172 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

stVillain, on 17 August 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Switching engines isn't a thing. I know in this day and age when you get remastered editions of console games it definitely looks like a thing. But, there are entire companies dedicating years of labor in silence just so a publisher can announce the remaster is out in 3 months like it ain't no thing. Often times, articles are run post mortem about how those remasters aren't so much a remaster as building a game from the ground up, whole hog. yes, the team does have the luxury of the original resources. but that's like having notes while you study.

I think a lot of people don't understand the complexity of the operation or the real cost.

a bad example:
Take an MP3 file and switch out the ending .mp3 for .avi. now see if an avi player will recognise the file. if not. open the file in notepad and tell me what you need to change about that code to get it to run as an avi.
That is what you're asking them to do. like it ain't no thing.

More like they have master files FLAC versions off all their assets since they are done with the industry standard programs. It's more like exporting all the FLAC files to AAC (Unreal Engine 4) instead of crappy MP3 (CryEngine).

What is true is things like the UI and weapon systems would require a full rework most likely.

[Mystere]

Imperius, on 17 August 2016 - 01:54 AM, said:

MWO should have stayed what it was supposed to be. A CryEngine mod with BATTLETECH theme. The moment they stopped excepting updates from CryTECH and started programming their own code we went down a dark path.

Deathlike, on 17 August 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

They are a modmaking company (using existing engines and develop games with it).

Where are you people getting this idea that building games in CryEngine is basically just "modding"?

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 17 August 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Where are you people getting this idea that building games in CryEngine is basically just "modding"?

I suggest you look at the history of games PGI made prior to this one.

[Imperius]

Mystere, on 17 August 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Where are you people getting this idea that building games in CryEngine is basically just "modding"?

Because that is what using a prebuilt engine is!

Back in the day development meant you actually had to create your own engine then make your game. True game development is still that norm. Example is Destiny uses an in house engine. Metal Gear used the in house created Fox engine. Battlefield uses the in house Frostbite engine.

Unity
CryEngine
Unreal Engine

Are the standard engines used for small development groups indie studios.

MWO used to get engine upgrades... They stopped because if they continued to do so they would have lost dx 9 and for some reason someone thought we needed to keep that Windows XP direct X...

Edited by Imperius, 17 August 2016 - 12:56 PM.

[Tarogato]

I'm more worried about game design than I am the game engine. Cryengine 3 isn't holding back the game from having better weapon balance, or better mech balancing, or having better designed maps, or fixing collision geometry, or having better gamemodes, or better web design/leaderboards/stats, or better tournament/event management, or having better CW metagame, or having a PSR system that actually works the way one should, or having more information on the frontend to inform noobs about how the game works, or having most cosmetic items costing not-unreasonable sums of MC, or having better API for third-party sites and leagues, or having a dev team that actually plays their game at a competent enough level to be deserve being the ones to make all the decisions regarding gameplay decisions and mechanics.

[Johnny Z]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 August 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

yea, russ did agree that that was something that was needed to be done. No developer in their right mind would keep running an old engine if they can upgrade it. it would be like running the engine from MW2 and never changing it.

If I get to see my dropship take off like in MechWarrior 2 and be on the bridge and enter a star port and all the rest then it doesn't sound half bad.

Not to mention a full lance of NPC's backing me up as I travel the galaxy.




This video cuts out the intro and some voice acting.

20 years ago MechWarrior got that. it almost hurts. The actually mech piloting looks bad but the rest would be a step up way from whats MechWarrior online is offering at the moment. The NPC lance mates and enemies is well Lostech or what.

Edited by Johnny Z, 17 August 2016 - 01:40 PM.

[Imperius]

Tarogato, on 17 August 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'm more worried about game design than I am the game engine. Cryengine 3 isn't holding back the game from having better weapon balance, or better mech balancing, or having better designed maps, or fixing collision geometry, or having better gamemodes, or better web design/leaderboards/stats, or better tournament/event management, or having better CW metagame, or having a PSR system that actually works the way one should, or having more information on the frontend to inform noobs about how the game works, or having most cosmetic items costing not-unreasonable sums of MC, or having better API for third-party sites and leagues, or having a dev team that actually plays their game at a competent enough level to be deserve being the ones to make all the decisions regarding gameplay decisions and mechanics.

Actually it is holding a lot of the things you just mentioned back.... Are you trolling or legitimately serious?

[invernomuto]

Imperius, on 17 August 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Because that is what using a prebuilt engine is!

Back in the day development meant you actually had to create your own engine then make your game. True game development is still that norm. Example is Destiny uses an in house engine. Metal Gear used the in house created Fox engine. Battlefield uses the in house Frostbite engine.

Back in the day there weren't Game Engine so powerful (and affordable) like Unreal Engine 4, Unity or CryEngine. Right now you can do pretty anything with one of those (and at least UE is quite customizable - you can access to UE sources. I think it's the same for CE and Unity).
I think that defining "modding" creating a game from scratch with one of this engine is a bit an oversemplification.

You can do true game developing with those: Best selling games are made with UE (i.e. X-Com Enemy Unknow or X-Com 2). It's used also by big studios like Ubisoft.

https://en.wikipedia...al_Engine_games

Quote

Unity
CryEngine
Unreal Engine

Are the standard engines used for small development groups indie studios.

Game engines for popular games genres (like FPS) were licensed also before the coming of "affordable" (and "AAA") Game Engine but indie studios couldn't afford their license fees.

Edited by invernomuto, 17 August 2016 - 02:09 PM.

