185 replies to this topic

[AnTi90d]

Tomorrow's meeting is probably going to be just like this one.

GG: large unit circlejerk that mainly benefits large pop factions and mercs.

Now they're brainstorming ideas on how to screw over solo pilots by saying they're, "encouraging unit participation."



It's almost like there's a lake on this island.. and on that lake is another island.

[JaxRiot]

AnTi90d, on 27 July 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

Tomorrow's meeting is probably going to be just like this one.

GG: large unit circlejerk that mainly benefits large pop factions and mercs.

Now they're brainstorming ideas on how to screw over solo pilots by saying they're, "encouraging unit participation."



It's almost like there's a lake on this island.. and on that lake is another island.

Its always been that way.

They think that the harder and more solo-unfriendly the game mode is the more it will encourage people to join their units.

They dont understand that it does the exact opposite and just drives them away

[Johnny Z]

JaxRiot, on 27 July 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

Its always been that way.

They think that the harder and more solo-unfriendly the game mode is the more it will encourage people to join their units.

They dont understand that it does the exact opposite and just drives them away

Yep it doesn't work even for games that go all in for this. Ends up totally deserted game. Archage built their game for guilds, its an amazing game and totally deserted. Anyway no worries this is common knowledge across all games now... that game has other problems to.

Archage is a perfect example of an amazing game, that knew it was amazing and screwed everything up because they thought it would fly.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 July 2016 - 07:18 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

I was optimistic that there would be some changes to Faction Play via the Roundtable meeting with PGI. After listening to the pre-Roundtable meeting that optimism has all but faded away. As an analogy, it was like listening to a bunch of American politicians talking about what is best for the United States people while only actually concerned about their own self interest.

I do not see any way that the things I heard discussed tonight is going to lure the 90% of the population that does not play Faction Warfare back into Faction Warfare for anything other than event awards. Then they will quickly leave again. Besides a near consensus on removing the Long Tom from the game I heard no viable ways to quickly turn around the downward trend that Faction Play is in. There where some grandiose pie in the sky ideas but I cannot see PGI investing the money and resources into those ideas for such a small segment of their game population and little to no return on that investment of resources. Viable short term ideas seemed to be largely ignored. (Jaeger seemed to have a couple good ideas, so props to him) Also, saying that some of the things proposed could be put into the next patch was naive at best.

I hope PGI looks beyond the big unit leaders to see why people are not being drawn to FP and takes that into consideration. Many of the unit leaders do not seem to know the answer or simply do not care. They just seem to want their private playground improved for them. Maybe something good will happen. If not then QP is more fun anyway so I will just give up on FP improving..

Edited by Rampage, 27 July 2016 - 07:37 PM.

[N0MAD]

ohh my, just listened to them,,, i dont know what,, they really are just pushing agendas, they dont even realize that this is about how to bring in population, even without this i can tell you that whats going to happen in the near future is PGI cutting down buckets even to the point of Clan vs IS on maybe 2 planets as a band aid so that the small existing CW pop get a bit quicker games,, just a band aid.
All hope lost this can achieve anything meaningful to help population issues..

[Johnny Z]

Rampage, on 27 July 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

I was optimistic that there would be some changes to Faction Play via the Roundtable meeting with PGI. After listening to the pre-Roundtable meeting that optimism has all but faded away. As an analogy, it was like listening to a bunch of American politicians talking about what is best for the United States people while only actually concerned about their own self interest.

I do not see any way that the things I heard discussed tonight is going to lure the 90% of the population that does not play Faction Warfare back into Faction Warfare for anything other than event awards. Then they will quickly leave again. Besides a near consensus on removing the Long Tom from the game I heard no viable ways to quickly turn around the downward trend that Faction Play is in. There where some grandiose pie in the sky ideas but I cannot see PGI investing the money and resources into those ideas for such a small segment of their game population and little to no return on that investment of resources. Viable short term ideas seemed to be largely ignored. (Jaeger seemed to have a couple good ideas, so props to him) Also, saying that some of the things proposed could be put into the next patch was naive at best.

I hope PGI looks beyond the big unit leaders to see why people are not being drawn to FP and takes that into consideration. Many of the unit leaders do not seem to know the answer or simply do not care. They just seem to want their private playground improved for them. Maybe something good will happen. If not then QP is more fun anyway so I will just give up on FP improving..

I have been listening to this and it wasn't that bad and was good in a lot of ways. Tomorrows I assume will be better.

[Cy Mitchell]

Johnny Z, on 27 July 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

I have been listening to this and it wasn't that bad and was good in a lot of ways.

I listened for 3 hours. I listened for realistic, achievable fixes. IMO, they were few and far between.

Johnny Z, on 27 July 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

Tomorrows I assume will be better.

I sincerely hope so.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

I apologize for giving a damn.

