108 replies to this topic

[Drunken Skull]

OK, recently I poste my Archer Tempest Build. In it I have used C.A.S.E in the left and right torso's to protect the XL from Ammo Explosion. I found this works great and Improves the survivability of the mech substantially. Despite my testimony I have been "Trolled" with "friendly advice" that my build sucks and the C.A.S.E does nothing to help my mech.

Good try guys, I almost bought into your BS...

If case does nothing for the XL engine then WHY is it STANDARD KIT on the STOCK ARCHER ARC-5W ??!!

The C.A.S.E works. End of story.

EDIT: MYTH BUSTED!
The importance of Critical Slot padding is the answer to the increased survival rate here, C.A.S.E DOES NOT directly prevent the XL from being destroyed.

Thanks to everyone who helped me grasp the situation I found myself in.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 30 July 2016 - 11:07 PM.

[Hal Greaves]

[Felicitatem Parco]

CASE stops ammo explosions from carrying over to the next compartment over. It does not save the compartment it is installed in.

It is standard kit because in the TableTop game you frequently play games that last through multiple repair intervals, and it is cheaper and faster to repair an engine that is only 25% destroyed than one that is completely cored-out.

[Signal27]

Because of the way CASE works from the original BattleTech rules. Let me explain:

Ammo explosions in the tabletop games were very deadly things to the victim. If your ammo exploded either because of a critical hit by enemy fire or heat, your mech took massive damage because of the way the rules worked, and this usually resulted in your mech dying right then and there.

Let me use an example: Machine Gun ammo. One ton of ammo is 2000 shots. They way the rules worked, if that ton of ammo exploded, YOUR MECH TOOK 4000 DAMAGE! And the armor values from table top are only half of the numbers you see in MWO. So if that ton of ammo was mounted in a side torso, the side torso would be gone and then the rest of the damage would "bleed over" to the center torso and wipe it out.

CASE came along in a rules update, but the way it worked is that it contained the explosion to just one body part. So using the example above, if the machine gun ammo exploded, the side torso would be gone but none of it would "bleed over" to the center torso. It never prevented the ammo explosion in the first place.

I have no idea why CASE is mounted into the side torso of an Archer. Chalk it up to bad mech design.

Anyhow, the rules for ammo explosions in MWO are less severe. And this is one change I'm glad the developers made.

Edited by Signal27, 30 July 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[Drunken Skull]

It's there because it protects the XL. PGI have "re-imagined it" and here is the proof. Tell me it dont work till your black and blue in the face but I have PROOF.

1. Without it I die allot, with it I am last man standing in a match despite having cored torso's and ammo explosions.
2. It is used in STOCK mechs THE SAME WAY.

The "I don't know why it's there, it must be a mistake" is the poorest rebuttal I have heard yet.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 31 July 2016 - 03:16 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

OK, recently I poste my Archer Tempest Build. In it I have used C.A.S.E in the left and right torso's to protect the XL from Ammo Explosion. I found this works great and Improves the survivability of the mech substantially. Despite my testimony I have been "Trolled" with "friendly advice" that my build sucks and the C.A.S.E does nothing to help my mech.

Good try guys, I almost bought into your BS...

If case does nothing for the XL engine then WHY is it STANDARD KIT on the STOCK ARCHER ARC-5W ??!!

The C.A.S.E works. End of story.

Because in tabletop, where repair and rearm matters, CASE has a purpose.

In TT, if a robot has it's CT destroyed by an ammo explosion, it's totaled. Impossible to repair, kaput. CASE on an ISXL reduces an ammo explosion from "utterly destroy" to "killed but repairable", as it prevents the ammo explosion from wrecking the CT.

Since in MWO repairs are never needed, CASE + ISXL has no purpose- but they always sell stock designs as unmodified as possible with the notable exceptions of when an item doesn't exist in MWO, such as A-pods.

So that's why.

[MischiefSC]

Case keeps an ammo explosion from going to other segments. That's it. If you've got the anecdotal opinion that it works like a good luck charm.... Okay I guess?

So please identify the mechanic of it that protects your XL.

[Drunken Skull]

Ask PGI to identify it... I don't know how they programmed the thing...

The C.A.S.E is on STOCK mechs with XL engines, I'm guessing PGI decided that this would add "Balance" to the Inner Sphere XL, which to be honest is going the way of the dodo due to this very issue.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 31 July 2016 - 03:16 AM.

