The pattern is indeed there. Go back and look at flammers and how they were fixed, and then fixed again. The on going issues with long tom: Russ repeatedly saying it is working as intended, yet nerfing it twice and having a round table where alternatives were discussed. These things happen and continue to happen.
Ahh, the Flamergeddeon. I specifically (because they're my baby, and PGI kicked me in the teeth over them by ruining them and making them beyond useless) was told I was full of it when I was calling out a week before the patch hit -as soon as we knew the Flamer changes to be made- that PGI was walking into a death trap. I said they were going to break the game because of the Flamer exploits that have been known about -and I reported multiple times with PGI acknowledgement in support emails- for literal years if that change was allowed to go to live.
I was told I didn't know what I was talking about, everything would be fine, and I was just salty because it wasn't the change that "I" wanted. Then the patch hit, and I gave a very angry "I told you so" right to PGI. Russ said everything was working as intended at first, but then the forums, and more importantly twitter, exploded with torches and pitchforks because Flamers were ruining the game with their horrible exploit. The "hotfixes" ensued that re-broke the weapon and made it even worse, and with more convoluted mechanics, then it was before . . . but Russ was happy with it and now "they're great" only because he isn't hearing -every 5 seconds on twitter- about how Flamers are ruining the game.
Maybe if they actually gave Flamers the fix they deserve (along with MG's, LBX's, JJ's, Command Console, PPC's, etc.), then I'd be more enthused and have more faith in PGI . . . might even be willing to spend money again. That just falls back on the "low hanging fruit" mentioned earlier in the thread. It really would go a long way for the community as a whole.
They probably couldn't charge an entry fee (legal gambling reasons), but a 3 hour long prime time window fight event sounds pretty cool. The problem is people would want them somewhat often, and as with so many other good things PGI has done, after the 4th or 5th one they'll be forgotten about (RIP Comstar intercepts, Devlogs, Meet the Developers broadcast, secret cbill sales, etc).
It would be pretty darn easy to setup a standing leaderboard event every Tuesday night from 7-10 pm (probably need to do one for the EU and Aus as well) and rotate through chassis. This might even get people in the 'habit' of playing MWO. Regular scheduled community events announced more than 36 hours in advance? AMAZING.
Raid Game mode: attacker. Defender. Break open the supply dumps, run off with supply caches. Make a generic one and the MC one we currently have. Attacker gets what they can get away with. Defenders get what they can defend.
Prime time in every time zone we have a server.
What good and interesting game modes and level design look like
If you let it run the next video is another game mode, another 5 minute instruction intro. Look at the level of complexity, the different points to fight over. Onslaught mode has tanks, jeeps, aircraft, and turrets that i can remember. check it on youtube if you have the interest, i recommend it.. There is even an "in space" fighter mode. All this they had 12 years ago, surley there is some inspiration for PGI here? I know the gameplay will horrify some people but imagine if we had game modes like this.
A while ago somebody posted about wishing they were playing someting else, honestly when i play mwo, i often wish i was playing ut2k4.
I think a guy on Reddit stated a large part of the two sides of the argument well when he said
Quote
I would rather have practical, fun, and (with PGI this is a stretch) well balanced mech variants that are totally made up than a steaming piece of **** ripped straight from the lore and brought into the game.
and I replied
Quote
see thats the difference, I want a battletech game... IE what they advertise rather than a steaming piece of **** they made up on their own brought into the game.
What good and interesting game modes and level design look like
If you let it run the next video is another game mode, another 5 minute instruction intro. Look at the level of complexity, the different points to fight over. Onslaught mode has tanks, jeeps, aircraft, and turrets that i can remember. check it on youtube if you have the interest, i recommend it.. There is even an "in space" fighter mode. All this they had 12 years ago, surley there is some inspiration for PGI here? I know the gameplay will horrify some people but imagine if we had game modes like this.
A while ago somebody posted about wishing they were playing someting else, honestly when i play mwo, i often wish i was playing ut2k4.
Ahh, the Flamergeddeon. I specifically (because they're my baby, and PGI kicked me in the teeth over them by ruining them and making them beyond useless) was told I was full of it when I was calling out a week before the patch hit -as soon as we knew the Flamer changes to be made- that PGI was walking into a death trap. I said they were going to break the game because of the Flamer exploits that have been known about -and I reported multiple times with PGI acknowledgement in support emails- for literal years if that change was allowed to go to live.
I was told I didn't know what I was talking about, everything would be fine, and I was just salty because it wasn't the change that "I" wanted. Then the patch hit, and I gave a very angry "I told you so" right to PGI. Russ said everything was working as intended at first, but then the forums, and more importantly twitter, exploded with torches and pitchforks because Flamers were ruining the game with their horrible exploit. The "hotfixes" ensued that re-broke the weapon and made it even worse, and with more convoluted mechanics, then it was before . . . but Russ was happy with it and now "they're great" only because he isn't hearing -every 5 seconds on twitter- about how Flamers are ruining the game.
Maybe if they actually gave Flamers the fix they deserve (along with MG's, LBX's, JJ's, Command Console, PPC's, etc.), then I'd be more enthused and have more faith in PGI . . . might even be willing to spend money again. That just falls back on the "low hanging fruit" mentioned earlier in the thread. It really would go a long way for the community as a whole.
I do enjoy how they didn't even "fix" that part...it went from X seconds of "cooldown" to X+4.75s of "cooldown"
...or that the magical fix, bringing the Flamer from absolute trash tier to niche viable weapon was: A single number variation.
Starting the heat at 4.5H/s instead of ZERO
That's it...why can't they toy with numbers more than once every four Months?
Preferably useful numbers
I do enjoy how they didn't even "fix" that part...it went from X seconds of "cooldown" to X+4.75s of "cooldown"
...or that the magical fix, bringing the Flamer from absolute trash tier to niche viable weapon was: A single number variation.
Starting the heat at 4.5H/s instead of ZERO
That's it...why can't they toy with numbers more than once every four Months?
Preferably useful numbers
No kidding. You forgot to mention that they also took away basically all of its damage, even though the thing in tabletop does the same damage as MG's and AC2's to any target, including mechs, in addition to the heat damage (I'm not saying it needs to be tabletop, but I'm saying it should do actual notable damage). Thusly that "niche" is such a trivial and meaningless niche that the flamer would have been better off left as it was before any of the "fixes".
Regardless, if they'd just iterate regularly on everything that desperately needs it then that would go a LONG way to helping people's faith in the game.
Some of those iterations and fixes already exist. They've had a working ECM non-god-bubble fix on the PTS during the rebalance runs and they never put it in the live game. WHY?!?!? It received the best feedback of everything on the PTS; and it was completely viable to push forward on its own. Yet PGI lets things like that languish in the background, never to be seen again because it's been over a year and "Info Warfare isn't ready".
JackalBeast, on 09 August 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:
That's programming right? Don't you know programming is a science and requires months of arduous research and testing to ensure stability?
Actually most of the "low hanging fruit" that we've been talking about, like weapon and equipment fixes, are nothing but XML tweaks to values on an equipment spreadsheet. Players like Mcgral18 have already parsed the files and put forth well-balanced proposals for PGI to try. We just haven't seen PGI attempt to do any balancing, besides quirks (which are also just XML tweaks), for around a year+ now.
Some of those iterations and fixes already exist. They've had a working ECM non-god-bubble fix on the PTS during the rebalance runs and they never put it in the live game. WHY?!?!? It received the best feedback of everything on the PTS; and it was completely viable to push forward on its own. Yet PGI lets things like that languish in the background, never to be seen again because it's been over a year and "Info Warfare isn't ready".
Should I state that's also a single variable change?
That's the "targetingfactor", the one thing that changed on the Magic Jesus Box, what I like to call the Magic Jesus Field
Currently, set to "0.25", or 25% of your sensor range (typically 200M). At that distance, you can see Jesus Field Covered Doritos
The PTS removed that entirely, with a 1.00 value, or 100%. No reduction, Doritos as far as the eye can see. However, it still affected a few things, BAP IIRC.
Turning it off made the difference between a 200M sensor range difference on my Myth Lynx
Yeah sereglach sorry my very strong sarcasm didn't come through in text form. I'm aware that although other aspects may require some coding a number of these simpler issues could be adjusted somewhat on the fly. McGral be speakin do truf per usual. Only time I was ever at odds with him was when my mind was addled with Kodiak mania lol. Thing is still a model for glass cannon ttk syndrome but that is another matter entirely.
Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 August 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:
You know, the last time I saw this much unrest was when Gendisc dissapparated
Even then, there were still plenty of white knights on the forum, saying "Well, you guys are all terrible, so no wonder our glorious leaders had to remove GD!"
Now there's like 3-4 white knights left. One of them started a thread about how to make Tina & Russ be more active on the forum and his thread got locked by a PGI staff member.
The Forums lost almost all of its credibility way way back with the 3PV debacle they themselves created. Ever since then, PGI knew that they were pretty much having to go it alone, and did exactly that.
What does that mean for those of us who joined more recently? What if we want to be part of the community? Do we have to join NGNGtv's twitch (NA times only, sorry)? Do we have to open a twitter account just for that?
The game itself links you to these forums. In these forums I received lots of good advice when I was new because there was no NPE in game. In these forums I have made feature suggestions in the feature suggestions subforum that have not even received a "received" from the devs. If this was a complete PvE game I would not need this kind of interaction: but it is an incomplete social game, and so we do need a community space. The only reason I got a bit jaded was the wacky dynamic of patch-remove-hotfix as well as clearly botched things like the CW solo queue (removed a week after being introduced without even asking us about it).
If the devs don't see this forum as useful, then just close it down. I am sure we will go elsewhere.
LocationSomewhere where you'll probably never go to
Posted 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM
Alistair Winter, on 09 August 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:
Even then, there were still plenty of white knights on the forum, saying "Well, you guys are all terrible, so no wonder our glorious leaders had to remove GD!"
Now there's like 3-4 white knights left. One of them started a thread about how to make Tina & Russ be more active on the forum and his thread got locked by a PGI staff member.
You forgot to mention WHY it was locked... because people couldn't even be remotely on topic, even if little.
On the other hand.... I too, had my topic locked for giving PGI compliments back in late 2014. Hell, even had Russ come post onto my thread. Got closed because of some insults towards the Devs and then some thanks to a salty player back then who no longer comes around here.
(Most of this is a regurgitation of what you said in the OP Alistar, so excuse me if I repeat some of what you said.)
You know, I'm going to tell you the problem right now with the community; We want more than what PGI can give us. We want them to come out with ALL of the things that may sound good, but may not.
Because let's be honest; we all have at some point if you've been on the forums for the past year consistently, a bad idea. When we start getting an influx of all these ideas and they can't, as some people think, can't deliver or make it happen, people take it as PGI not listening, which isn't very.. as they say, applicable to them, for reasons I can't say, or have to explain at all.
Of course, PGI could come on some threads and post, I mean, at least twice or thrice a week post something that is informational or just to talk.That's the part I think people want, aside from all their ideas wanting to be implemented.
I think the best thing PGI could do for this community is post as above stated, a few times a week. and it doesn't have to be informational all the time either.
And that was my problem back then. I won't say due to discussing Moderation is against CoC, but I went somewhere where I shouldn't, and I didn't explode like a myth Lynx under a hail of LRMs, I just left.
And you know what? this weekend I played a bit, with some people streaming and whatnot, and a few friends from Reddit and the forums here, and had fun. you hear that? FUN!
And if we just sit here and wither and just spit the form of hate or disheartening towards them, how is that beneficial towards us as a community? how is that going to work? I've said it in the past and I'll say it again; it makes no sense, as an example, to go to the company that makes some product and say nasty things about them and then expect them to comply or even communicate with that, even if they are at fault for originally not communicating and whatnot.
You think I'm a white knight? Go over there... yes, you see that? you see it? look closer.... yeah. there's nothing, is there? I don't care where this game goes now so long as I have fun, and if I'm not I just take a break and do something else, no need to come here to the forums complaining about locusts being too strong or something completely ignorant due to their feelings and attitude at the time. (And again, we've all done this at some point in time, not just the forums)
Short summary?
-All these "great" ideas may not be so great, maybe good but not great.
- PGI can relieve stress and low spirited forumwarriors by communicating a bit more like Tina has recently, and they don't have to post 24/7 either.
-Yelling or spitting mentally or in words at a company that makes the game you play and expect results? no sense at all.
-The less you come here to complain and the more you play the game for fun the less you'll care about coming to the forums to gripe.
-Not having fun as said above? take a break. Oh yeah. there's a new BattleTech game coming too, go check it out when it arrives.
And a last one that you don't have to like if your don't want to:
-stop caring about the game's many many problems and just play what makes your day in it.
Meanwhile I'll go enjoy another game that has a reputation for being as many think a bad community but actually has some really nice and awesome people there that would play the game than rather go to their forums and complain.
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This topic is locked
Bud Crue, on 09 August 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:
