108 replies to this topic

[Mole]

MischiefSC, on 30 July 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

See, anyone who pugs sees this sort of potato so much it's actually more likely to NOT be a Poe.

People taking LB5x, erll and Streak 4 on a Kit fox to FW 'that LBX is a crit seeker though'. "I play better with a joystick" while watching them flail back and forth so wildly they can't maintain a LRM lock not to mention shoot a real weapon at a target effectively.

Terribads with terribad ideas are not uncommon here.

I killed an Ebon Jaguar today that was equipped with nothing more than 3 LB-5-X cannons. I pointed him out over VOIP and everyone else who had a microphone legit started laughing at him.

[MischiefSC]

Mole, on 30 July 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

I killed an Ebon Jaguar today that was equipped with nothing more than 3 LB-5-X cannons. I pointed him out over VOIP and everyone else who had a microphone legit started laughing at him.

But but... crit seeking! Cool running!

Worthless.

Bads gonna bad man. Can't fix bads.

[Drunken Skull]

Chuck Jager, on 30 July 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

All that is needed is a screen shot of an XL mech missing the torso, pretty sure you can not get the proof for the XL and it would be easy to photoshop a dead paper doll missing shoulder into a screenshot where the mech is live.

You could get proof by making a video of you and another player in a private match where you start with the loud out and then go and lose your shoulder and see if you survive.

If the game is using a version of object oriented programming there could be a glitch/programmer error with how variables are named, properties are inherited or conditions are applied by a simple variable naming mistake or some change triggering this. I have seen an upgrade by the vendor of the servers mess with how a language work. For a long time you could fire IS UAC's with zero jam chance at a certain interval and we still have a zero tonnage faster lock time for Streaks with Artemis and there was the no cooldown hyper macro that caused machine guns to get nerfed.

I am still waiting to find out what the exact target info time for CAP is or if it is only part of the text and not an actual bonus. Why take a tc2 for 2 tons if CAP and a tc1 gives you faster info and blocks ecm. I know what the game says I just want the actual number.

I'm not saying that my mech can survive without it's side torso, which is the screenshot your asking for, that simply isn't possible, as the loss of the side torso means death to the engine.

What I AM saying is that the C.A.S.E prevents the other crits in that torso section from being destroyed with the ammo should a ton of it explode. I know how it's "meant to work", I've been a die-hard fan of Btech, Maccross, and Crusher Joe since well before the age of decent computer games. I'm saying PGI hs made it work different for "Inner Sphere" C.A.S.E.

If you were dropping in Clan mechs; this means nothing to the topic at hand as Inner Sphere equipment works completely different.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 30 July 2016 - 11:57 PM.

[El Bandito]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

OK, recently I poste my Archer Tempest Build. In it I have used C.A.S.E in the left and right torso's to protect the XL from Ammo Explosion. I found this works great and Improves the survivability of the mech substantially. Despite my testimony I have been "Trolled" with "friendly advice" that my build sucks and the C.A.S.E does nothing to help my mech.

Good try guys, I almost bought into your BS...

If case does nothing for the XL engine then WHY is it STANDARD KIT on the STOCK ARCHER ARC-5W ??!!

The C.A.S.E works. End of story.

This guy's delusion is even worse than that of the other schmuck's who swears LBX is fine.

CASE in MWO does nothing for the survivability of IS XL mech. Selective memory is my best guess.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 July 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Mole]

MischiefSC, on 30 July 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

But but... crit seeking! Cool running!

Worthless.

Bads gonna bad man. Can't fix bads.

I don't think LB cannons are that awful but if you're gonna load LB cannons on your ebon jag why not bring dual 10s instead of triple 5s? Honestly. Let me check on smurfy and make sure the ebon jag has the tonnage for two 10s before I put my foot in my mouth.


Aaaaand... yes. Yes it does. With room for 8.5 tons of ammo too, more ammo than you really need. Could probably get away with a few lasers too. So, let's see what I can make here...


And, voila. A better LB cannon Ebon Jaguar. Hm. That doesn't actually look half bad. I just might try that build when I get around to mastering the EBJ.

[Spheroid]

Mole I sent you a private match invite. Lets prove this guy wrong concretely. Do you have premium time? I have an Atlas-D with a 285XL, CASE and the rest of the torso is AC-20 ammo with no armor on RT.

Edited by Spheroid, 30 July 2016 - 08:35 PM.

[MischiefSC]

So drop in a private match with Spheroid and test it.

The ammo explosion will either have enough ammo in it to destroy your ST or it won't. It's not about critting anything. If you have enough ammo left that fails the 1 in 10 to destroy the structure in your internal structure it'll destroy the ST and your XL kills you.

You don't crit out XLs, the ST dies and if you've got an XL, you die. It's in the code that way. Someone shake Mcgral awake so he can post in the code snippet.

Ammo has 1 in 10 of exploding when hit. If it does it it does the remaining damage value of the ammo to the internal structure of the mech in that ST.

If that destroys the ST and you have an IS XL, you die.

The only thing CASE does is blow out your back armor on that ST and not transfer the damage forward to your CT.

Mole, on 30 July 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

I don't think LB cannons are that awful but if you're gonna load LB cannons on your ebon jag why not bring dual 10s instead of triple 5s? Honestly. Let me check on smurfy and make sure the ebon jag has the tonnage for two 10s before I put my foot in my mouth.


Aaaaand... yes. Yes it does. With room for 8.5 tons of ammo too, more ammo than you really need. Could probably get away with a few lasers too. So, let's see what I can make here...


And, voila. A better LB cannon Ebon Jaguar. Hm. That doesn't actually look half bad. I just might try that build when I get around to mastering the EBJ.

Run 2xuac10, 6 tons of ammo and 2 cermls.