[Signal27]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

t's there because it protects the XL. PGI have "re-imagined it" and here is the proof. Tell me it dont work till your black and blue in the face but I have PROOF.

1. Without it I die allot, with it I am last man standing in a match despite having cored torso's and ammo explosions.
2. It is used in STOCK mechs THE SAME WAY.

The "I don't know why it's there, it must be a mistake" is the poorest rebuttal I have heard yet.

Sounds poor to you but that's just the way it is. I already explained to you how CASE worked in table top. But the Archer had a CASE anyway, in the table top. Maybe Prosperity Park is right in that it was meant for long term campaigns where you had to take engine repairs into consideration. Maybe the writer to wrote up the Archer for the books didn't completely understand how the rules for CASE worked.

Now, your own "proof" on the other hand, is anecdotal. In other words: The poorest proof I've heard yet.

[Brain Cancer]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

t's there because it protects the XL. PGI have "re-imagined it" and here is the proof. Tell me it dont work till your black and blue in the face but I have PROOF.

1. Without it I die allot, with it I am last man standing in a match despite having cored torso's and ammo explosions.
2. It is used in STOCK mechs THE SAME WAY.

I've sat there and tested it. CASE doesn't function at all like you imagine it does, and again- "ammo destroyed" isn't "ammo explosion". There is no "reimagining", because unlike TT, destroyed ammo only has a 10% chance of actually exploding, while critting it in TT is a 100% explosion.

But you keep wasting that ton on a useless piece of "protection", right alongside mounting a command console.

[Roadkill]

MischiefSC, on 30 July 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Case keeps an ammo explosion from going to other segments. That's it. If you've got the anecdotal opinion that it works like a good luck charm.... Okay I guess?

So please identify the mechanic of it that protects your XL.

Anecdotal evidence with confirmation bias, no less!

Powerful combo. I dare say it's OP.

[Mole]

Uhm... the C.A.S.E. really DOESN'T help your 'mech... if you think it is, you're imagining things. This is how C.A.S.E. works:

In an Inner Sphere battlemech, C.A.S.E. can only be installed in the side torsos. What C.A.S.E. does it stop an ammo explosion from spreading from the side torso to another component. It does not, however, save the side torso itself from destruction in the event of an ammo explosion that is powerful enough to outright destroy the side torso. If you have an XL engine installed in the world of Mechwarrior Online, that means instant death in the event of side torso destruction when piloting an Inner Sphere 'mech. And just in case you are unaware, you Archer is an Inner Sphere 'mech. So, since C.A.S.E. does not prevent the destruction of the side torso then if you are running an XL engine there is no point in having C.A.S.E. installed. It is only useful if you have a standard engine and wish to prevent an ammo explosion from spreading from your side torso to your center torso and outright killing you. The reason the Archer 5W comes with XL and C.A.S.E. standard is because as far as I know the destruction of a side torso on an XL engine in tabletop did not equate to instant death, and the stock builds of these 'mechs are taken straight from tabletop. C.A.S.E. on an XL is useful in tabletop, but the rules are a little different in Mechwarrior Online, so here, the C.A.S.E. on an XL engine is a waste of tonnage.

[Drunken Skull]

Love how all the Rulebook toting self-proclaimed EX-Sperts come crawling out of the woodwork because they think they know better. Does ECM in it's current state perform like the rulebooks say? So WTF makes you think C.A.S.E is implemented 100% to LORE?

I repeat;

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

OK, recently I poste my Archer Tempest Build. In it I have used C.A.S.E in the left and right torso's to protect the XL from Ammo Explosion. I found this works great and Improves the survivability of the mech substantially. Despite my testimony I have been "Trolled" with "friendly advice" that my build sucks and the C.A.S.E does nothing to help my mech.

Good try guys, I almost bought into your BS...

If case does nothing for the XL engine then WHY is it STANDARD KIT on the STOCK ARCHER ARC-5W ??!!

The C.A.S.E works. End of story.

GO AND LOOK AT THE ARCHER 5W... MISTAKE I THINK NOT!

