206 replies to this topic

[4rcs1ne]

There is a strong rhetoric on these forums that lights should only be relegated to only scouting or capping. Because of this rhetoric, lights, the least played chassis in the game, have been nerfed by PGI from quirk reductions to being enlarged…in some cases to the size of heavies! In addition, this ideology has created an imbalance in this game in two senses:

1. Light queue percentages are at all-time lows. People only want to play mechs that will produce the most damage. Therefore, heavier mechs are better for this.

2. There is a divide between the pro-light crowd (Mostly consisting of higher tier players with a few exceptions), and the anti-light crowd (Mostly consisting of lower tier players with a few exceptions).

Personally, I believe that lights should be given offensive roles within the confines of Mechwarrior Online. Why, you ask?


1. The only way to maximize c-bill output is damage output (More specifically, KMDD). Capping and scouting have terrible rewards.

2. As stated previously, light percentages are at an all-time low. For the sake of queue balance, it would be better if lights were more viable as offensive machines.

3. It would teach people to use some ounce of situational awareness. Rather than standing still all the time, players would learn the following:
a) To stick with their team.
b ) To constantly move and be aware of their surroundings.

4. It’s a heck of a lot more fun!


Now it’s time talk about the social injustice lights face. Here is a post by TheCharlatan that sums it up perfectly.

TheCharlatan, on 08 April 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

Ok, light pilots, you heard 'em.
No more playing games, ok?
You just go over there, look at the red doritos, say where they are to the real mechwarriors, and go do your thing somewhere else. Something like... i don't know. There might be something to cap over there.
No fun for you light pilots, you hear me? No more shooting other robots. It's not your role.
Oh, and remember, if you ever encounter another mech which is heavier than you, make sure to stand still and die, because, you know, their mech is more expensive, and so should always win.

Do certain people not see the problem with this mentality? You can’t just relegate lights to scouters or cappers unless scouting and capping:


A) Get better payouts
B ) Are more fun (More meat and depth)
C) Are more relevant


Therefore, it would take PGI implementing a proper and deep information warfare system. My expectations of PGI are set so low right now that I just don’t see them ever making changes like this.

Finally, just because a light killed you, doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed. Very few people ever use this argument if a medium, heavy, or assault killed someone. Why are lights viewed as if they should be inferior compared to their bigger, manlier counterparts?

Summary: The point of this post is to get folks to understand why lights should be given offensive roles in a game where damage is king and to shed light on the social injustice lights face. If you're in the anti-light crowd, this post may or may not convince you (Hopefully it will ). If you're in the pro-light crowd, well, this is just old hat .


Thanks ,
Matthew

Edited by Matt2496, 22 July 2016 - 12:00 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Agreed they should be

[Darian DelFord]

I would be happy if we just got rewards even with the amount of work put in...

Lers face it, getting 500+ damage in a heavy is far easier than getting 500 in a light.... yet the pay out is exactly the same.

[GreenHell]

Really... I've heard people say the exact opposite to the OP.

Imho, lights ARE combat effective. There is no better mech to destroy an assault that gets separated from it's team. There is also no better mech to quickly re-enforce a trouble area on the battlefield. They also make some of the best harassment / distraction / ambush mechs.

As I've posted before
Rule #1 - Never take a fair fight. Always have the advantage.
Rule #2 - Speed is life. You go slow, you die.

[Weeny Machine]

GreenHell, on 22 July 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

Really... I've heard people say the exact opposite to the OP.

Imho, lights ARE combat effective. There is no better mech to destroy an assault that gets separated from it's team. There is also no better mech to quickly re-enforce a trouble area on the battlefield. They also make some of the best harassment / distraction / ambush mechs.

As I've posted before
Rule #1 - Never take a fair fight. Always have the advantage.
Rule #2 - Speed is life. You go slow, you die.

With their current size the speed argument is not valid anymore. Look at the size of the Jenner IIC. If you fail to get an alpha in before he run off...well, you fail pretty much.

Lights are restricted to poking and drive-by-shooting. Knife fighting is basically dead.

[nehebkau]

I think, as you get into a higher tier, playing a light becomes less viable. Since the matchmaker doesn't take into account the battle value of your mech AND given that higher tier players are supposed to carry the low players in a match there is pressure as a player progresses in a tier to NOT take a light. Since playing a light requires a certain amount of skill you wont see many of them played too often in the lower ranks.

Basically what I am saying is that light pilots are eventually coerced into not playing lights so the number of them will always diminish.

[GreenHell]

Running straight at your enemies from the front will get you killed 100% of the time regardless of speed or size...

You must use strategy and keep your head on a swivel. Make heavy use of your map and attack / harass from odd angles, and always do so as a group (or swarm) of mechs. If you are attacking solo in a light, it had better be to lure the enemy to chase you into an ambush. You absolutely cannot go "toe to toe" in a head on fight in a light, and you also shouldn't.

[Elizander]

Peek and shoot ERLL Adders are fun to rip assaults with. :3

If you're talking about face-staring then... well, dunno. D:

[Weeny Machine]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 22 July 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

I say they are seriously combat effective. I'll just leave these here as proof:

Both in my Arctic Cheetah today

I could post here similar screenies if not even better ones. The problem is that those do not take into account that a whole playstyle is dead (knife fighting) and that you can do this relatively consistendly. Especially on the many poke maps...


And for the peeps who say: you need to ambush blabla. True. Guess what people do? The problem is when you are in the upper tiers there are people with situational awareness AND good aiming skill and if you do not run ECM you get one alpha off before you can run with your skirts raised

Edited by Bush Hopper, 22 July 2016 - 02:10 PM.

[Flutterguy]

GreenHell, on 22 July 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

Really... I've heard people say the exact opposite to the OP.

Imho, lights ARE combat effective. There is no better mech to destroy an assault that gets separated from it's team. There is also no better mech to quickly re-enforce a trouble area on the battlefield. They also make some of the best harassment / distraction / ambush mechs.

As I've posted before
Rule #1 - Never take a fair fight. Always have the advantage.
Rule #2 - Speed is life. You go slow, you die.

Ok, I've taken a peek at your light leaderboard stats and I'm very curious if you follow your own advice. Not that your rules are wrong, but it feels like there's a disconnect between what you say and how you play.

[FupDup]

GreenHell, on 22 July 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

Rule #2 - Speed is life. You go slow, you die.

Not all lights can go fast.

Also, killing an isolated fatty requires the fatty player (and/or his team) to make a mistake. People that don't make such mistakes are much harder to hunt...

[operatorZ]

Matt2496, on 22 July 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

Because of this rhetoric, lights, the least played chassis in the game, have been nerfed by PGI from quirk reductions to being enlarged…in some cases to the size of heavies!

ok do tell, which light is the size of a heavy? I must know.

[Yellonet]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 22 July 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

I say they are seriously combat effective. I'll just leave these here as proof:

Both in my Arctic Cheetah today

That would be quite good if not for the ACH part...

[Weeny Machine]

operatorZ, on 22 July 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

ok do tell, which light is the size of a heavy? I must know.

Just compare some of the lights (e.g. Jenner IIC) with a Catapult.

[Mawai]

Agreed that lights should be capable of decent combat roles.

However, your post seems to imply that they aren't capable whereas my experience seems to indicate otherwise.

Lights are hard to play. They need a lot of situational awareness, good aim, fast reflexes, never stop moving, and a certain amount of caution.

Lights can be very effective, even today.

However, you can't play a light like any other mech. You can't look at your opponent for even a few seconds, even running directly towards an opponent for the length of time required to fire your lasers is an invitation to die. If they happen to be looking your way and are ready to fire then you are at high risk.

For these reasons it is much harder to earn cbills in a light than most other classes. They have lower alpha, need to get lots of shots to rack up damage, are vulnerable to the slightest mistakes ... these are the reasons why the light queue is typically less than the others. However, it doesn't mean that lights do not contribute and aren't in fact competitive ... they often just have to work harder to get there.

I too would like to see PGI build the role warfare system they have so long talked about ... however, i won't hold my breath.

[Requiemking]

operatorZ, on 22 July 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

ok do tell, which light is the size of a heavy? I must know.

Panthers, Wolfhounds, and Spiders are all as tall as heavies, granted the Spider only just barely gets there but it does.

[Stone Wall]

I still have no problem in Tier 5 using a Jenner F.

GreenHell, on 22 July 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

Really... I've heard people say the exact opposite to the OP.

Imho, lights ARE combat effective. There is no better mech to destroy an assault that gets separated from it's team. There is also no better mech to quickly re-enforce a trouble area on the battlefield. They also make some of the best harassment / distraction / ambush mechs.

As I've posted before
Rule #1 - Never take a fair fight. Always have the advantage.
Rule #2 - Speed is life. You go slow, you die.

Pretty much two solid rules. Never go 1 on 1 vs a Heavy or Assault when it's max health. Bring some wing mates into a fight like that.

[Tarl Cabot]

True be told, lights stick around TOO long in an engagement, I do it myself.

Why do lights stick around longer than they should? Other than being shot at, lights are moving faster than most of their targets, and like other mechs can continue firing off their alphas/groups til near max heat cap, but there is nothing really in play to make lights to scoot in fire off a shot or two then get out. Against an assault it gets extremely ridiculously, but what usually happens is a light pilot is so engaged with that assault that they do not notice a friend of theirs coming around the corner.

Again, for many players who pilots a light, there is not real emphasis to get in and out like a bandit, which is their shortcoming.

Having leveled up all of my locusts the previous weekend and days, even though it has its tiny size, there are many times I have forgotten the above rule. But if there were actual heat level related movement penalties (similar to cXL w/1 destroy torso) I would not stick around circling another mech for near as long as I sometimes do. Even though the target would also be affected by heat movement penalties, it would also mean if a friend shows up I would not be able to move away fast enough.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 22 July 2016 - 02:49 PM.

[Mystere]

Flutterguy, on 22 July 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Ok, I've taken a peek at your light leaderboard stats and I'm very curious if you follow your own advice. Not that your rules are wrong, but it feels like there's a disconnect between what you say and how you play.

Is leaderboard shaming now the norm?

[Cyborne Elemental]

#1. Fix hitreg.
This fantasy that lights are overpowered is only because hitreg in this game is terrible, speed just amplifies the glaring problems with the netcode in MWO, and just how bad it is in the Cryengine.

Whether it is HSR or hitscan mostly responsible, I don't know, don't care, I just know one of the two or both are a problem.

When by some miracle PGI comes to its senses and deal with getting hitreg working on fast moving mechs, quirks, hitboxes, and other balancing factors will be so much easier for PGI to dial in.

Until hitreg is fixed, or at least dialed in better to compensate for ping differentials and all the little things that seem to make fast lights near invincible to anything besides Gauss or mass focus fire, its just going to continue to be a downhill slope.