Way better than LBX.

[Mole]

Spheroid, on 30 July 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

Mole I sent you a private match invite. Lets prove this guy wrong concretely. Do you have premium time? I have an Atlas-D with a 285XL, CASE and the rest of the torso is AC-20 ammo with no armor on RT.

Yeah. I have premium time. Hold on, lemme get something with machine guns on it so maybe we can cause an ammo explosion too. Also, I don't know the first thing about recording gameplay, so I hope you've got that angle covered.

[UnofficialOperator]

Maybe just put 1 ton ammo for testing

[MischiefSC]

I love how we'll put way more effort into proving some nitwit wrong than we will using the PTS for legit game changes.

Go nuts you two.

[Mole]

Well, the test is done. I caused an ammo explosion in Spheroid's right torso with my Nova's machine guns. He dropped like a sack of potatoes despite the C.A.S.E.

[ProfessorD]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

I'm not saying that my mech can survive without it's side torso, which is the screenshot your asking for, that simply isn't possible, as the loss of the side torso means death to the engine.

What I AM saying is that the C.A.S.E prevents the other crits in that torso section from being destroyed with the ammo should a ton of it explode. I know how it's "meant to work", I've been a die-hard fan of Btech, Maccross, and Crusher Joe since well before the age of decent computer games. I'm saying PGI hs made it work different for "Inner Sphere" C.A.S.E.

If you were dropping in Clan mechs; this means nothing to the topic at hand as Inner Sphere equipment works completely different.

I'm a little surprised no one has asked this yet:

Drunken, how do you know when an ammo explosion has occurred that would have destroyed your side torso if CASE had not been present? It sounds like you've identified specific instances when this has happened. How did you do that?

Edited by ProfessorD, 30 July 2016 - 08:48 PM.

[Spheroid]

Here you go, Atlas destroyed by side torso destruction caused by ammo explosion. Opponent was Mole using only machine guns in a Nova.

Edited by Spheroid, 30 July 2016 - 08:50 PM.

[Drunken Skull]

Id suggest trying 3 tons of ammo per side torso with case and xl. Also I'd suggest using an Archer chassis as opposed to an Atlas. Also, I'd suggest using weaponry other than machine guns for the test, I think you've cored the engine with them.

What's the best way/program to record matches with? I'd gladly record several of my matches and post them for inspection.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 30 July 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[Tarogato]

Having a CASE in your ST is about as effective at saving your XL engine as having a half-ton of gauss ammo in your ST.

Here is the build in question: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d4f2af69568a37d

CASE prevents damage to the center torso in the event that an ammo explosion occurs in the side torso that the CASE is installed. CASE also occupies a crit slot in your side torso.

Without CASE, there are 10 crits occupied in each of your side torso, three of them being LRM ammo. There is a 25% chance for most weapons to invoke a single crit against an open component. There is a 3/10 chance (30%) that one of your ammo stores will take damage every time your open side torso takes a hit. There is a 10% chance that ammo will explode when it is destroyed by crits. 25% * 30% * 10% = 0.75% that you will suffer an ammo explosion.

With CASE, there are 11 crits occupied in each of your side torsos. Still 25% chance for weapons to cause critical damage, and 10% chance that ammo will explode when destroyed, but now since you have 11 occupied crits and 3 tons of ammo, you have a 3/11 chance (27%) that any one of your ammo stores will take damage. 25% * 27% * 10% = 0.68% chance that you will suffer an ammo explosion.

So yes, having CASE in your side torso does protect you against ammo explosions. But so does having a machine gun. Or a half-ton of gauss ammo. Or a flamer.

Edit: apparently I was wrong and CASE does not count as a valid component for critical hits. Therefore it is literally 100% useless with an XL engine. Actually... more than 100% useless, because it's also a waste of tonnage.



Better yet, don't store all your ammo in your side torsos. Also, as an LRM boat you're not going to get very much use out of BAP (since BAP simply extends your sensor range beyond where LRMs are useful anyways, and it counters ECM at a radius where you can't fire LRMs anyway). And Command Console is a joke, don't use it.

Improved build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d8b7874c4a022e1

Edited by Tarogato, 31 July 2016 - 06:04 AM.

[Bohxim]

Lol why are you guys still responding to this troll click bait.
XD

[Mole]

Drunken Skull, on 30 July 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Id suggest trying 3 tons of ammo per side torso with case and xl. Also I'd suggest using an Archer chassis as opposed to an Atlas. Also, I'd suggest using weaponry other than machine guns for the test, I think you've cored the engine with them.

*rolls eyes* Alright, Spheroid. I just put an XL engine in my Archer 5W which already has a CASE and 4 tons of ammunition in the right torso. We gonna do this again, or we just gonna let this guy continue thinking he's figured the world out and everyone else is wrong?

[Drunken Skull]

ProfessorD, on 30 July 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

I'm a little surprised no one has asked this yet:

Drunken, how do you know when an ammo explosion has occurred that would have destroyed your side torso if CASE had not been present? It sounds like you've identified specific instances when this has happened. How did you do that?

Ok, for starters you're in the first 1:30 of the match, you've yet to see an opponent, when an ECM arctic cheeta sneaks in behind you and alpha's you in the rear side torso with small pulse lasers, and then all of the sudden *BANG* End of game, cause of death: "Ammo Explosion". That is how.

[Spheroid]

While a poor beauty shot, the shower of sparks indicates a massive ammo explosion in the right torso. Again killing the XL equipped mech.

Edited by Spheroid, 30 July 2016 - 09:10 PM.

[Mole]

Opponent was Spheroid. Shot me in my side torso with machine guns. Side torso had CASE and 4 tons of ammo. Ammo explosion went off, side torso popped, went down.