Edited by Drunken Skull, 30 July 2016 - 11:48 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

Love how all the Rulebook toting self-proclaimed EX-Sperts come crawling out of the woodwork because they think they know better. Does ECM in it's current state perform like the rulebooks say? So WTF makes you think C.A.S.E is implemented 100% to LORE?

I repeat;



GO AND LOOK AT THE ARCHER 5W... MISTAKE I THINK NOT!

Again. You're absolutely wrong. If I blow out your ST with an XL and case do you still die?

If I strip armor off your ST and spray it with an MG, the odds are 1 in 10 the ammo will explode and destroy everything in the ST - that includes your XL.

Case doesn't impact that in any way at all. It says so in the description and mechanics for it and it plays out in gameplay. You having an opinion and anecdotal examples of when you won the 1 in 10 gamble doesn't change that.

If you have identified a game mechanic then please identify exactly what game mechanic is doing what you say.

Edited by MischiefSC, 30 July 2016 - 07:33 PM.

[Drunken Skull]

Keep your heads in the mud. Makes it easier for the rest of us

Edited by Drunken Skull, 30 July 2016 - 11:49 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Keep your heads in the mud. Makes it easier for the rest of us

Identify the game mechanic then.

Read the description of it in game.

Or are you happy just being wrong, demonstrative lyrics wrong and pretending to be smug?

[Roadkill]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

GO AND LOOK AT THE ARCHER 5W... MISTAKE I THINK NOT!

Archer 5W carries case in TT, for the reasons already explained to you in this thread.

From Sarna:

•ARC-5W The 5W was an upgrade of the 2W variant, and was produced for the Wolf's Dragoons by Bowie Industries at Alarion. This was done in an orbital 'Mech repair facility which was converted into a 'Mech assembly line. Introduced in 3050, the 'Mech was upgraded with an XL Engine to save weight and used ten double heat sinks for greater heat dissipation. It retained the two LRM-20 launchers but replaced all other weaponry with one TharHes Blue SRM-4 launchers in each arm and a Narc Missile Beacon launcher in the center torso. The 5W was supplied with four tons of LRM reloads, two tons of SRM reloads, and two tons of Narc reloads, all carried in the CASE-protected side torsos.

Sorry, brah, it doesn't work the way you think it does. CASE on IS Mechs with XL engines is a holdover from TT, where it has (limited) value in campaign settings. It's equally useless in TT in single battles for the same reason that it's useless in MWO - it doesn't actually protect the three engine crits in the side torso, which is sufficient to destroy the Mech.

PGI only very rarely changes stock builds, and that's primarily to make rear-firing weapons fire forward instead, or to move leg-mounted weapons into the side torso. Everything else stays stock so that it's less work for them to create the Mechs.

[Drunken Skull]

Funny how internet trolls all over DEMAND THE PROOF, without ever having any to PROVE their own argument isn't it?

Look at the ARCHER 5W and tell me what you see in it's loadout? THERE is the PROOF. Can you prove that that loadout doesn't work? Where is your proof?

Remember this is PGI's MWO not traditional TT Btech, your decades of "EX-Spert-Tease" is useless here.

It took quite a lot of convincing for myself even to begin with as I thought along the same lines you are thinking right now. I decided to be a DERP and try it, and guess what? It Works, the "Cellular" is REAL!. My deaths to Ammo Explosion plummeted from 70% to 10% (that 10% not due to explosion but due to sufficient damage to completely destroy the torso).

Edited by Drunken Skull, 30 July 2016 - 11:51 PM.

[FupDup]

It would be nice if IS CASE was buffed up to the stats of CASE II. Maybe even make it boost ST structure a little bit. Clan CASE will stay the same since it has zero tons and zero slots.

Yes, I realize I just committed high heresy and have been accordingly marked for death by the neckbeards. No, I don't care.

And don't suggest making ammo explosions more lethal, because that could possibly result in a situation where the risks are higher than the rewards...like with most of the ammo-based weapons in TT. 100% chance (with full damage) ammo explosions would only be balanced if all ballistics and missiles were overwhelmingly superior to energy weapons in all situations in order to justify the extremely high level of risk.

Edited by FupDup, 30 July 2016 - 07:40 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Here's the link to the wiki.

http://mwo.gamepedia...Equipment_(CASE)

Please, cook the crow before you eat it. No telling what you could get.

The only one trolling here is you. It describes what it does in the mech lab even.