Violet Vitriol Price, on 02 August 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:
I use IS and Clan LBX's and i like them ,although i agree they are not as good as the AC10, but they are fun.
Someone else suggested earlier that to increase the amount of pellets and increase the spread. I think it could work really well to double the amount of pellets fired from each LBX ( LB2-4 pellets, LB20-40 pellets) and increase the spread by a third or more. Up close it would be a monster ( say at 150-200m with the LB20, 500-600m with LB2) and as you get further away the amount of spread would allow you to hit several mechs at once.
This would at least make it fairly unique and would hopefully not obselete the AC20 or UAC20 by having such short effective range
Wouldn't consider this a lore solution -- but considering we're playing a game where we know the developers aren't concerned with the lore, as a want-to-be-developer, I have thought of a similar concept [under the "weapon variants" concept for giving us dozens more weapons without actually creating them as a solution for balance issues between chassis before PGI's "Lets throw 50% quirks at everything"] and as an actual solution that PGI 'might' do, I'd back this concept.
I can also tell you why they will not. "Hit detection." Despite how this would actually improve overall 'net' hit detection, the gross hit detection (math terms mind you) would decline horribly due to having to put a higher load on server bullet path calculations and host state rewind. It would -- possibly, add another millisecond or two delay/lag in the server-side simulation which would be nearly undetectable to us if we're near, but to those using a US server from the Oceanic coastline might see some nasty decreases in performance where already the "Zoom" function might take 2-5 seconds to "zoom" after the button is pressed and enemies teleport.
Edit: To define horribly, I imagine it would be factors of a decline of less than 2% if that much; I'm really thinking more along the lines of sub-1%.
And back to the point, what would've been better?
1. turn LBX into a shotgun (1.5-2.0 x damage or pellet count, really high spread);
2. make it closer to TT description (suprior AC) with even more tighter spread, no falldown, same range etc. (which is contrary in many ways to what the first option describes);
3. leave it be as is until some miraclous later game overhaul or ammo types implementation.
It still effectively is. But read into what "Cluster-shot" is within Battletech, and then what Canister rounds are (real life). They are the same thing.
"In addition to firing the standard Dual-Purpose Armor-Defeating Rounds, the weapon may also fire a special Cluster Round that acts much like an anti-'Mech shotgun. After being fired, the round breaks up into several smaller submunitions. This improves the chance of striking a critical location on the target, but also reduces the overall damage done and spreads it out over the entire target area rather than concentrating it in one location." - TRO 2750 (the first book in which the LB-X is introduced to the BattleTech universe), pg. 08
"The LB-X autocannon can fire cluster munitions, which act like an anti-BattleMech shotgun in combat. When fired, the ammunition fragments into several smaller submunitions. This improves the attacker’s chances of striking a critical location but disperses total damage by spreading hits over the target area rather than concentrating the damage on one location. Cluster munitions can be used only in LB-X autocannon, not in standard or Ultra autocannon types." - CBT Master Rules, pg. 132
"The 120mm M1028 Canister is a muzzle action anti-personnel tank cartridge. This cartridge is fired from the 120mm main gun of the M1A1/M1A2 Abrams tank and is effective at ranges less than 700 meters. The baseline design utilizes a payload of approximately 1,100 tungsten balls that are expelled from the projectile casing upon muzzle exit, similar to a shotgun shell." (source)
See also: here and here
Note that the CBT Master Rules description specifically says, "When fired, the ammunition fragments into several smaller submunitions" - indicating that the shell fragments at muzzle exit, much like its real-world counterpart (the aforementioned M1028).
The difference between CROATOAN/LB-X cluster rounds and the M1028 is that the former's submunitions are themselves loaded with explosives (making them akin to bomblets or grenades), while the latter's submunitions are simple Tungsten shot.
The LB-X cluster rounds are also repeatedly described as "shotgun shells" or "shotgun-like ammunition" throughout the novels, rulebooks, and sourcebooks.
