869 replies to this topic

[Hunka Junk]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 02 August 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

Can we get the opening post updated with a link to a recording of the roundtable please?

https://www.twitch.t...543393?t=18m16s

[Wulfen]

TWIAFU, on 02 August 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

It always has been since day one. Remember, CW is made PRIMARILY for Unit/Group play.

But now that so many suffer from SSS (Special Snowflake Syndrome) they feel that a whole game mode must change to support them and ignore who the mode was actually made for.

Now, I just point and laugh at complaints from solo players with or without Trial Dropdecks in CW. Jump in the deep end of the pool and ignore the warnings and you deserve to drown. You learn to swim and not complain that the deep end is deep and want it changed to the shallow end.

Will you be laughing when you're sitting in a queue for 49 minutes, or much longer, in a few months? Will you be laughing when we tell you that you deserve it?

[TWIAFU]

MovinTarget, on 02 August 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

I totally agree with you except that the population is so low now we kinda have to give the solo players something to do...

It goes against what the original concept was, endgame-hardmode-teamworkOP but.... this is what we have now...

Anyway, I think his point is somewhat valid. Glory tends to go to the units and not to the factions. I think that is a valid point and one of the reasons there is so much shifting...

Solo has QP.

Solo has "Let's get clubbed!" button for CW too.

Not my problem that they do not read the big fat disclaimer about CW and click OK. Ignorance is no longer a valid excuse when the information/warning is handed to them on a big blue box.

Not my problem pilots use CW as QP with respawn for XP and get rolled.

Not my problem pilots only enter CW when bribed and get rolled.

Yes, we do need population in the game as a whole. We need advertising. We need a lot of things. One thing we do not need, and sorry for the tone and choice of words, is the Group/Unit Queue - MWO's End-Game content - polluted by people that simply refuse to take part in it's core mechanic. We have separate queues for separate playstyles for a reason. Putting solo players in a part of the game designed primarily for the Group harms both the solo and the group.

IF CW is to become a solo playground with respawn, not only does PGI need to totally re-do CW to support them and change CW from top to bottom, it MUST be straight forward to the Group/Unit players that do play CW so they can jump ship and let the ******* rule the roost.

As a Group/Unit player in CW, I have done solo drops before. It was and is the absolute WORSE experience I have ever had in MWO to date.

I will defend and protect my favorite game mode from being ruined by people that are the very antithesis (read: Soloists) of it's intended design, Group play. Why don't they go and try to get soloists allowed into the Group Queue instead.

[TWIAFU]

Omaha, on 02 August 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

What is so Hardcore about seal clubbing pugs all day long and earning MC for it? Oh wait your doing it in an organized fashion my bad.

Ahh, so OK to club seals so long as it is unorganized. So your problem is with teamwork in a teamwork based game mode.

CW Bad
Group Queue bad
QP good.

You dont have to ask PGI to delete your account for you, you can do it all yourself.

So, money where your mouth is or just more word vomit?

Not that it matters, you quit.

[TWIAFU]

Wulfen, on 02 August 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Will you be laughing when you're sitting in a queue for 49 minutes, or much longer, in a few months? Will you be laughing when we tell you that you deserve it?

DOOOoooOOMmmMMmmm!

Heard it before and will again.

I NEVER see some BS 49 min wait time in CW. Want to know why? Has something to do with playing in a group...

You know, what CW was designed for, groups.

But, enjoy your solo wait time of 50min, I'll have two drops done by then. That I AM laughing at.

Edited by TWIAFU, 02 August 2016 - 10:23 AM.

[Wulfen]

TWIAFU, on 02 August 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

DOOOoooOOMmmMMmmm!

Heard it before and will again.

I NEVER see some BS 49 min wait time in CW. Want to know why? Has something to do with playing in a group...

You know, what CW was designed for, groups.

But, enjoy your solo wait time of 50min, I'll have two drops done by then. That I AM laughing at.

And they had a round table specifically for FP because it's doing just fine. Got it.

[Jables McBarty]

TWIAFU, on 02 August 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

You know, what CW was designed for, groups.

Design Flaw #1

Well, maybe not #1, but it was definitely a flawed premise, building an entire game mode around unit play and expecting it to catch on to the wider playerbase.

[Kyrie]

I am starting to believe that PvE is the long-term hope and salvation for the concept of FP. I wasn't convinced before, but now I'm sold.

The 3025 reboot of MPBT was going to be primarily PvE with a random chance of a PvP encounter; that randomness was built-in as a safeguard for potential issues such as manipulation of results. If FP is re-factored along the same lines, almost all of the current issues can be done away with, specifically: queues.

[PFC Carsten]

Some people in this thread seem to be more part of the problem with their attitude than part of the solution with bright ideas.

[MovinTarget]

PFC Carsten, on 02 August 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Some people in this thread seem to be more part of the problem with their attitude than part of the solution with bright ideas.

It comes from everyone feeling burnt and many wanting to point the finger at some other group.

TBH I don't recall CW ever really being advertised as solo-friendly. The original concept (FWIW) seemed to be catered towards teams (not necessarily units). Feel free to cite any references from back in the early days to state otherwise but this just circles back to what I have said:

Everyone got burned because FP is not exactly what anyone wanted/imagined. Its one thing to drop with strangers in QP and get clubbed in 5-7 minutes. Its entirely different when you are asked to suffer through the clubbing for 20-25 minutes after a 20 minute wait...

And yet some people still do it.

You don't need to justify yourselves, that is your choice, just like I gave up my freedom to join up with a unit and no longer have control of where I drop.

All I can say is that if you want to:
Make more money
Level up your faction/merc rep faster
Win on a more consistent basis

All these things are more likely if you are willing to group up, coordinate, and listen to the DC.

Again many refuse to do this, and they have their reasons, but just like those who try to play the game with a console-type controller... you made your own bed.

Here's a lore perspective: The enemy has just landed, will your government send 12 random dudes to defend against them? How would that turn out?

Yes, they need a mode for solo players, perhaps a 1 v 1 mode, but if it is hard to get 12 solo players to play nice in QP, how can you expect it work in FW?

[AnTi90d]

PFC Carsten, on 02 August 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Some people in this thread seem to be more part of the problem with their attitude than part of the solution with bright ideas.

PGI ignores any and all bright ideas because the guy in charge doesn't understand what makes gameplay fun and rewarding, on its own, and is too egotistical to take anyone's suggestions seriously. Feedback is only gathered to make the populace feel like it had a say. Something billed as a roundtable turns out to be a sales pitch.

MovinTarget, on 02 August 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

All these things are more likely if you are willing to group up, coordinate, and listen to the DC.

Again many refuse to do this, and they have their reasons, but just like those who try to play the game with a console-type controller... you made your own bed.

The blame for this sits largely on PGI's shoulders. Their LFG isn't functional unless you're in a faction that is teeming with members. If you go east or south, you could sit in LFG, unnoticed, from one ceasefire, through an entire phase, and into the next ceasefire.

It would really make sense that, since the IS has a defense pact against invading clans, we should be able to form groups from LFG from all IS factions and only take that group into defensive operations against the clan. Since we don't have that, the options are to 1.) give up and not play FP, or 2.) play FP and get facerolled by units.

On top of that, they've been unable and unwilling to normalize the populations of any faction and even made it worse with Phase 3 by making the mercenary career have its own skill tree while totally ignoring the people that have max'd out the loyalist tree. There are literally zero forms of population control. People have shown they are able and willing to go to the factions with the highest populations and take the reduced payout as if it didn't matter to them.

-----

The fault is PGI's, alone, and they are the ones who can either fix it or let it continue to fail.

[Omaha]

There is teamwork in any gamemode. We are in this place because there was no place for all the playstyles of the community. They added scouting, which was pretty good. But now the units complain because of LongTom. Which was the one way that I felt like I actually did something to help protect my factions planets. But there was no rewarding the player for protecting his factions planets unless you are a unit based player, and a unit owning that planet. Because I don't play in a unit, I don't have the skills to slaughter a 12 man organized unit. Why should that make me null and invalid as a player of a faction?

Where is the player motivation to actually play Factionwarfare? There is no cause to any of the happenings here in Factionwarfare. No reason to stay in one faction, infact it's actually rewarded as such.

There one measly paragraph about all the the factions when choosing them. That's it. Nothing else, None of the choosing a faction matters at all, it's all about what unit you play in. That's my problem with it.

In a mode that was supposed to be for the community to wage war in, it's a rather one sided approach to it. Go unit or go home.

Then when you try to point out some reasons why yourself as a player see some problems with this mode as a player, within the community. It comes down to, "oh it's because your getting slaughtered", or "Oh you need your hand held", or "Oh I spend more money on this game so I deserve this mode". WTF really? Your worried about how you favorite game mode could be ruined, I get that. I don't want to see this organized unit thing ruined either. But there should be rewarding and motivational reasons why players should pick, or units pick factions. There should be a way for everyone to enjoy this experience of battling factions, there should be a way for everyone to matter here. Not just the people that want your particular style of unit based play.

What does it actually mean to expand your factions territory? Other then snagging a snazzy unit tag on it. What does it mean for the faction you play for? Why should other units, or players of that SAME faction, even care? There is no reasons, are there? You see what I'm saying here? 228 owns such and such planets in JF, why should RJF even care about their planets? There is a conflict here. They both are JADE FALCON. It boils down to unit personal agendas, and not about faction wide agendas.

Just using those unit name to point out a flaw here, those 2 units may or may not care about eachother, and the planets they hold.

Maybe some one can help me out here. If a unit owns a planet, and a different unit defend that planet from attack does that planet flip to the unit that defended it? Sorry I don't fully understand all the stuff in faction warfare. Because I don't play it enough. I really want to.

Edited by Omaha, 02 August 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Omaha, on 02 August 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

There is teamwork in any gamemode. We are in this place because there was no place for all the playstyles of the community. They added scouting, which was pretty good. But now the units complain because of LongTom. Which was the one way that I felt like I actually did something to help protect my factions planets. But there was no rewarding the player for protecting his factions planets unless you are a unit based player, and a unit owning that planet. Because I don't play in a unit, I don't have the skills to slaughter a 12 man organized unit. Why should that make me null and invalid as a player of a faction?

Where is the player motivation to actually play Factionwarfare? There is no cause to any of the happenings here in Factionwarfare. No reason to stay in one faction, infact it's actually rewarded as such.

There one measly paragraph about all the the factions when choosing them. That's it. Nothing else, None of the choosing a faction matters at all, it's all about what unit you play in. That's my problem with it.

In a mode that was supposed to be for the community to wage war in, it's a rather one sided approach to it. Go unit or go home.

I honestly don't have an issue with rewarding individuals for helping capture/defend a planet. I can totally understand that.

[MovinTarget]

yes, if a unit "out-defends" the owner of a planet then they take the planet.

[Omaha]

Ok then thanks for pointing that out for me. Since I play the way I play in there, I never really got that part as I don't see the impact of my actions as a solo player. Other then scouting mode.

So there is a in faction battle of sorts. To decide the outcome of the owner. So your really at war with your own factions units as well....

Kinda just further solidifies my argument. Your not only at war with other factions, but even your factions units as well. So why do factions matter at all?

Edited by Omaha, 02 August 2016 - 03:22 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Omaha, on 02 August 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ok then thanks for pointing that out for me. Since I play the way I play in there, I never really got that part as I don't see the impact of my actions as a solo player. Other then scouting mode.

So there is a in faction battle of sorts. To decide the outcome of the owner. So your really at war with your own factions units as well....

Kinda just further solidifies my argument. Your not only at war with other factions, but even your factions units as well. So why do factions matter at all?

Well, from a lore standpoint, it still makes sense as even though you are all in the same faction, you are constantly striving to "outdo" your peers. This would equate to greater glory/accolades and preferential treatment from the government I suppose.

clanners would totally be all about competing indirectly against others in their faction...

Edited by MovinTarget, 02 August 2016 - 03:34 PM.

[Omaha]

Yes but I cant exaclty challenge a leader of a planet to claim it, nor the leader of a unit in my faction to claim leadership can I? Or a position in the fictional government of lore.

Indirectly I do, and well I try anyways, at least at a solo level.

We are still members of the same faction all for the same outcome, It feels like it's lost something, even if there is a similar way lore handles things. It still feels too unit focused In my eyes. But It I guess really doesn't matter the voice of one player.

It's the same the way the game handles one single player. It's of no consequence.

Edited by Omaha, 02 August 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[Ibrandul Mike]

Not every PUG match is a slaughter. Not every solo drop is a bad experience. Some people here make it sound like that....

You all should know that there are full team (not unit!) drops and PUGs. Nothing in between. You either have your 12 (4 for scouting) or it is a PUG. For all that use the acronym and don't know what it means: pick up group.
Can someone explain to me why a unit has by default to be better than a group of friends which might even train together? I am not saying that the group in a unit might not be preferable, because they could achieve the TAG and therefore you could see what they are doing.
I don't say there are no problems. There are more than enough. One of the most problematic is the lack of definitions. Why? Because 10 people mean 11 different things with the same words. There is no way to find a solution that way. Another one is the groupings...
MERCs vs. Loyalists vs. Freelancer
Solo vs. Group vs. Unit (yes there are 3 groups)
Lore vs. Playability vs. Technically achieveable
Long Term vs. Short Term.
Long Tom vs. The Rest (sorry, had to be)

I like FP. But not all the time. Not every drop. Not the wait times (more or less). What I don't like is the talking against each other instead of with each other. And yes to a certain degree I do the same with this post...

[MovinTarget]

you're right having all the same unit tags doesn't guarantee victory, but teamwork (of 8-12) will trump 12 players running about doing their own thing just about any day. when you drop with strangers, this is what you often get...

Edited by MovinTarget, 02 August 2016 - 04:31 PM.

[Ibrandul Mike]

Pleasecjust stop saying that 12 random Players can't play together. My most accomplishing drop so far was with a complete PUG against an 8 man + solos. It was so accomplishing because we won clearly. The players in the PUG were mostly unit members. But not 2 people of the same unit. But we played together as a group. And yes it was that way only one time. But it still shows me that it is possible.
You don't need single unit drops. You need people being able to play as a team. And yes you need a certain skill Level (which I don't have at the moment to be honest). Getting FP to groups or even units only does not solve all problems. Reducing the buckets without getting more people in the game mode can only be a short term solution.
We need more people for FP. We need them to stay in FP. We need them to be happy with the game mode. I still believe we need a way to show new people the ropes. And for the fun... I think more variety and yes more Lore in case of faction distinction and meaningful game play is needed. I want a goal. I want something to happen in a way that I can say I helped. I was not only there to flip a meaningless dot on the map. And no I have no solutions for that. My thinking is more long term and not doable in just a few months. And to be honest... I would love to have a solution that integrates as many groups as possible.
FP for me is not end content. I don't feel the same rush when I am on the winning side as in other mmo's and their end content. Perhaps it is my fault. In a 1 man unit it is hard to plaster the galaxy with your TAG. Perhaps playing in a big unit would make it feel more like end game. I don't know.
Your opinions?