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Light Mechs Should Be Combat Viable Too!


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#81 TWIAFU

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:09 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 July 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

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What he said.





There is no way we can have stable 25% Light queue. If we make Lights just as easy to play as Heavies for the average players, then actual good Light pilots will basically seal club the pug queue with their improved Lights.


We do that already.

#82 Bobzilla

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:47 AM

Just one of the many core problems.

All mechs are to be equal. A 25t should perform as well as a 100t, they don't.

It's fine for FW where tonnage kind of matters. But they can't balance FW and QP using the same mechs.

#83 TWIAFU

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:50 AM

View PostBobzilla, on 23 July 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

Just one of the many core problems.

All mechs are to be equal. A 25t should perform as well as a 100t, they don't.

It's fine for FW where tonnage kind of matters. But they can't balance FW and QP using the same mechs.



Oh, you want Hawkken then. Dust off your controller, being ported to PS4.

Enjoy!

#84 Weeny Machine

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 04:40 AM

View PostTWIAFU, on 23 July 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:


We do that already [edit reference to:actual good Light pilots will basically seal club the pug queue].


Honestly, normally I do not care for stats. However, when someone posts such a big-mouthed statement I'd like to see what awesome score this guy has and how much I suck.
Seeing then an average match score of said person in lights of 175 while I feel bad about my score which dropped to measly 205 after 10 horrible matches were my teams got wiped in record time...man, I have to tell you: be more humble.

#85 davoodoo

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 04:40 AM

View PostKaeb Odellas, on 22 July 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:


No one said anything about a light outgunning a heavier mech. Heavies do and should outgun lights.

Lights should be able to effectively harass heavier enemies by using their speed, agility, and small size to avoid damage while dealing respectable damage of their own. Many lights lost agility and gained in size, making them much easier to hit, Most of them weren't overpowered by any means, and some of them were severely underpowered to begin with. None of them were given anything to compensate.

And they are already capable of harassing heavier mechs, that is simply not a very effective tactic as merely harassing doesnt produce huge dmg numbers especially with such lackluster weaponry.

Was size increase and quirk nerfs needed, maybe, maybe not but 1 thing for sure, before rescaling lighter lights were useless as raven or jenner could do everything that locust could but better while still being decent combat platforms.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 July 2016 - 04:41 AM.


#86 Spleenslitta

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 05:50 AM

They are combat viable. Just do not stand still and make use of cover.
Link to a non traditional light/fast medium mech tactics guide i made http://mwomercs.com/...-tactics-guide/

Could tell you more but to be quite frank a lot of people don't even read the first sentence of my light mech tactics guide before saying it won't work.
It works...you just gotta spend some time reading and trying it out first....prepare to die a lot till you adapt. That is all.
Good luck.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 23 July 2016 - 05:51 AM.


#87 Y E O N N E

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 09:06 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 July 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

^
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What he said.





There is no way we can have stable 25% Light queue. If we make Lights just as easy to play as Heavies for the average players, then actual good Light pilots will basically seal club the pug queue with their improved Lights.


Because the actual good Heavy/Assault players don't already seal-club in the pug queue, right? That's a weak argument.

#88 El Bandito

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 09:11 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 23 July 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

Because the actual good Heavy/Assault players don't already seal-club in the pug queue, right? That's a weak argument.


What I mean is, if Lights are buffed to Heavy class level, you will see good Light players beat up the pug queue even harder than what a good Heavy pilot can do. In other words, broken.

#89 Y E O N N E

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 09:36 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 July 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:


What I mean is, if Lights are buffed to Heavy class level, you will see good Light players beat up the pug queue even harder than what a good Heavy pilot can do. In other words, broken.


Not necessarily. The limit on the Heavy pilots is that they can't be everywhere at once and they are still susceptible to focus fire. That still applies to Lights, because while they are faster they typically take longer routes to get angles and they still go crunch when multiple people engage it.

Though you'll have to qualify the statement "buffed to Heavy class level," because I don't know what is meant by that. Lights are physically limited from carrying Heavy firepower in most cases. They can't soak the damage like Heavies, at best they can evade it. How, exactly, can they get buffed to Heavy-class performance?

I mean, the Locust pre-July was actually a good model of what the fast Lights should be like. Squishy, agile, weapons that synergize well with the agility and help mitigate the squishiness when played properly, but featuring exploitable weaknesses (SRMs: close range and ammo limits; SPL: close range and low damage; ML: medium range and hot). I never had any problems killing them, even when piloted by top-tier players. They were good. As you go up in tonnage from Locust, you would give up a little bit of speed and agility for a little more armor and firepower.

What I don't want are Jenners or Firestartersor Locusts that can tank for days while delivering 32-72 point strikes dancing in the middle of a group of competent players that are actually shooting at them. Nor do I want Lights that can deliver 30-42 damage from 400+meters coldly and with beam durations under 0.8 seconds Obviously, that would be broken in both cases. But really, that hasn't been a thing in this game for about a year and a half, now.

#90 Darian DelFord

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 11:21 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 23 July 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:


What I don't want are Jenners or Firestartersor Locusts that can tank for days while delivering 32-72 point strikes dancing in the middle of a group of competent players that are actually shooting at them. Nor do I want Lights that can deliver 30-42 damage from 400+meters coldly and with beam durations under 0.8 seconds Obviously, that would be broken in both cases. But really, that hasn't been a thing in this game for about a year and a half, now.



Well you saw what happened last night in the Bog..... Do you really think Jenners are capable of tanking anything? 1 Alpha from your ML Locust opened me up. And we were both full throttle moving during that duel.

I do not think we have to worry about Jenners every being able to tank anything thanks to the great re-scale.

However I would like to have the magnet taken off of my CT.... and the damn REAR Hit Box bug fixed.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 23 July 2016 - 11:29 AM.


#91 Y E O N N E

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 11:29 AM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 23 July 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:



Well you saw what happened last night in the Bog..... Do you really think Jenners are capable of tanking anything? 1 Alpha from your ML Locust opened me up. And we were both full throttle moving during that duel.

I do not think we have to worry about Jenners every being able to tank anything thanks to the great re-scale.


Exactly. Lights lollerskating around tanking infinite damage just doesn't happen, not unless they give crazy armor values to them.

#92 Darian DelFord

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 11:40 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 23 July 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:


Exactly. Lights lollerskating around tanking infinite damage just doesn't happen, not unless they give crazy armor values to them.



I am not for crazy either.... however there is a Reason the Oxide could take an extra hit in this high alpha no lag shield environment.

Hover Jets do not make up for that.

#93 cazidin

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:16 PM

Oh, you Light Pilots. Stick to scouting while us REAL Mechwarriors in Heavy or Assault Mechs fight the enemy. Posted Image

#94 Weeny Machine

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:29 PM

View Postcazidin, on 23 July 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Oh, you Light Pilots. Stick to scouting while us REAL Mechwarriors in Heavy or Assault Mechs fight the enemy. Posted Image


You forgot capping! Posted Image

#95 cazidin

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:30 PM

View PostBush Hopper, on 23 July 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:


You forgot capping! Posted Image


The Mediums do that. Posted Image

#96 Stone Wall

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:49 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 July 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

^
|
|

What he said.





There is no way we can have stable 25% Light queue. If we make Lights just as easy to play as Heavies for the average players, then actual good Light pilots will basically seal club the pug queue with their improved Lights.


Lights don't need buffs. All mechs need to have these quirks and nerfs removed. Skill should be coming from aiming, weapons, and team work.

#97 Darian DelFord

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 05:42 PM

View PostStone Wall, on 23 July 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:


Lights don't need buffs. All mechs need to have these quirks and nerfs removed. Skill should be coming from aiming, weapons, and team work.



We had that.... unfortunately..... some mechs are utter crap without help...

With that being said.... I still think an in depth skill tree is the way to handle this stuff versus random quirks... let the pilot specialize their own mech to the exclusion of other areas.

#98 Y E O N N E

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 05:49 PM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 23 July 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:



We had that.... unfortunately..... some mechs are utter crap without help...

With that being said.... I still think an in depth skill tree is the way to handle this stuff versus random quirks... let the pilot specialize their own mech to the exclusion of other areas.


Some weapons are utter crap without help.

i.e. Inner Sphere Medium laser.

#99 Mekwarrior

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 09:26 PM

Making lights such as the jenner even more useless.

#100 Mystere

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 09:35 PM

View PostBobzilla, on 23 July 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

Just one of the many core problems.

All mechs are to be equal. A 25t should perform as well as a 100t, they don't.

It's fine for FW where tonnage kind of matters. But they can't balance FW and QP using the same mechs.


And which is why the game should also balance via other means:
  • rewards
  • numbers
  • game modes
  • victory conditions
  • tonnage
Plus, the above do not need to be applied only between Mechs. They can also be applied between factions, if you get my drift.




*** cough! ***
10 vs. 12
*** cough! ***

Edited by Mystere, 24 July 2016 - 08:38 AM.






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