"Natasha's laugh survived computer modulation intact. "Of course. Would you prefer that they use a strategy that makes them comfortable or uncomfortable?"
"Point taken. This LBX autocannon has Cluster loads." "Shotgun shells. It'll sand all the armor off a foe. Once you've softened him up, your lasers ought to cut him to ribbons."
Phelan nodded to himself and studied the auxiliary monitor. "Gauss rifle in my left arm?"
"Great weapon. It uses magnetic currents to launch a ball of ferrous metal about the diameter of a melon. Generates next to no heat and packs one hell of a wallop. The only problem is that its power requirements are fairly heavy. If you try to shoot it and the lasers at the same time, the computer will have to cycle and allocate power, so it will take a bit longer to get your salvo off."" - Natasha Kerensky & Phelan Kell, Blood Legacy, chapter 19
"Shunting plasma flow from the fusion engine into his jump jet reaction chambers, Doles guided the Emperor into a ninety-meter spinning flight that landed him directly behind the Marauder. Realizing his error the Periphery warrior tried to turn into the attack, but too late. Lasers flared ruby energy into its already-weakened rear torso and sides, evaporating any remaining armor it might have claimed and then carving deep into internal support structure. The autocannon hammered its shotgun-like ammunition into the breaches, each fragmenting piece ricocheting deeper than the one before in search of critical components." - battle between Colonel Warner Doles' Emperor (firing a LB 10-X) and a Taurian Concordat Marauder, The Killing Fields, chapter 36
"As he ran, Jake saw Petra bring her Stormcrow forward and to the right, closing in on the second Avatar to bring her autocannon into play. Her opponent took a few steps back and launched a double-salvo of LRMs from its shoulders, following it up with a shotgun-like blast from its right-arm autocannon. Her speed made her a difficult enough target that the cannon shot went wide, but her Stormcrow weathered a spread of twenty long-range missiles before she raised her 'Mech's left arm and let rip with the autocannon." - battle between MechWarrior Petra's Ryoken B and a DCMS Avatar Prime firing a LB 10-X, Test of Vengeance, chapter 13
By contrast, there is not a single instance of LB-X cluster rounds being described in any canonical works as having any sort of proximity-based or timer-based fuse system (in the style of Shrapnel shells - "anti-personnel artillery munitions which carried a large number of individual bullets close to the target and then ejected them to allow them to continue along the shell's trajectory and strike the target individually").
The description of a proximity fuse is used, however, in the description of BT "Flak shells" for Standard ACs (Tactical Operations, page 352) and "Air-Burst Rifle Munitions" for handheld rifles (Combat Equipment, page 20) - the latter being what is represented in films like Elysium.
"In an effort to increase the lethality of their infantry against unarmored opposition, the FedSuns military has begun testing a special high-tech version of standard explosive rifle munitions that can be programmed to detonate at specific ranges through a mechanism within the ammo clip itself. These air-burst rounds enable snipers to hit targets hiding right around a corner; however, their expense, limited application, complexity, reduced damage potential, and the limited ammo capacity per magazine (due to the presence of the programming mechanisms) make them all but useless in a fluid battle".
When the alternative is double, more precise damage...yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and laugh at you
The DPS increases on the UACs are that great, and aren't frontloaded for the clans. The damage isn't even that much more precise when you consider the burst timing and how much spread has been improved for LBX.
Yeonne Greene, on 02 August 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:
A variable choke on the LB-X would have the same effect as an air-bursting round if what we are concerned with is maintaining a constant dispersal of shot at any point within the weapon's range bracket.
Agreed.