Oh, come on, let me have my 15 seconds of island!

[MischiefSC]

There's some solid ideas. Rewards based on participation, not tags was one. Events that are FW related was another. Better communication tools and the ability for units to buy mechs to loan to new players was another.

More purpose and strategy was another good one.

There's some good ideas there, just need to split what would happen from what never will.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 27 July 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Oh, come on, let me have my 15 seconds of island!

THIS ISLAND ISN'T BIG ENOUGH FOR THE BOTH OF US!


I'm entirely unsure what the complaining about is here.. maybe soloists are not as represented in the meeting, but there is a goal to try to integrate solo players into FW and this fortunately doesn't require those to join units - they just need more general access.


The only idea I could come up with is trying to add a button to insert into faction chat for those needing to quickly connect to TS through the built-in TS interface in the MWO client - if just to hear drop calls and stuff. That would be a massive improvement over that 1 minute rush-to-adjust the dropdecks sequence.

I'd like to be hopeful that some of this would get thru to PGI, but then again, I should expect nothing of consequence either. We'll see.


I felt for the most part it was a good convo - whether you agreed with everything or not. You have to have people willing to discuss aspects of the game - good and bad... in order to bring a proper consensus of the issues. I'm not going to say this was right or wrong, but at least over one time or another, you know those gripes have come up in discussion - within your unit or your circle of friends that play MWO.

In order to move forward, it's OK to step back and look over the game (specifically FW) as a whole to know what's up and what needs to be done. The question is whether PGI would even embrace a few legitimately good ideas and implement them properly.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 July 2016 - 08:18 PM.

[Scout Derek]

N0MAD, on 27 July 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

ohh my, just listened to them,,, i dont know what,, they really are just pushing agendas, they dont even realize that this is about how to bring in population, even without this i can tell you that whats going to happen in the near future is PGI cutting down buckets even to the point of Clan vs IS on maybe 2 planets as a band aid so that the small existing CW pop get a bit quicker games,, just a band aid.
All hope lost this can achieve anything meaningful to help population issues..

I hate to say this Nomad....


but you're a bit right. they were pushing own agendas for awhile there.

... sigh.

MischiefSC, on 27 July 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

There's some solid ideas. Rewards based on participation, not tags was one. Events that are FW related was another. Better communication tools and the ability for units to buy mechs to loan to new players was another.

More purpose and strategy was another good one.

There's some good ideas there, just need to split what would happen from what never will.

While there was some solid ideas, it's hard to sift through what was said. they should have at some points recapped what was discussed. I asked a few times and no response. it could be that I was also jumping into it for a few hours and left for 20-30 minutes to do something else.

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

THIS ISLAND ISN'T BIG ENOUGH FOR THE BOTH OF US!


I'm entirely unsure what the complaining about is here.. maybe soloists are not as represented in the meeting, but there is a goal to try to integrate solo players into FW and this fortunately doesn't require those to join units - they just need more general access.


The only idea I could come up with is trying to add a button to insert into faction chat for those needing to quickly connect to TS through the built-in TS interface in the MWO client - if just to hear drop calls and stuff. That would be a massive improvement over that 1 minute rush-to-adjust the dropdecks sequence.

I'd like to be hopeful that some of this would get thru to PGI, but then again, I should expect nothing of consequence either. We'll see.

We will see. One can be hopeful. Some can interpret that as whiteknighting, but it isn't. it's the wanting of a better game in all.

[Deathlike]

Procurator Derek, on 27 July 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

I hate to say this Nomad....


but you're a bit right. they were pushing own agendas for awhile there.

... sigh.

I don't think there were bad agendas necessarily... but just ideas to throw out there as potential options to be visited. It's a brainstorm, not a poopstorm. Of course not all ideas are great either...

Quote

While there was some solid ideas, it's hard to sift through what was said. they should have at some points recapped what was discussed. I asked a few times and no response. it could be that I was also jumping into it for a few hours and left for 20-30 minutes to do something else.

It's kinda hard to jump on into the middle of something like that. Better to relisten to it, but I think there was some list, but I don't think it was made available to everyone.

Quote

We will see. One can be hopeful. Some can interpret that as whiteknighting, but it isn't. it's the wanting of a better game in all.

Oh noes, what am I going to do with this dark grey suit?



Seriously though, I still have this lingering fear in the back of my head where I read the notes to the round table and find out how much PGI isn't willing to do.

[Cy Mitchell]

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

Seriously though, I still have this lingering fear in the back of my head where I read the notes to the round table and find out how much PGI isn't willing to do.

Or cannot do for either economic or technical reasons.

[MischiefSC]

The queue combo Shimmeringsword put together was excellent.

