Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:
Energy Draw Currently Allows Getting Away With Larger Alphas
#21
Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:23 AM
#22
Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:24 AM
Yellonet, on 19 August 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:
There is a difference between a repeatable high alpha, and a high alpha that causes you to wait for 10 seconds before it can be repeated. One is viable, the other not so much.
Don't get me wrong, the penalty could stand to be higher, but so could the capacity.
Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 August 2016 - 08:29 AM.
#23
Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:25 AM
If they set the values a bit on the low side, the players can go in and have a blast learning the new mechanic and then the players state that the values need to be harsher. Then it is not all PGI.
#24
Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:37 AM
Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:
Don't get me wrong, the penalty could stand to be higher, but so could the capacity.
Chuck Jager, on 19 August 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:
If they set the values a bit on the low side, the players can go in and have a blast learning the new mechanic and then the players state that the values need to be harsher. Then it is not all PGI.
#25
Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:15 AM
Yellonet, on 19 August 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:
Easier said than done, especially against teams who know better and actually have the fortitude to use the terrible meme: keep calm and press W.
#28
Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:52 AM
Andi Nagasia, on 19 August 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:
your suggesting we nuke the system from orbit, wow Gas thats harsh,
I was half joking, but the path to balance is shorter if we don't introduce another dozen dials to turn.
Doubling the heat penalty doesn't help balance at all, just restricts viable builds even more, and makes Assaults more useless.
Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 August 2016 - 09:53 AM.
#31
Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:25 AM
SilentHawk, on 19 August 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:
Actual wording is Energy Draw level of -120 is a new suicide condition. And it is not the case.
10 cERPPC kill you instantly (haven't noticed if shots went off, or I exploded before that).
13.5*10 = 135 energy points spent. With +30 at the beginnig that gives -105 energy level.
9 cERPPCS kill you instantly (haven't noticed if shots went off, or I exploded before that).
13.5*9 = 121.5 energy points spent. With +30 at the beginnig that gives -91.5 energy level.
8 cERPPC just eat away around 45 hp and take around 10 te recover from overheating (map dependent I guess).
13.5*8 = 108 energy points spent. With +30 at the beginnig that gives -78 energy level.
Thus the 'new suicide' condition should be rephrased to 'simultaneous energy draw of 120 energy points'.
#32
Posted 19 August 2016 - 11:21 AM
#33
Posted 19 August 2016 - 11:45 AM
- max energy cap lowered to around 27.
- heat penalty multiplier should be around 2.5 give or take 0.5 to your tastes
- damage to energy draw convertion on SRMs should be lowered to 0.15 (to get anywhere near the GH system, SRMs are hot themselves)
- damage to energy draw convertion on PPCs (all sorts of them) should go from 1.0-0.9 (at present) to 1.25.
Estimation done comparing present GH table from Smurfy's with one calculated for ED.
#34
Posted 19 August 2016 - 12:02 PM
Let's face it. A game where you couldn't alpha at all... especially under such a convoluted system as this where stagger fire still presents itself as an alpha because how the mechanics of the system are set... would be a terrible terrible game.
You want to be able to alpha some of the time, but not all of the time, and this system does that.
I agree with Rampage that some weapons will need adjustments. I disagree about lasers, SRMs and PPCs. Lasers right now feel pretty well controlled without going into straight laser superiority, as has been the case for a long time. They're reigned in but not straight-up nerfed, which is just about right. If this new system handles any weapon WELL, it's lasers.
PPCs actually feel viable under the new system in a way that just wasn't possible under the old one. My Warhawk Prime has been completely useless since launch because of how poorly PPCs are handled. It was almost viable during my play session last night, finally letting it compete as a long range support mech as it was designed. PPCs have always been overly punished, getting ridiculous nerfs because of an irrational fear of a poptart resurgence. Given what a high-commitment weapon it is (high heat and needing lots of sinks to compensate) this is a weapon you WANT players to choose over LPLs if you want to push TTK up.
So far in my testing, the ED on SRMs feels pretty good. Lots of small launcher combos skirt under the penalty, so lighter mechs that relied on SRMs are safe. Penalties kick in at anything over 18 missiles, which is basically where ghost heat was set anyway.
Some weapons that need to be addressed are gauss rifles and LRMs. LRMs need to have pretty much NO heat penalty. In a few rounds of testing last night, playing anything with LRMs was pointless. This is already a weapon on the wrong side of viability, and to penalize large launchers even further is a very bad idea. Further reinforcing the idea that only large clusters of small LRM launchers fired sequentially is a mistake. Once you pair LRMs with anything else, forget it. Mixed builds with LRMs and long-range weapons just don't work. Due to their indirect-fire nature, we might consider exempting LRMs from ED outright. If not exempted, then drop the modifier to below 50%.
Right now, gauss basically gets around the ED heat penalty, getting away with a mere 17 heat spike if you fire dual goose at max ED. That's nothing for 30 damage. Either keep it the way it is and bring back charge, or double the heat penalty.
#35
Posted 19 August 2016 - 12:12 PM
#36
Posted 19 August 2016 - 12:27 PM
With the increased cooldowns maybe 15 recovery per second or maybe even 10 would be better.
Then you can pull the trigger for an alpha that uses 100 energy and it would take longer than the weapon cooldown to be able to fire again. Except you override, of course...
#37
Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:04 PM
Znail, on 19 August 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:
You could get some seriously large alphas in the old system without any penalty at all, when now you will face a penalty no matter what if you go above the limit.
So you could get a 5 LPL Alpha in the current system without penalty?
Ok then.
To be able to alpha 5 LPL will mean two pilots working together can effectively kill any mech in the battlefield. TTK has essentially been massively reduced because of it.
And don't trot out the "hitscan" rubbish of lasers. To a pilot that has not seen the enemy, you'll be dead before he even realises he has been shot even with assault levels of armour/structure with even a half decent shot and keeping 80% of the laser on target.
DPS means nothing if you kill the mech you are shooting at in 1 second as DPS is no longer relevant the higher the alpha.
Edited by R31Nismoid, 19 August 2016 - 01:10 PM.
#38
Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:08 PM
ScarecrowES, on 19 August 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:
What?
I was running, incidentally, a Quad ERPPC Warhawk last night, in T1 matches (Solo and Group), no problems racking up 600+ damage every single game.
And this is on Mining Collective and other tight maps, not a sniper fest like Alpine.
Far from useless if you know what you're doing.
To be able to fire MORE PPCs (aka, earlier post in this thread) before penalty's, is not a good thing.
#39
Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:35 PM
R31Nismoid, on 19 August 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:
This. This new system never made much sense to me, and it made even less sense now.
Good job. We've reduced the sustained damage of alpha mechs, who already had low sustained damage to begin with, and at the same time buffed the power to alpha.
What was this change supposed to fix? This is just a return to the poptart meta (easily the time of MWO I hated the most) minus the poptarting with with even higher pinpoint damage. Load up on PPCs and and go to town.
#40
Posted 19 August 2016 - 02:05 PM
I'm kinda glad I've been playing mostly PPC Poptarts for the last 6-8 weeks to try better my aim/try a different style etc.
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