Quote
A variable/adjustable choke system... that is servo-driven & slaved to the "Mercury-VII targeting system" mentioned in TRO 2750 (the book in which the LB-X was first introduced in BattleTech, published in 1989) would fully account for the behavior of the LB-X ACs within the BattleTech gameplay rules (with the choke being set to "fully open" when firing LB-X slugs or when firing LB-X cluster rounds at extremely close range, being set to "full choke" when firing LB-X cluster rounds at long-range targets, having intermediate settings for targets at intermediate ranges, and automatically adjusting the choke setting based on the range-to-target as determined by the Mercury-VII) while still preserving the long-standing & canonical character & role of "LB-X as anti-BattleMech shotgun".
Apparently, adjustable chokes for shotguns have been around since at least the 1920s.
And at least some of them can also handle slugs as well as shotshells, an ability that seems to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Given that the LB-X is made of materials that can only be properly created/refined in microgravity conditions, and are mounted on bipedal walking tanks powered by portable and self-contained fusion reactors, assuming that some form of adjustable choke (capable of handling both the slug and cluster rounds) is built into the design doesn't seem too far-fetched...
It would be interesting, IMO, if future improvements to MWO included the LB-X's choke being able to automatically adjust itself in real-time, based on the range to the target and the degree of convergence achieved, when cluster rounds are the currently-selected ammo type, so as to optimize the spread with respect to the current situation at any given time...
"In addition to firing the standard Dual-Purpose Armor-Defeating Rounds, the weapon may also fire a special Cluster Round that acts much like an anti-'Mech shotgun. After being fired, the round breaks up into several smaller submunitions. This improves the chance of striking a critical location on the target, but also reduces the overall damage done and spreads it out over the entire target area rather than concentrating it in one location." - TRO 2750 (the first book in which the LB-X is introduced to the BattleTech universe), pg. 08
"The LB-X autocannon can fire cluster munitions, which act like an anti-BattleMech shotgun in combat. When fired, the ammunition fragments into several smaller submunitions. This improves the attacker’s chances of striking a critical location but disperses total damage by spreading hits over the target area rather than concentrating the damage on one location. Cluster munitions can be used only in LB-X autocannon, not in standard or Ultra autocannon types." - CBT Master Rules, pg. 132
"The 120mm M1028 Canister is a muzzle action anti-personnel tank cartridge. This cartridge is fired from the 120mm main gun of the M1A1/M1A2 Abrams tank and is effective at ranges less than 700 meters. The baseline design utilizes a payload of approximately 1,100 tungsten balls that are expelled from the projectile casing upon muzzle exit, similar to a shotgun shell." (source)
See also: here and here
Note that the CBT Master Rules description specifically says, "When fired, the ammunition fragments into several smaller submunitions" - indicating that the shell fragments at muzzle exit, much like its real-world counterpart (the aforementioned M1028).
The difference between CROATOAN/LB-X cluster rounds and the M1028 is that the former's submunitions are themselves loaded with explosives (making them akin to bomblets or grenades), while the latter's submunitions are simple Tungsten shot.
The LB-X cluster rounds are also repeatedly described as "shotgun shells" or "shotgun-like ammunition" throughout the novels, rulebooks, and sourcebooks.
"Natasha's laugh survived computer modulation intact. "Of course. Would you prefer that they use a strategy that makes them comfortable or uncomfortable?"
"Point taken. This LBX autocannon has Cluster loads." "Shotgun shells. It'll sand all the armor off a foe. Once you've softened him up, your lasers ought to cut him to ribbons."
Phelan nodded to himself and studied the auxiliary monitor. "Gauss rifle in my left arm?"
