111 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Oneda, I had a topic like this awhile ago where I was asking why some people just are generally as bad as they are.

Even still I really don't know what to tell you. Some people just don't care, don't want to do better, others are just drunk. If you don't want to deal with these people on your team you're basically forced into joining a unit that only plays sober and competitively.

Personally I love the ideas of being able to use tactics and play the game like my team is a bunch of commandos, but most of the time it feels like I'm stuck with a ragtag militia.

I've dropped to maybe 10-20 matches a week if that.

If you ever find a team that can field a 12 man and would like to competitively use 12 UAC20+3ERSL Adders, focus firing as lances and taking out all but one of an enemy assault lance per volley, I'd love to hear about it.

[Pilotasso]

This game attracted too many COD players due to its gameplay style. That's why the serious proper mentality audience has been drowned by the sheer amounts of trigger happy idiots.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Coolant, on 03 August 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

OP, what you are describing is bad tactical choices, not necessarily bad players.

In this game, consistently bad tactical choices imply bad players. Being good in this game isn't just about gunnery after all, positioning is very important.

[Alistair Winter]

xTrident, on 03 August 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

Lol, just Americans/America? I highly doubt that. I really think that's the norm for a lot of gamers.

I don't know if it's the norm, but gamers definitely have their own culture in this regard. And really, really dedicated gamers who play 30+ hours per week are probably more likely to enjoy gaming while drinking, smoking weed and/or popping pills, partially because of this culture and partially because they may stay in front of the computer and drink socially with people they're gaming with (via the webs) instead of drinking socially at pubs.

However... as a Norwegian, I never, ever hear anyone talk about drinking a bunch of beer or liquir or smoking weed alone, at home, in front of the computer. That would be a kind of social taboo, because the norm is to go out and get drunk or high with other people. Getting drunk on your own while playing video games isn't something that most people do.

I'm sure there are people who do it. But it's not in any way the norm for people who play video games. And in this day and age, who doesn't play video games?

GRiPSViGiL, on 03 August 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

The war on drugs is definitely not about stopping drugs anymore. It used to be more of a political hot button and has royally failed here. I think ALL drugs should be legal letting Darwin sort out those who choose to use. The money funding DEA and other agencies should be reallocated to something useful like public school systems.

I definitely think that strong penalties for people who use recreational drugs has proven very inefficient. For most drugs, it may be better to just make it legal and controlled by the state. But not all drugs, obviously. Some drugs are just too dangerous.

WarPickle, on 03 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Hey .. I am an American and I take offense to this.... you forgot that we take a lot of prescription medications also..... sheesh

Actually, I did mention prescription drug abuse. But you're right, that doesn't cover stuff like prescription weed, which isn't really abuse

Kubernetes, on 03 August 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Wtf dude have you been playing the entire time in Training Grounds?
Play with people on TS some time and maybe open your eyes to how many people from every part of the world are playing drunk or stoned. Americans only or primarily? Dude, you have no clue.

There are cultural differences in the world. I know, it's crazy to contemplate, even in the year 2016 with globalization and all. America has different drug habits than Europe. Anyway, America is a lot more homogenized than Europe, so it's kind of silly to speak in too general terms (but f*ck it, I did it anyway, because I'm a rebel).

After all, one can't really compare Norway (where it's tradition to go out with friends and drink until you vomit) with Italy (where alchol intake is usually more modest) or Russia (where vodka seems to be a national pastime, whether you're alone or not) or Holland (where weed has been part of mainstream culture for quite some time now).

So it's silly to speak of Europe as a single culture. But it's also silly to say that there aren't any differences between how different cultures in Europe use drugs and alcohol. Because there are differences.

Bishop Steiner, on 03 August 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

LOL!
Dude, the unit I'm assigned to is European. They are every bit as drunk and stoned, if not more, than my old USA unit was. You don't have Straight Edge, Tee-totallers and Bible Thumpers much across the pond anymore.
It's funny you say this, yet quality of play and competition goes up dramatically in USA primetime windows.
You want to talk about obesity, bad music and banal television, I'll totally agree with you. But for drunks and junkies? That's laughable hypocrisy.

Well, first of all, that doesn't really mean anything. Obviously there are people who are drunk and stoned in Europe. But there are cultural differences. I've probably heard Americans playing MWO talk about being drunk about 30-50 times more often than Europeans. And if anyone is considering playing the language barrier card to counter my argument, please don't be silly.

Europe doesn't have Straight edge, that's true. But then again, many European countries have a very relaxed relationship with drugs and alcohol. The need for that kind of counter-culture isn't the same in countries where youths and children grow up drinking wine with dinner from a young age, as opposed to states where you're not legally allowed to drink until you're 21. (I realize people don't normally wait until they're 21 to try alchol, the point is there are differences)

Quality of play and competition going up dramatically in USA primetime windows has zero bearing on my argument. After all, I'm not saying that everyone playing MWO in America are drunk. I'm just saying that some people playing the game are drunk or high. And those people will do inexplicable things sometimes. Because they're drunk or high. So what?

By the way, Bishop, I heard rumours you were given a short-time ban. Is that accurate or did you just go on holiday? And if you were banned, what for?

Revis Volek, on 03 August 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

FTFY, Most people who live here understand how stupid the "WAR" is on some of these alleged "DRUGS" you are talking about.
Liquor and beer are not drugs BTW and Weed is decriminalized in many places and even legal in some states. The country itself doesn't engage in much of anything other then Fast Food and diabetes.

Well, alcohol is technically considered a drug, I think. At least according to Wikipedia. In Norway we call it 'rusmidler', which basically translates to "means of getting intoxicated". Technically, the word drugs is supposed to be used the same way, but I think people exclude coffee, energy drinks and alcohol, for example (those are all considered psychoactive drugs according to Wikipedia).

I think it's great that people in America are ready to reconsider their politics on drugs. Seems to be an awful lot of people in prison over there for possession of drugs and things like that. Who would be better for America in terms of having a more reasonable stance towards dealing with drugs? Hillary or Trump? Or wouldn't it really matter all that much?

Edited by Alistair Winter, 03 August 2016 - 12:36 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

PyckenZot, on 03 August 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

So many things to say, analyse and propose solutions to,...

Again,...

So I wont bother and just put an additional question up:
"why does every drop where no direction is called end up with a Counter Clockwise movement?"

Most mechs hard points favour right handed builds, ergo they go counter clockwise,

[Alistair Winter]

FuhNuGi, on 03 August 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Not too sure what this has to do with poor implementation of group tactics, or constructive conversation... sounds more like a bash, like someone saying "Norway sux because it's governmental philosophy makes for poor gameplayers".

Sounds accurate.

FuhNuGi, on 03 August 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

As a response to the off topic swipe, the war on drugs is over, reduced to local battles of bureaucracy for funding derived from fines. There are quite a few players who are gaming impaired without adding any outside agents. Some others flourish with the assistance of an additive, although some are quite detrimental to your health (more people die from alcohol related issues than thc issues for a reality check)

I'm no expert on the American criminal justice system, but don't you still have some rather harsh sanctions for people involved in drug-related crime? I didn't know the war on drugs was over, although I have seen that weed is getting legalized almost everywhere.

FuhNuGi, on 03 August 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Mentor the tactically challenged drunken Norwegian 4 year old driving the Dire Wolf, for some day he may be your lancemate.

How rude.

[Kubernetes]

Alistair: "There are cultural differences in the world. I know, it's crazy to contemplate, even in the year 2016 with globalization and all. America has different drug habits than Europe. Anyway, America is a lot more homogenized than Europe, so it's kind of silly to speak in too general terms (but f*ck it, I did it anyway, because I'm a rebel."

Do you live in some isolated bubble in Norway? I play with mostly Europeans, and many of them are stoned or have had a few (or many) drinks. Seriously, you need to stop with these broad-brushed "Americans do this, Europeans do that" cliches, because you're way off base.

Bishop Steiner, on 03 August 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

don't forge the Wannabes. You know the quasi tryhards that aren't really good enough to be real Tryhards, so they skulk around potato farming, and pretending to be tryhards.

Nah, I put them all in the same bucket (<---heh).

After all, the term is TRY-Hard, not BE-Hard.

Edited by Kubernetes, 03 August 2016 - 12:56 PM.

[jss78]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

I don't know if it's the norm, but gamers definitely have their own culture in this regard. And really, really dedicated gamers who play 30+ hours per week are probably more likely to enjoy gaming while drinking, smoking weed and/or popping pills, partially because of this culture and partially because they may stay in front of the computer and drink socially with people they're gaming with (via the webs) instead of drinking socially at pubs.

However... as a Norwegian, I never, ever hear anyone talk about drinking a bunch of beer or liquir or smoking weed alone, at home, in front of the computer. That would be a kind of social taboo, because the norm is to go out and get drunk or high with other people. Getting drunk on your own while playing video games isn't something that most people do.

Interesting that this is so unusual in Norway that you associate it with USA. Because I'm sitting in a neighbouring country of yours (Finland), and sitting at home drunk and/or high is most certainly something people do here.

I guess it's something of a taboo here too, in that it's not something you're proud of doing. But in reality it's also a quintessential national pastime.

There's even a word for this in Finnish, kalsarikänni, literally means "the act of sitting home, in your underwear, getting heavily drunk". All that's missing there is some MechWarrior action, right?

(Though personally, I'm a teetotaller.)

Edited by jss78, 03 August 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[Novakaine]

EvilCow, on 03 August 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Splitting queues by age would be a good idea. I think most of us 40+ neckbeards would agree and pay an extra for that.

You might be on to something I'd pay for a over forty room.

[Alistair Winter]

jss78, on 03 August 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Interesting that this is so unusual in Norway that you associate it with USA. Because I'm sitting in a neighbouring country of yours (Finland), and sitting at home drunk and/or high is most certainly something people do here.
I guess it's something of a taboo here too, in that it's not something you're proud of doing. But in reality it's also a quintessential national pastime.
There's even a word for this in Finnish, kalsarikänni, literally means "the act of sitting home, in your underwear, getting heavily drunk". All that's missing there is some MechWarrior action, right?

(Though personally, I'm a teetotaller.)

Well, I hope you don't find this insulting, but I was going to use Finland as an example before I swapped to Russia. I agree, it definitely seems to be an essential part of Finnish culture as well. Well, at least as the stereotype of Finnish people getting drunk on vodka in saunas. Or do you drink other spirits?

[Stone Wall]

Not everyone playing MWO currently played other MW games online for years. That's probably it. Some people just need 3 or 4 more years of experience before "getting gud."

[FupDup]

A few possible causes:

A. This IP attracts a lot of grognards/neckbeards who don't have much experience in FPS-type games, or games in general.

B. Building off of point A, there are some people who haven't even played a previous MW game before this one.

C. This game's skill floor is a lot higher than many other games.

D. This IP attracts a lot of older players who sometimes have slower reflexes.

[Stone Wall]

I agree 100% Fup.

[Mole]

@OP: I dunno man. MWO hardly seems like a special case. I see people going full ****** like this in pretty much every somewhat similar game I've ever played such as World of Tanks and War Thunder.

[Zordicron]

It is still summer vacation.

Didn't you know? In the USA, the little kids don;t have to go to school for the summer, but Mom and Dad(sometimes only one, sometimes there is only one) have to go to work. This means 13 year old Johnny Suicide has time to kill, and is making his rounds between MWO, CoD, PS2, etc doing whatever and mostly not actually trying. Because the alternative to sitting on his *** on the couch playing nintendo is to go outside or otherwise actually move. So even though they are online, they don;t have any real desire to play.

It's the modern version of " I'm bored" you are seeing. instead of sitting outside on the porch throwing rocks or killing ants with a magnifying glass, kids these days just log in and **** around on whatever game doesn't ban them for it.

Just wait about a month, things will get a little more normal.

[Bilbo]

Zordicron, on 03 August 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

It is still summer vacation.

Didn't you know? In the USA, the little kids don;t have to go to school for the summer, but Mom and Dad(sometimes only one, sometimes there is only one) have to go to work. This means 13 year old Johnny Suicide has time to kill, and is making his rounds between MWO, CoD, PS2, etc doing whatever and mostly not actually trying. Because the alternative to sitting on his *** on the couch playing nintendo is to go outside or otherwise actually move. So even though they are online, they don;t have any real desire to play.

It's the modern version of &quot; I'm bored&quot; you are seeing. instead of sitting outside on the porch throwing rocks or killing ants with a magnifying glass, kids these days just log in and **** around on whatever game doesn't ban them for it.

Just wait about a month, things will get a little more normal.

Maybe true outside of prime time NA, but I really haven't noticed any difference in play during summer break in the evenings except during events. If someone is trying to grind through an event to see where they can place, they sometimes throw matches away on maps or modes they don't care for and/or that they don't think compliment their builds. This, as well as a general change in behavior by players, by conscience choice or not, is why I generally don't play much when events are occurring. Not that I play too much anymore anyway.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

There are a few reasons why players seem so bad in MWO. First of all, just like in say a less forgiving game of World of Warships or World of Tanks a poor tactical choice can quickly lead to a mech being crippled or dead. These bad tactical choices are often due to a lack of information, because the mentality is "well I haven't seen someone there means it should be clear" is pretty common.

Basically throw together low initial information means initial deployments can go horribly wrong.

Second part of this is that if your assaults bump into the enemy light lance while separate from the rest of their respective teams you will either compliment the assaults once the light lance is dead and your team is moving to protect what is left of the assault lance (who should be the rally point anyways) or bashing those "terrible fatties" for making a bad choice of taking the quickest path for them in the slowest mechs in the game while their mobile team left them to die. (This is more or less confirmation bias in effect.)

Third part is that PSR is all kinds of messed up, this is heavily based on my personal experience in MWO. When PSR came out I was dumped in T5, low T5, it was hell, this was where the true worst of the worst exist as you have pilots who are new to the game dumped in with players who joined MWO sometime in the year before PSR came out as well so their learning time is still on record for PSR calculation. Then throw in all the players who have played for a very long time who are just terrible anyways and you get misery incarnate. T4 was made up of people who initially were placed there (and have since hit T3 and beyond) while the people who managed to drag themselves out of T5 hit T4 and start playing against other players roughly their skill level which leads to a lot of close good games where people learn. Then you hit T3 which goes right back to hell again due to how PSR is currently set up. PSR boosts new players to T3 if they get lucky and don't lose too many matches in T5 and T4, so you suddenly have new players mixed in with people who dragged their way up to T4 and kept going up. So you have very green players, you have smurfs, you have people good players, and then you have players from T2 and T1 dropping in due to MM can't get them a match fast enough to not open the release valves. So that creates three true pools of players. Tier 5 which... that is not very fun with how frustrating it is to get a match where you have a team long enough to actually do something with, everyone dies with frightful speed. T4 where people are so happy to not be in T5 any more and have skills that they are chatty, relaxed, and willing to try tactics if someone speaks up. And then T3+ where it is just super frustrating again due to the mix of players are frustrating since PSR was not set up right causing these problems.

Just, what is needed is it shouldn't be the winning team that goes up with those who lost not going down if they breach the 250 match score threshold. We need it to work differently, how should it be? Up for debate, but, damage needs to in all honesty be made almost not matter to promote kill efficiency instead of damage farming, maybe just flat decouple Match Score and Payout from damage done or make it so it isn't half of the damage you do counts for your match score and make it far smaller, as well as decreasing the payout based on damage done rest of rewards should go way the hell up due to paul-economy was not fun and I don't want to struggle to get cbills anymore than I currently am and I do not like the thought of how rough it would be for new players to afford anything. Hell increasing rewards for everything but damage would help new players actually not burn out on the cbill grind and buy MC to decorate their hard earned mechs that they bought with Cbills and put a personalized loadout on with cbills.

[Elizander]

I just had a match where:

• We spotted lights behind the team early in the match and used the command wheel to call that out and someone mentions it on VOIP.
  
• Launched a UAV to detect said lights.
  
• Shot off lights
  
• Launched a second UAV to keep them spotted over terrain.
  
• Killed a BK, shot a Hellbringer and a Spirit Bear while targeting them.
  
• We got overwhelmed (me in a Dire and another assault).
  
• Team then gets backstabbed hard and remaining surviving team members complain that no one warned them that the enemy was behind them.

Edited by Elizander, 03 August 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[jss78]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

Well, I hope you don't find this insulting, but I was going to use Finland as an example before I swapped to Russia. I agree, it definitely seems to be an essential part of Finnish culture as well. Well, at least as the stereotype of Finnish people getting drunk on vodka in saunas. Or do you drink other spirits?

Oh, there's truth to that stereotype, though there's a distinct generational gap emerging. Lots of independent-minded youth nowadays consider heavy drinking boorish. At the same time though attitudes towards weed are becoming decidely casual. Overall I'd say the young people aren't so terribly different from their central/western European brethren.

All that said, if you run into a Finn in MWO on a Saturday evening, I'll give a less than 50% chance of him being sober.

As far as what's drunk -- not vodka primarily. That's mostly hardcore winos and maybe old people. I'd say mostly beer and increasingly wine also.

[Spam Lanwalker]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

Well, I hope you don't find this insulting, but I was going to use Finland as an example before I swapped to Russia. I agree, it definitely seems to be an essential part of Finnish culture as well. Well, at least as the stereotype of Finnish people getting drunk on vodka in saunas. Or do you drink other spirits?

You forget us Brits fella , the ave brit guy consumes a shocking amount of alchohol every week (and double at least on weekends )xd