233 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

BLOOD WOLF, on 09 August 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

I dont think the op understands the concept of energy draw.

its a simple concept, in the name of Lawrence Krauss, science is best explained simply.

We know each mech is powered by an engine with a number. For now lest assume its number correpsonds with max capacity.

So a 375 XL Timberwolf has 375w of TDP. lets say some minor systems takes away 75 watts roughly.

You know have 300w for weapons.

now you make a build that has a max alpha draw of 400w.

Since we dont know exactly how they are doing it. We can assume that trying to fire an alpha will result in your mech trying to draw too much power. What usually happens to mechanisms that do that? they shut down, or at least function at a less than efficient capacity.

Energy draw is a sufficient name for it. Trying to play with the name is just a game of semantics.

Which would reinforce the BESM

Which isn't ideal

[BLOOD WOLF]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Which would reinforce the BESM

Which isn't ideal

whats BESM?

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 09 August 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

In Battletech, the fusion engine can generate arbitrary amounts of energy. The problem comes not from power available, but from heat management. If you spike your power draw, your engine generates additional waste heat, which gets dumped into the mech and needs to be sinked. The energy draw mechanic is simulating drawing more energy in a short period of time than your reactor can comfortably handle, pushing its power generation past recommended limits and spiking the heat it produces.

well it would depend on the size. Even the sun can only produce so much energy at a given time. Now granted the sun is massive and compared to that the size of an mech engine is minscule. Heat is a definite by product.

[FupDup]

BLOOD WOLF, on 09 August 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

whats BESM?

Big Engine Stomp Meta.

It refers to when mechs use some of the larger engines they have available, due to the large number of benefits given already (speed, agility, critslot savings). Note that it doesn't have to be the literal largest engine that the mech can fit, it just has to be close-ish to that point in order to qualify.

Mechs with low engine caps tend to suck in almost every case. Power/energy/whatever based on engine rating will only make low-engine mechs even crappier than they already are.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 09 August 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

Big Engine Stomp Meta.

It refers to when mechs use some of the larger engines they have available, due to the large number of benefits given already (speed, agility, critslot savings). Note that it doesn't have to be the literal largest engine that the mech can fit, it just has to be close-ish to that point in order to qualify.

Mechs with low engine caps tend to suck in almost every case. Power/energy/whatever based on engine rating will only make low-engine mechs even crappier than they already are.

Poor Highlander.

The one saving grace of the Sunder omni is that it has an XL 360 at least.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 09 August 2016 - 07:39 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

FupDup, on 09 August 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

Big Engine Stomp Meta.

It refers to when mechs use some of the larger engines they have available, due to the large number of benefits given already (speed, agility, critslot savings). Note that it doesn't have to be the literal largest engine that the mech can fit, it just has to be close-ish to that point in order to qualify.

Mechs with low engine caps tend to suck in almost every case. Power/energy/whatever based on engine rating will only make low-engine mechs even crappier than they already are.

yea, there are gonna need to be some trade-offs for bigger mechs. The PTS is gonna be interesting.

[Johnny Z]

To the topic title, doesn't "Energy Pool" make more sense? Or something like that?

Also what is the official title for this new mechanic? * never mind Energy Draw is the official name for this.

When is it expected to be in game?

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 August 2016 - 07:59 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Energy Draw is an adoptive title, I think.

[Andi Nagasia]

Johnny Z, on 09 August 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

To the topic title, doesn't "Energy Pool" make more sense? Or something like that?

Also what is the official title for this new mechanic? * never mind Energy Draw is the official name for this.

When is it expected to be in game?

Russ Says on Twitter the PTS for it will be very soon,
and he also says it has tested very Well internally,

[dervishx5]

Andi Nagasia, on 09 August 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

tested very Well internally,

[HellJumper]

Andi Nagasia, on 09 August 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

Russ Says on Twitter the PTS for it will be very soon,
and he also says it has tested very Well internally,

was its 'tested very well internally' like other thing they brought out before.. CW/FW? Mini map? movement? hitboxes? quirks? ghost heat etc etc


Also wont it be fun if they drop this idea after PTS because its liked by the player base.. (like they did it before for one of the feature...)

Edited by HellJumper, 09 August 2016 - 11:19 PM.

[Dino Might]

The problem with this "energy draw" being loosely explained by available reactor power is that a ballistic weapon uses chemical energy in the cartridge to propel the projectile. There is no reactor energy input other than feed mechanisms and recoil management (if there are electric motors to do that). Lasers would require much much more reactor power than a heavy autocannon.

I still think the idea is a bandaid, and unfortunately, we will be saddled with future balance decisions based on it. Already with the quirks and ghost heat, we are creating a type of Gordian knot, so that at some point, if things still aren't right, the only way to fix it will be to take an axe to the whole system and start from scratch.

In short, "this had better work."

Edited by Dino Might, 10 August 2016 - 03:51 AM.

[davoodoo]

Lets take something stock

For example hbk4g
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...79cb1883e8f7bdd
35 dmg alpha... yep, coolest mech on the planet will now "benefit" from ghost heat 2.0. Btw this mech in tt would generate 1 heat per turn with alpha and it had ammo only for 10 shots, it couldnt overheat by just firing its weapons.

But **** it, its only 50 tonner.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=336&l=stock
29 dmg alpha, dont you dare adding endo and xl engine and putting in pulses or gh2.0 will get you... IN A LIGHT ******* MECH...

Lets look at clans
nova
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...695a4f468b0a763
Forget firing even 1 hand without getting 48 dmg(which will probably lead to reactor meltdown), you can at best hope to fit ersl and its at peak...

But ofc lets look at something smaller
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c660d839c82fbcb
35 tonner, 36 dmg per alpha...
Is there even any comment needed??

**** properly made locust 1e with 6 mlas will reach 30 dmg alpha.
And btw, 6 uac5 shredding you to pieces?? absolutely fine, 30 dmg alpha...

**** calling it energy draw, dont call it balance and stop calling this mechwarrior...

Edited by davoodoo, 10 August 2016 - 04:20 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Dino Might, on 10 August 2016 - 03:50 AM, said:

The problem with this "energy draw" being loosely explained by available reactor power is that a ballistic weapon uses chemical energy in the cartridge to propel the projectile. There is no reactor energy input other than feed mechanisms and recoil management (if there are electric motors to do that). Lasers would require much much more reactor power than a heavy autocannon.

I still think the idea is a bandaid, and unfortunately, we will be saddled with future balance decisions based on it. Already with the quirks and ghost heat, we are creating a type of Gordian knot, so that at some point, if things still aren't right, the only way to fix it will be to take an axe to the whole system and start from scratch.

In short, "this had better work."

Well you touched on a possible explanation with that: recoil management.
Every movement and counter-movement in a 'mech is controlled by myomers. Myomers are the actual source of heat from 'mech movement, as the fusion engine's heat is mostly confined by a vacuum and heavy shielding.
I would imagine, since MW:O has no recoil on ballistics, that those myomers must need a decent amount of energy to keep the weapons platform so incredibly stable and accurate.

That is good enough handwavium to satisfy me.

[Almond Brown]

davoodoo, on 10 August 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

Lets take something stock

For example hbk4g
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...79cb1883e8f7bdd
35 dmg alpha... yep, coolest mech on the planet will now "benefit" from ghost heat 2.0. Btw this mech in tt would generate 1 heat per turn with alpha and it had ammo only for 10 shots, it couldnt overheat by just firing its weapons.

But **** it, its only 50 tonner.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=336&l=stock
29 dmg alpha, dont you dare adding endo and xl engine and putting in pulses or gh2.0 will get you... IN A LIGHT ******* MECH...

Lets look at clans
nova
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...695a4f468b0a763
Forget firing even 1 hand without getting 48 dmg(which will probably lead to reactor meltdown), you can at best hope to fit ersl and its at peak...

But ofc lets look at something smaller
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c660d839c82fbcb
35 tonner, 36 dmg per alpha...
Is there even any comment needed??

**** properly made locust 1e with 6 mlas will reach 30 dmg alpha.
And btw, 6 uac5 shredding you to pieces?? absolutely fine, 30 dmg alpha...

**** calling it energy draw, dont call it balance and stop calling this mechwarrior...

And here we thought no one knew yet how the new system was going to work... ? Well done son...

[Kaeb Odellas]

Hotthedd, on 10 August 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well you touched on a possible explanation with that: recoil management.
Every movement and counter-movement in a 'mech is controlled by myomers. Myomers are the actual source of heat from 'mech movement, as the fusion engine's heat is mostly confined by a vacuum and heavy shielding.
I would imagine, since MW:O has no recoil on ballistics, that those myomers must need a decent amount of energy to keep the weapons platform so incredibly stable and accurate.

That is good enough handwavium to satisfy me.

Were that the case, simply torso twisting or turning in place would generate far more heat from the actuators than firing an AC20 or Gauss Rifle. You would generate more heat from aiming the gun than firing it.

[Hotthedd]

Kaeb Odellas, on 10 August 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

Were that the case, simply torso twisting or turning in place would generate far more heat from the actuators than firing an AC20 or Gauss Rifle. You would generate more heat from aiming the gun than firing it.

Well, consider the heat from torso twisting and aiming factored into the base rate of dissipation, but recoil management needing to consume energy on top of that.
But remember, it is not about heat, but available energy.

I'm not saying I love the idea, I'm just trying to come up with a plausible justification for it.

I would rather have an actual heat scale, recoil effects, and a precision penalty for firing multiple weapons simultaneously.

...but that ain't gonna happen.

[Gas Guzzler]

Almond Brown, on 10 August 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

And here we thought no one knew yet how the new system was going to work... ? Well done son...

We have the basics. It's Ghost Heat with all weapons linked with a damage cap (initial value around 30) and with a HUD bar to indicate how close you get to the limit. There MIGHT be some relief for spread weapons like LBX and LRMS so their damage doesn't count 1 for 1, but that's a big maybe.

[Gunny Kintaro 4444]

this is a great idea im behind it 100%...

[InspectorG]

Escef, on 09 August 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

The very definition of an Autocannon is a cannon with an auto-loader. Unless you mean to say that there's a man hiding inside the mech manually extracting spent shell casings and reloading the cannon...

They don't automatically fire when an enemy is in the reticle.
don't read too much into this, it's a joke response to a joke thread.

[LordNothing]

Lyoto Machida, on 09 August 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

Well, the same applies to social media like Instagram but that's neither here nor there...

i haven't used social networking since i deleted my myspace account somewhere at the end of the 00s.