"Great weapon. It uses magnetic currents to launch a ball of ferrous metal about the diameter of a melon. Generates next to no heat and packs one hell of a wallop. The only problem is that its power requirements are fairly heavy. If you try to shoot it and the lasers at the same time, the computer will have to cycle and allocate power, so it will take a bit longer to get your salvo off."" - Natasha Kerensky & Phelan Kell, Blood Legacy, chapter 19
"Shunting plasma flow from the fusion engine into his jump jet reaction chambers, Doles guided the Emperor into a ninety-meter spinning flight that landed him directly behind the Marauder. Realizing his error the Periphery warrior tried to turn into the attack, but too late. Lasers flared ruby energy into its already-weakened rear torso and sides, evaporating any remaining armor it might have claimed and then carving deep into internal support structure. The autocannon hammered its shotgun-like ammunition into the breaches, each fragmenting piece ricocheting deeper than the one before in search of critical components." - battle between Colonel Warner Doles' Emperor (firing a LB 10-X) and a Taurian Concordat Marauder, The Killing Fields, chapter 36
"As he ran, Jake saw Petra bring her Stormcrow forward and to the right, closing in on the second Avatar to bring her autocannon into play. Her opponent took a few steps back and launched a double-salvo of LRMs from its shoulders, following it up with a shotgun-like blast from its right-arm autocannon. Her speed made her a difficult enough target that the cannon shot went wide, but her Stormcrow weathered a spread of twenty long-range missiles before she raised her 'Mech's left arm and let rip with the autocannon." - battle between MechWarrior Petra's Ryoken B and a DCMS Avatar Prime firing a LB 10-X, Test of Vengeance, chapter 13
By contrast, there is not a single instance of LB-X cluster rounds being described in any canonical works as having any sort of proximity-based or timer-based fuse system (in the style of Shrapnel shells - "anti-personnel artillery munitions which carried a large number of individual bullets close to the target and then ejected them to allow them to continue along the shell's trajectory and strike the target individually").
The description of a proximity fuse is used, however, in the description of BT "Flak shells" for Standard ACs (Tactical Operations, page 352) and "Air-Burst Rifle Munitions" for handheld rifles (Combat Equipment, page 20) - the latter being what is represented in films like Elysium.
"In an effort to increase the lethality of their infantry against unarmored opposition, the FedSuns military has begun testing a special high-tech version of standard explosive rifle munitions that can be programmed to detonate at specific ranges through a mechanism within the ammo clip itself. These air-burst rounds enable snipers to hit targets hiding right around a corner; however, their expense, limited application, complexity, reduced damage potential, and the limited ammo capacity per magazine (due to the presence of the programming mechanisms) make them all but useless in a fluid battle".
And we have our thinking man.
(I was really waiting for Yeonne to come up with this but I figured you'd come in and deliver it.)
So, we have the fluff-style which of course sides with Yeonne despite the fact that both me and Yeonne are correct at different parts.
Where it diverges, is the proximity detonation. Thus where my argument comes in as supported in part by DWW's argument, that fragmentation at the barrel while possible, doesn't account for the accuracy potential of the game rules. The one states when fired (as in right away), the second states (after being fired) which could happen at any point after the act of firing has occurred, opening the proximity detonation debate when you consider the extreme ranges and effectiveness of the LBX.
The only weapons of similar yet inverse effectiveness (bigger has superior range to smaller), both in the real world and in Battletech, are regular tank cannons such as the 120mm Rheinmail on the Abrams M1A2 and the Battletech "Rifles."
A shotgun spreading at the barrel could not match this, fluff or not. Thus a look into the CBT version that says "After being fired," and the quest to seek the ultimate truth that satisfies both realism, fluff, and game rules.
This is why I love debates, to really dig into something and figure out "how right or wrong" something is and "is it possible?"
Also been watching too many of these:
Edit: I see that fluff-wise this is defeated in the form of the airburst munitions and would be defeated for similar reasons in Battletech. Still, I refer this "proximity-detonated" canister method (the canister itself being launched first of course and then detonating later) as better able to explain the game rules than "It's a shotgun that uses canister ammunition that detonates immediately."
Though I quote the proximity detonated, as the original idea was that they would detonate at a set range of where the weapon was calibrated to fire (in other words a simple timer set before each one is lobbed). Proximity is interchangeable to a point though due to it'd blow when in a certain range of where I aimed.
Actually while a smart detonator is ruled out, the delayed detonation isn't quite.