So combine queues. Attack, defend, even multiple factions. So if CJF is attacking Steiner and Steiner is attacking CJF there is ONE QUEUE. If Steiner takes X slices they take a world from CJF. If they keep CJF from taking X slices they also keep CJF from taking a Steiner world. However it's one queue that could be attack, defend or counter-attack for everyone involved.

Kick it up a notch, FRR attacks CJF too and FRR and Steiner are allies. 6 more slices added to queue and FRR is in the same queue with CJF and Steiner. This compresses populations and prevents the "units attack, pugs defend" issues and "units avoid units" drama.

It's a good idea.

Alliances means you vote for an ally like you vote for attack, you share drops with allies. This lets everyone adjust population on the fly without destroying faction identity.

Logistical advancement - when you vote to attack you pick from 3-5 worlds on that front so you can control your path.

You can only drop on fronts with an unbroken link to your capital. If, for example, FRR cut the CJF corridor suddenly CJF can't drop on any front south of the FRR cut. They auto-lose 1 world every 2 or 3 days that they are cut off back to who they took it from.

That creates a lot of strategy to try and carve off sections of enemies and break advances or steal huge swaths by a siege.

These are things that can be implemented quick and easy by comparison and would add a lot of draw.

Also make mercs get no real bonus but loyalists get more, let loyalist units hire mercs via funds transfers. Mercs want paid they need hired or they make standard pay.

[Deathlike]

Rampage, on 27 July 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Or cannot do for either economic or technical reasons.

If you're going to do something right, you're going to have to put time and effort in it. Sure there may be some logistical problems and limitations, but if you're wanting to show the effort, you can't just cut corners in general.

[JaxRiot]

Dont know why anyone here is surprised.

Even though we all hoped for something more we all knew it would just end up being units pushing their own agendas.

Their big ideas for making FP more Puggle friendly is to have more FP events.

Which we all know is just bait to lead the Puggles to slaughter and doesnt fix a dam thing

Ah well. Thats what i get for risking a little bit of hope.

So I'll just stick with QP like the rest of the player base and ket FP rot... Just like the last 2 years

Edited by JaxRiot, 27 July 2016 - 08:45 PM.

[MischiefSC]

JaxRiot, on 27 July 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

Dont know why anyone here is surprised.

Even though we all hoped for something more we all knew it would just end up being units pushing their own agendas.

Their big ideas for making FP more Puggle friendly is to have more FP events.

Which we all know is just bait to lead the Puggles to slaughter.

Ah well. Thats what i get for risking a little bit of hope.

So I'll just stick with QP like the rest of the player base and ket FP rot... Just like the last 2 years

No, there were a ton of ideas to pit units v units and remove the "pugs defend, units attack" dynamic that creates the drama in question.

The events in question were essentially QP style events with FW mechanics. Not things to draw pugs into FW directly but give them regular events to get used to FW play, maps, modes, etc in a fun way.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 27 July 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

There's some solid ideas. Rewards based on participation, not tags was one. Events that are FW related was another. Better communication tools and the ability for units to buy mechs to loan to new players was another.

More purpose and strategy was another good one.

There's some good ideas there, just need to split what would happen from what never will.

just off topic abit,, you think units been able to lend Mechs to its players is a good idea?, works well if you wana instantly arm an ALT army i suppose, cant see how exploitable that is? certainly has the potential to increase the population,, an ALT army population.
sorry of topic abit.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 27 July 2016 - 08:48 PM, said:

just off topic abit,, you think units been able to lend Mechs to its players is a good idea?, works well if you wana instantly arm an ALT army i suppose, cant see how exploitable that is? certainly has the potential to increase the population,, an ALT army population.
sorry of topic abit.

They would work like trials. No modules, cant spend XP on them, can't modify them. Why make an "alt army"? It's an insane hassle. You've got a period of trial matches where you get no rewards, you'd need 4 unit trials per person (the idea is that they'd be very expensive) and it would be easier to just change career from merc to freelancer then join the merc unit in question. A few million recruitment cost and you've got your full mastered decks.

Only real value would be helping new players get into FW and it would be a big expense.

[AnTi90d]

I don't really like the combine the queues idea.. and it would involve PGI recoding a good bit of their current queue system.

I do want to see alliances implemented, but I don't think we should be able to vote for them. What if everyone just votes for the faction that's next to theirs, clockwise? What if two high population factions get together and decide to ally, screwing over all the other factions for their own benefit? Having them set by the system seems like it would be both easier to implement and prevent abuse.

No one on coms spoke up for the benefit of the solo loyalist / freelancer / general pug. Maybe because no one invited them, just like none are invited tomorrow. If your whole roundtable is populated by large units from high pop factions, your ideas will probably be to your own benefit and to the detriment of everyone else forced to sit at the back of the bus.

I'm starting to think that none of this matters. People aren't putting their own self interests aside to save the mode; they're just grandstanding to secure more benefits for themselves or wasting everyone's time with grandiose wishes.