[YourSaviorLegion]

As others said the monetary cost and time cost is too great to be actually worth while, they would essentially have to rebuild the game from the ground up while trying to support the current version. There would way too much of a workload, things would of been a lot better if they didn't stray too far from the base CryEngine.

[Floodinator]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 17 August 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

the engine is the lowest Problem of MWO ...give MWO first a clear Line for Work and Targets ,Whats will MWO ????...to many constructions Zones ...FW,Balance, Timeline,KI and PvE

the Engine is somehow a Problem, after Switching from a GTX 770 to a GTX 1080, I got the same FPS. Even with a brandnew CPU, RAm etc.

[Imperius]

Floodinator, on 17 August 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

the Engine is somehow a Problem, after Switching from a GTX 770 to a GTX 1080, I got the same FPS. Even with a brandnew CPU, RAm etc.

Yup it's junk sadly and no amount of tune ups will change it.

I laugh at the people here saying its a waste of time because X and y need to be done before... Changing or updating the engine will force PGI to address most of those issues. Hell they might even get rid of weapon convergence (I hope not, but you never know) unreal is ridiculously powerful and has a vast library of content. Mesh based AI so all PGI would have to do is path AI etc.

Edited by Imperius, 17 August 2016 - 03:01 PM.

[Tarogato]

Imperius, on 17 August 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

Actually it is holding a lot of the things you just mentioned back.... Are you trolling or legitimately serious?

Legitimately 100% serious. The game engine is holding back absolutely none of the things I mentioned. Things that PGI has proved they can do on a whim... but just don't. For no discernible reason.

[Navid A1]

Tarogato, on 17 August 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

Legitimately 100% serious. The game engine is holding back absolutely none of the things I mentioned. Things that PGI has proved they can do on a whim... but just don't. For no discernible reason.

The engine is capable.
Yet because they decided to heavily modify it, It has became a franken-build of an engine even crytech can't help them at this point.
Take switchable ammo for LBX cannons for example.

[Chuck Jager]

I had to work with Adobe to build their tools into a university website for web and streaming video.

What they promised and how it played with our system was very different.

I could say they or us was out of place, but I found out that sale talk VS reality is par for the course and any switch of infrastructure will be painful.

Yes I personally had 1 bad experience, but it was the others with more time in field who said "never believe the specs" of the engines/mechanics of the tech specs wrapped in sales speak.

What the backend promises is not what they can deliver as easily - even if one video looks great

[The Basilisk]

stVillain, on 17 August 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Switching engines isn't a thing. I know in this day and age when you get remastered editions of console games it definitely looks like a thing. But, there are entire companies dedicating years of labor in silence just so a publisher can announce the remaster is out in 3 months like it ain't no thing. Often times, articles are run post mortem about how those remasters aren't so much a remaster as building a game from the ground up, whole hog. yes, the team does have the luxury of the original resources. but that's like having notes while you study.

I think a lot of people don't understand the complexity of the operation or the real cost.

a bad example:
Take an MP3 file and switch out the ending .mp3 for .avi. now see if an avi player will recognise the file. if not. open the file in notepad and tell me what you need to change about that code to get it to run as an avi.
That is what you're asking them to do. like it ain't no thing.

This all the way.
Switching the engine of a computer game isn't like going to a workshop ramp up your car and change the engine.

Its more like cutting your car to pieces, melt the metal of the chassis and construct a new car that looks like the old around the new engine.

Bottom line implementing a new engine is pretty much like doing a new game all over. Only thing you are saving to do is the artworks, parts of the animating process and level design.

[Johnny Z]

The Basilisk, on 18 August 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

This all the way.
Switching the engine of a computer game isn't like going to a workshop ramp up your car and change the engine.

Its more like cutting your car to pieces, melt the metal of the chassis and construct a new car that looks like the old around the new engine.

Bottom line implementing a new engine is pretty much like doing a new game all over. Only thing you are saving to do is the artworks, parts of the animating process and level design.

I have wondered about the details of this.

[xengk]

Deathlike, on 17 August 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

You'd have to buy a mechpack to find out!

That might legitimately be their solution.
Selling more mech pack to finance a new engine, like how they use mech pack to buy out controlling share from IGP.

[Johnny Z]

xengk, on 18 August 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

That might legitimately be their solution.
Selling more mech pack to finance a new engine, like how they use mech pack to buy out controlling share from IGP.

What if they are saving up to buy the license from Microsoft? Mind blown or what.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 August 2016 - 01:11 AM.

[Imperius]

The Basilisk, on 18 August 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

This all the way.
Switching the engine of a computer game isn't like going to a workshop ramp up your car and change the engine.

Its more like cutting your car to pieces, melt the metal of the chassis and construct a new car that looks like the old around the new engine.

Bottom line implementing a new engine is pretty much like doing a new game all over. Only thing you are saving to do is the artworks, parts of the animating process and level design.

Ok what has PGI done in the game that isn't added art assets?

Server side PVP (Was not a CryEngine feature was put in by a programmer who is no longer with PGI) (comes in Unreal Engine 4)
UI 2.0 not sure of the the language used or programming done for this (unreal 4 has UI tools built in)

I think that's about it

[Metus regem]

Johnny Z, on 17 August 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

20 years ago MechWarrior got that. it almost hurts. The actually mech piloting looks bad but the rest would be a step up way from whats MechWarrior online is offering at the moment. The NPC lance mates and enemies is well Lostech or what.

And still the best MechWarrior game to date...

Your actions actually felt like they had weight. I was never able to take a bunch of DCMS missions, after I found out I had to take part in the slaughter of the local population for them...

Still I did enjoy the ComStar missions, you were basically tasked with being a s**t disturber getting the houses to fight each other...