Despite what it supposedly is, the Cluster shot is 8,000 cbills more expensive than standard ammunition or "slugs." for the same weapon (LB-10X). Which standard slugs are 2,000 cbills more per ton of ammo than standard AC/10s.
Sarna claims "Being of a higher caliber", though most novel entries I have notepadded here have LBX autocannons as equal to or smaller than similar ACs in terms of bullet girth (LB-2X can be 20mm to 90mm, AC/2's lower limit is 30mm for example). So it not being a 'standard' AC ammo has some merit despite some fluff entries stating clustershot or standard ammunition (as opposed to 'slugs').
What I personally imagine is that in order to achieve the ranges of tabletop, the canister is fired and then detonates at some point after the fact, ideally with a delay set to for the range detected. After detonation it then 'releases' its sub-munitions which are also explosive (but not airburst explosive). Similar to airburst but rather than proximity in the actual sense, I'm going with 'timer'. The increased expense does account for this. Between the weapon and the rounds, there's a lot of increased expense.
The alternative is that they 'fragment' early on and that somehow these sub-munitions which are still explosive will leave the barrel without detonating (despite all the potential 'glide' and 'impact' as they are focused down for ranged combat, where something between a dozen to hundreds of fragments are lobbed through the air at incredible speeds and possibly on impact 'explode', causing the kind of damages we see as they scatter about and getting front loaded because tabletop summaries.
Both are 'right' in some way or another. I can even see that the lobbed 'shotgun-like' blast fragmenting from the barrel, with enough sub munitions, would be able to deliver that kind of devastating to its intended target.
Though this leaves me wondering about the path of destruction that is 'left out' of this explanation when we go this route. We should have small explosions going in a cone, affecting potentially multiple targets especially as we go further out. And with this fluff explanation, we're left with something that doesn't quite fit.
The DPS increases on the UACs are that great, and aren't frontloaded for the clans. The damage isn't even that much more precise when you consider the burst timing and how much spread has been improved for LBX.
No, the LBx spreads more, as it's not feasible to put the pellets on the same location without facehugging. UAC double tap busts are Pulse laser duration
No, the LBx spreads more, as it's not feasibly to put the pellets on the same location without facehugging. UAC double tap busts are Pulse laser duration
And we have our thinking man.
(I was really waiting for Yeonne to come up with this but I figured you'd come in and deliver it.)
So, we have the fluff-style which of course sides with Yeonne despite the fact that both me and Yeonne are correct at different parts.
I'm correct over the entire thing. With an adjustable choke to tighten the spread the further away the locked target is, which I mentioned one page back and you failed to acknowledge as you got lost in your source-book citations and gleefully misguided attempts to cite physics at me, there is zero functional difference to your proximity fuse idea. I would say it's a little less believable but, well, we're talking about what would be considered heavy artillery pieces, controlled by a computer, that are only truly reliable at distances under a single click and are fed by goddamn cassettes. There is nothing believable about this. Ergo, proximity fuse is neat, and certainly what you would prefer for AA duties (albeit with a spherical dispersal pattern rather than forward-directed), but that's all it is in this context.
That said, striving for strict adherence to lore and TT at all costs is 100% irrelevant. All I really wanted to get at with my original post is that the shotgun mechanic is not only perfectly valid within the fluff, it is also the right one for the LB-X in MWO. What effect do you think a constant spread will have? It will make it worse than a standard AC at all ranges. I will not be able to hit one component no matter how close I am, and that's a problem because other guns can. If you tighten it up so I have single-component precision, we have the opposite issue: I will not ever take a standard AC. No. Shotgun spread is correct. The only reason it's not okay right now is because the gun is not potent enough at closer ranges to be worth the disadvantage it has in weight next to SRMs and the disadvantage it has over longer distances next to everything else. Tightening up the cone so that all of the pellets reliably strike the target (as a whole) at max optimum and then either A.) increasing the damage per pellet, B.) increasing the rate of fire, or C.) some combination of both would instantly transform the LB-X into a weapon worth serious consideration over regular ACs, especially if you intend to combine it with SRMs or a group of small-class lasers.
Cluster rounds do not strictly need to be effective to 540+ meters to be useful in this game.
No, the LBx spreads more, as it's not feasible to put the pellets on the same location without facehugging. UAC double tap busts are Pulse laser duration
You grossly overestimate LBx
Thats why i say increase damage vs structure, drop dmg vs armor, and give a flat rate increase to crit damage rather than %.
Pellet does 0.5 dmg vs armor.
Pellet does 2 or 3 damage vs open structure. 2 damage if this proves to be OP, 3 if it needs a boost.
Crits per pellet increase the damage to 5 per pellet that crits.
Figure at range, if 1-3 pellets hit an open component. that can be 6 or 9 to 15 damage per shot. Damage gets better up close, ala shotgun.
Vs armor its a paint scratch.
Tweak LBX2 and LBX5 spreads to be good-ish at range. LBX2 should have tight range well out to almost optimal range.
Compared to SRMs you get better velocity, spread, heat, range on the 2-5, and crit potential.
I wouldnt even bother factoring in crits vs Equipment at this point, completely moot.
Crit rate % and spread can be quirked on chassis/variants.
Thats why i say increase damage vs structure, drop dmg vs armor, and give a flat rate increase to crit damage rather than %.
Pellet does 0.5 dmg vs armor.
Pellet does 2 or 3 damage vs open structure. 2 damage if this proves to be OP, 3 if it needs a boost.
Crits per pellet increase the damage to 5 per pellet that crits.
Figure at range, if 1-3 pellets hit an open component. that can be 6 or 9 to 15 damage per shot. Damage gets better up close, ala shotgun.
Vs armor its a paint scratch.
Tweak LBX2 and LBX5 spreads to be good-ish at range. LBX2 should have tight range well out to almost optimal range.
Compared to SRMs you get better velocity, spread, heat, range on the 2-5, and crit potential.
I wouldnt even bother factoring in crits vs Equipment at this point, completely moot.
Crit rate % and spread can be quirked on chassis/variants.
You do realize you are essentially saying the LBX 2 should only do 1 damage per shot to an enemy with armor, right?
You realize the weapon would be completely worthless because you'd never manage to open the enemy's armor up to use that extra bonus, right?
Just cut the whole only good against structure thing and make it a good gun, Give it x2-3 damage point blank falling to x1 damage optimal range. Do that and you suddenly have a weapon that is very very good upclose, better than the normal AC for that range, but worse at an AC's effective range. If the bonus is over x2 for point blank it even rivals a UAC in damage potential, giving you more damage but more spread.
LBX doesn't need any more weaknesses, just buffs. We don't need to make tradeoffs for what good things we give it at this point.
No, the LBx spreads more, as it's not feasible to put the pellets on the same location without facehugging. UAC double tap busts are Pulse laser duration
You grossly overestimate LBx
Uh, no. There is a travel time as well, and depending on the range, that adds quite a bit to the damage spread. Secondly, I'm not saying that LBX are good, just that you're an idiot for making such a ******* ****** assumption. Don't mirepresent me as someone who uses LBX over UAC. I'm saying that a 15 damage C LBX10 will be ridiculous powerful even with the spread. The comparison is that LBX to the UAC.
If you are saying that it having spread is a qualitative problem, and you are strictly wrong. That's only a problem if the spread is so high it's hitting many components, which won't be more than two with current value. Just like with UAC, you're going to be spreading damage at range unless the target is a potato.
I'd gladly take heat scale free, never jamming, no burst first, "LBX15" over UAC10. Hell, some Kodiak3 Pilots preferred the Ghost Heat free LBX10 x4 over the UAC10 x4, and that was before UAC10's heat scale was nerfed.
Instead of asking for buffs of the LBX(with unspoken fears of PGI messing the weapon up)
we instead ask for a mod that tightens up pellet spread by 20%(max rank) or so.
We don't need range or cooldown buffs because we have mods for that,
what we need is spread reduction mods for LBX's and missiles(artemis has too many cons).
Uh, no. There is a travel time as well, and depending on the range, that adds quite a bit to the damage spread. Secondly, I'm not saying that LBX are good, just that you're an idiot for making such a ******* ****** assumption. Don't mirepresent me as someone who uses LBX over UAC. I'm saying that a 15 damage C LBX10 will be ridiculous powerful even with the spread. The comparison is that LBX to the UAC.
If you are saying that it having spread is a qualitative problem, and you are strictly wrong. That's only a problem if the spread is so high it's hitting many components, which won't be more than two with current value. Just like with UAC, you're going to be spreading damage at range unless the target is a potato.
I'd gladly take heat scale free, never jamming, no burst first, "LBX15" over UAC10. Hell, some Kodiak3 Pilots preferred the Ghost Heat free LBX10 x4 over the UAC10 x4, and that was before UAC10's heat scale was nerfed.
And you'd be wrong
Simple as that
Feel free to be wrong, but try to avoid spreading that nonsense.
An LB15 would be worse than a LB20x presently is...which is bad. Borderline usable, at best.
A better LB20x might change my mind on taking one, instead of the completely superior Goose Waffle
Bottom line: Use what YOU want and YOU favor. If you're comfortable and good with either, why should you care about anyone's opinion to the contrary? Just play your game.
Could the LBX use some work? Sure. Will it get any? Unlikely. I happen to find it useful in certain circumstances and often switch between it and the AC10 on my longer ranged Cataphract build. It's all about the map, your engagement range, and your accuracy. Every weapon has a viable sweet spot and it's up to the pilot to take advantage of it. The LBX gives someone a larger margin for error with a shot and that spread could be the difference between a potential kill or severely incapactitating blow to a miss and incoming fire that kills you.
As far as tiers go, they're somewhat irrelevant seeing that if anyone plays enough, they'll eventually get to tier 1. That won't necessarily mean they're a tactically sound and savvy pilot; on the contrary, bad habits are bad habits no matter what your tier and can lead to your death no matter what tier you occupy.
If you are saying that it having spread is a qualitative problem, and you are strictly wrong. That's only a problem if the spread is so high it's hitting many components, which won't be more than two with current value. Just like with UAC, you're going to be spreading damage at range unless the target is a potato.
Yes, you got that right. The proposed double increase in damage is counteweighted by drastic increase in spread (up to x5-x10). Nobody asked a grand damage buff with hspread left as is, at max a 10-20% damage buff with spread left as is. So stop using same argument over and over. Read the sugesstions not to the first ofending statement, but to the end.
Here's a few pretty simple changes that would make the LB-X/10 a good weapon, but still different from regular AC/10.
On LB-X:
Keep spread
Keep pellet damage
Make it able to crit where there is 10 armour or less.
Increase crit chance to 100 % per pellet.
Regular AC/10 would still be superior for pinpoint damage, against mechs with good armour and at range.
LB-X/10 would be superior against mechs with low or no armour, especially in close to medium range.
LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 03 August 2016 - 04:39 AM
Yellonet, on 03 August 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:
Here's a few pretty simple changes that would make the LB-X/10 a good weapon, but still different from regular AC/10.
On LB-X:
Keep spread
Keep pellet damage
Make it able to crit where there is 10 armour or less.
Increase crit chance to 100 % per pellet.
Regular AC/10 would still be superior for pinpoint damage, against mechs with good armour and at range.
LB-X/10 would be superior against mechs with low or no armour, especially in close to medium range.
Light mechs might get disproportionately shafted though. Not only many of them have mere 10-20 armor per section, their internals are also of low value and get busted by your 100% crit real fast.
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Violet Vitriol Price, on 02 August 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:
