an atlas. What we are saying is that they have a huge CT that their current level of mobility does not compensate for, so they need some buffs to stay viable. As long as "blow everything up" is the objective, lights need a good way to do that. If the game were to evolve to the state where other roles were effective, then we could talk about lights not needing to be as effective in combat. Also, I would make sure the people that you are claiming do well in lights, don't do better in heavier mechs, because that is the argument: Heavy mechs outperform light ones, so the recent nerfs on lights were not called for and the rescale should have included some kind of compensation for the larger easier to hit lights we have now.

*disclaimer: Since you are checking leaderboards, I have been severely limited on time the past month since I work in construction and this is my busy season and my computer broke earlier this week so I have not been on a ton. Just in case I need to defend my playing habits for my point to be valid.

[4rcs1ne]

DAYLEET, on 22 July 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

is it shaming to point out that OP has 7 games in light, did OK in them and yet he write a book about improving light? The pros residing in this thread http://mwomercs.com/...tire-playstyle/ Those with REALLY good ratios/stats strongly believe their stats(which are really good already) should be better. Maybe they should become better if they want to be better. I do just fine with lights when i dont fkup and i dont think they need more firepower. Why are the people with high KDR and WR people asking for stronger lights? makes no sense. Everygame have easymode class, in other games people who play them gets ridiculed, here everyone wants to be easymode and do good while licking windows.

Some of us have something called real life and can't play 3+ hours a day.

Edited by Matt2496, 22 July 2016 - 05:30 PM.

[Chagatay]

Lights are ok. Probably the only thing that is needed is more dynamic type objectives that require lots of movement and more small force engagements (unlike deathball*).

*which is favored pretty much everywhere except huge maps on conquest.

Edited by Chagatay, 22 July 2016 - 05:35 PM.

[sneeking]

Absolutely, it's supposed to fun after all it's a game.

That match was only my 2nd attempt in a light mech this time round. I've been away and those leaderboards either did not exist last time. Or if they did it would appear they have been reset and i didn't know about them.

[Darian DelFord]

Honestly.......... Light balance went out the window when heavies and assaults got all their agility and more importantly structure quirks.

I mean Look at the Atlas structure quirks on its legs....

Tweak heavies agility and decouple agility from ENGINE size and you will be pretty damn close to all lights being alot more viable than they are nowl.

[DAYLEET]

Darian DelFord, on 22 July 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Honestly.......... Light balance went out the window when heavies and assaults got all their agility and more importantly structure quirks.

I mean Look at the Atlas structure quirks on its legs....

Tweak heavies agility and decouple agility from ENGINE size and you will be pretty damn close to all lights being alot more viable than they are nowl.

I blame removal of the 3/3/3/3 rule. Reinstate that and suddenly good lights will be the deciding factor of the outcome of most match like they used to. More able to run off since they need to move all the time.

Edited by DAYLEET, 22 July 2016 - 06:34 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

davoodoo, on 22 July 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

They are combat effective, against same tonnage.

How do you expect for 20-35 ton mech to outgun lets say, crab, marauder or fatlas.
But still i have 1e locust with max engine and 6 mlas, if i dropped engine for dhs i would probably have something close to 6 mpl crab with less armor.

Im not even sure how could they get more combat viable unless you really go overboard with quirks, but then enter prenerf locust...

No one said anything about a light outgunning a heavier mech. Heavies do and should outgun lights.

Lights should be able to effectively harass heavier enemies by using their speed, agility, and small size to avoid damage while dealing respectable damage of their own. Many lights lost agility and gained in size, making them much easier to hit, Most of them weren't overpowered by any means, and some of them were severely underpowered to begin with. None of them were given anything to compensate.

[Nightbird]

Lights are combat viable, they are harder to pilot than other sized mechs so for the same skill level you make more c-bills in other mechs, but I see no reason to buff these just because of that. If c-bills is the issue, give them a damage c-bill bonus. For combat they are supposed to be the weakest at so no thank you.

[Chagatay]

DAYLEET, on 22 July 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

I blame removal of the 3/3/3/3 rule. Reinstate that and suddenly good lights will be the deciding factor of the outcome of most match like they used to. More able to run off since they need to move all the time.

I'd like that but ohhhhh the anger.....that would make alot of people very unhappy

[Darian DelFord]

DAYLEET, on 22 July 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

I blame removal of the 3/3/3/3 rule. Reinstate that and suddenly good lights will be the deciding factor of the outcome of most match like they used to. More able to run off since they need to move all the time.

The 3/3/3/3 rule is still in effect... least for the PUB Queue, the MM just has been blowing gaskets lately..... Now in the Group queue.......

[DAYLEET]

Chagatay, on 22 July 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

I'd like that but ohhhhh the anger.....that would make alot of people very unhappy

bleed people one way, bleed people the other way, bleed people but still try to have a nice game with the bleeding rather than a mishmash of "we're just trying to stay alive". Removal game mode choice, per player Tiering valves, removal of 3/3/3/3, all those things were implemented to keep the search time acceptable. Try to patch holes instead of putting a bucket under and using it again.

[El Bandito]

Hans Davion is kicking arse and taking names in his Jenner-IIC, without complaining. You guys should do the same, if you are able to.

[DAYLEET]

Darian DelFord, on 22 July 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

The 3/3/3/3 rule is still in effect... least for the PUB Queue, the MM just has been blowing gaskets lately..... Now in the Group queue.......

yesterday, many games with 5 heavies and 4 meds (1assault 2 light)for exemple. Well thats a good news, people are playing meds! lol

Sometimes it was 5 meds, id like to say thats cool and keep things interesting, it only beat, harder-to-play mech down.

Edited by DAYLEET, 22 July 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

Hans Davion is kicking arse and taking names in his Jenner-IIC, without complaining. You guys should do the same, if you are able to.

Until he gets within range of a heavy or an assault who knows how to aim and takes out his CT.

There is a reason he runs when any medium or up turns on him.... I know I do the same thing when I play the build he is using right now.

One of the major problems with lights and Jenners... is the re-scale put a large damper on knife fighting.... I have been trying it in my D for the last several days.......... Its almost a lost cause.

[Trauglodyte]

How do you define "viable"? Answering this, individually, will indicate whether what you're actually wanting is balance or complete and total BS.

Alistair Winter, on 22 July 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Players who have been playing MWO for years and haven't figured this out, will never figure it out. If you don't agree with the OP, I simply question your ability to analyze games in an intelligent fashion. At this point, it's not really a matter of perspective or experience anymore.

If you think that light mechs are where they need to be, if you think it's simply a matter of picking your targets or keep moving at all times, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

"Oh, but look at this screenshot!"
"Oh, but lights are supposed to scout and cap!"
"Oh, but just make sure you outnumber enemy mechs!"

Currently, the game is about damage. Every mech in the game can deal damage. What most Light ******** are asking for is either the ability to deal more damage or a change so that they take less damage. Sizes of mechs have been balanced out, deal with that and leave the argument alone. At this point, more needs to be added to the game for mechs to accomplish outside of damage and kills. Once that is added to the game, this conversation can be expanded upon. Until that happens, and I keep repeating myself because people don't freaking listen, the onus is on the player base to adapt. Lights don't NEED to rush to the front or go wide around the enemy formation and try to solo rambo slow assaults. Doing that, these days, makes you a freaking bad Light jockey. If you (not you Alistaire) don't understand that, you're bad.

[El Bandito]

Darian DelFord, on 22 July 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

Until he gets within range of a heavy or an assault who knows how to aim and takes out his CT.

There is a reason he runs when any medium or up turns on him.... I know I do the same thing when I play the build he is using right now.

One of the major problems with lights and Jenners... is the re-scale put a large damper on knife fighting.... I have been trying it in my D for the last several days.......... Its almost a lost cause.

Maybe that's how Lights are meant to fight in the first place. Use its mobility to get to the rear of the enemy and take it out, instead of trying to tangle with a Heavy mech head on. Same reason why TF2 Scout does not charge in gun blazing against a Heavy. Same reason why Tracer from Overwatch does not face Bastion head on.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 July 2016 - 07:28 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

Maybe that's how Lights are meant to fight in the first place. Use its mobility to get to the rear of the enemy and take it out, instead of trying to tangle with a Heavy mech head on. Same reason why TF2 Scout does not charge in gun blazing against a Heavy.

That is how they are suppose to be played..... The problem is you still have to get within EXTREME short range to be effective. Lets face it.... any heavy or assault can creme you within 400 meters.

However the rear of the enemy is so buffed with strucuture quirks as well as the agility of most heavies and assaults and its damn near impossible. This is why lights "should" go for the legs. If they try for the rear torso's on a pilot who knows what they are doing they are screwed.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 22 July 2016 - 07:31 PM.

[El Bandito]

Darian DelFord, on 22 July 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

That is how they are suppose to be played..... The problem is you still have to get within EXTREME short range to be effective. Lets face it.... any heavy or assault can creme you within 400 meters.

I play pug matches with my 182 meters optimum range CSPL Nova and my 270 meters max range CSRM6 HBK-IIC-B. And they are pretty damn slow compared to Jenners. I am not complaining cause I know when to engage, and when not to. And if the map is favored towards long range, then that's my own fault for bringing in a brawler--I either bide my time or coordinate a push, then benefit from the chaos that ensues.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 July 2016 - 07:35 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

I play pug matches with my 182 meters optimum range CSPL Nova and my 270 meters max range CSRM6 HBK-IIC-B. And they are pretty damn slow compared to Jenners. I am not complaining cause I know when to engage, and when not to. And if the map is favored towards long range, then that's my own fault for bringing in a brawler--I either bide my time or coordinate a push, then benefit from the chaos that ensues.

Both of which eat light mechs (

[El Bandito]

Darian DelFord, on 22 July 2016 - 07:37 PM, said:

Both of which eat light mechs (

And both will get screwed if a Heavy or Assault comes calling due to slow speed. At least most Lights can dictate engagement on their terms.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 July 2016 - 07:45 PM.