91 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

looking at the LPL/LLAS stalkers and battlemasters, not to say LPL banshee's all over the place.... for clans it might be true tho that PPFLD and AC boats are dominant on the meta side currently.
for the IS nope.
not at all.
naa.
IS doesnt have the mechs for it apart from the mauler maybe. but then, you got XL....

I know Gas touches on this, but prior to the Kodiak, the assault class was dominated by IS assaults.

The Wubshee took a back seat to the Battlemaster due to survivability issues (for both ERLL and LPL boating) while the Mauler was the main assault with 5 AC5 and whale speeds. With the Kodiak somewhat nerfed, the AC5 Mauler and the Dakka Whale may be making a return since the Kodiak doesn't have the superior firepower anymore (or at least wont once things are adjusted).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 August 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[Alienized]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Warhammer is probably one of the best heavies in the game, and not the laser vomit one.

Assaults, yeah the Mauler is too slow to compete with the Kodiak (although you don't XL a Mauler, you just get 5 AC5s and DWF speeds), that I agree with. But the laser vomit options aren't exactly meta either. It boils down to the Kodiak obsoleting everything. The LPL boats you describe are great public queue stompers for sure, but they aren't THAT good.

they might not be that good but they are pretty much the only choice the IS has, especially hardpoint wise. king crab too heavy, atlas too much focused on short range and bad hardpoints and also just too heavy.

agreeing with the whammy but the laservomit still works very well on them. marauder is a solid tanky choice too, laservomiting or not.

having FW in mind as well it will be extremely tough to balance IS and clan side to the new system and take a while.... because lets face it, in solo PUG play every mech can stomp. even a victor.

[Revis Volek]

Yosharian, on 19 August 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Hmm, it's almost like having the exact same system for both energy and ballistic weapons is a stupid idea

You sir are much too intelligent it seems to be here. Intelligence is thrown out the window with yestedays leftovers around this place.


Who would have thought that after YEARS and YEARS of us telling them that BLANKET NERFS, FIXES, BUFFS are not accurate at all and are actually a terrible idea. I know its a pain to go over each mech with a fine tooth comb but im pretty sure that is their job here. To make this game no matter how much of a PAIN it is to them to actually get work finished.

[Gas Guzzler]

Revis Volek, on 19 August 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

You sir are much too intelligent it seems to be here. Intelligence is thrown out the window with yestedays leftovers around this place.


Who would have thought that after YEARS and YEARS of us telling them that BLANKET NERFS, FIXES, BUFFS are not accurate at all and are actually a terrible idea. I know its a pain to go over each mech with a fine tooth comb but im pretty sure that is their job here. To make this game no matter how much of a PAIN it is to them to actually get work finished.

Honestly, that's why I say that it is easier to take what we have now and continue to do iterative balance changes.

The problem I have seen, is that laser vomit was actually brought in line a while ago, but because it wasn't GIGANERFED, the masses haven't really caught on, as it still works well.

[Revis Volek]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I know Gas touches on this, but prior to the Kodiak, the assault class was dominated by IS assaults.

The Wubshee took a back seat to the Battlemaster due to survivability issues (for both ERLL and LPL boating) while the Mauler was the main assault with 5 AC5 and whale speeds. With the Kodiak somewhat nerfed, the AC5 Mauler and the Dakka Whale may be making a return since the Kodiak doesn't have the superior firepower anymore (or at least wont once things are adjusted).

I would love to see this actually come to fruition but i dont have high hopes...

The KDK is the only assault worth taking these days and for us Cbill players that pretty much means you cant run an assault and haven't really been able to for a while now.

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Honestly, that's why I say that it is easier to take what we have now and continue to do iterative balance changes.

The problem I have seen, is that laser vomit was actually brought in line a while ago, but because it wasn't GIGANERFED, the masses haven't really caught on, as it still works well.

I agree, i think balance was better before the rescale then it had ever been, the rescale ruined a lot of what they had done because of the big change that some mechs went through (mainly lights and mediums) but at the same time i was doing better in mixed laodouts and SRM builds then i had ever outside of the comp setting.

I think this is going to be a huge step backwards in my opinion, a step away from something that was actually working pretty well but PGI just gave up on it too quickly. Russ also said that he doesnt want his potato mechs to be one shot though and that had yet to be addressed but....


psssssttt, hey Russ, this didnt fix it either.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I know Gas touches on this, but prior to the Kodiak, the assault class was dominated by IS assaults.

The Wubshee took a back seat to the Battlemaster due to survivability issues (for both ERLL and LPL boating) while the Mauler was the main assault with 5 AC5 and whale speeds. With the Kodiak somewhat nerfed, the AC5 Mauler and the Dakka Whale may be making a return since the Kodiak doesn't have the superior firepower anymore (or at least wont once things are adjusted).

its pretty much a problem of the players that clan assaults been downed. yes, whale wasnt as popular for a while but it never lost its sheer damage potential.
ac5 maulers.... i never understood the necessarity for more than 4 ballistic slots. or more than 4 slots of one weapon system overall..... quad uac5 dakka was already a harsh thing and the impact of macro's on such loadouts is too high and NEED TO BE forbidden (macro's that is).

i had alot of fun in my warhawks and they are not bad. problem is that players arent adjusting. it always was the biggest problem to this game. most mechs are all about boating.... or PPFLD. if a mech cant do one those, its garbage.

i cant tell you how many close/above 1k damage games i had with a 2 er ppc/2 uac2/ 2 srm 6 warhawk i had.
gargles aint that bad if the team has an idea how to play it in a nice defensive situation, letting the enemy come to you.
executioner needs alot of damn structure hardpoints tho but is a fierce brawler.
but how many players/teams decide to go that way?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

i cant tell you how many close/above 1k damage games i had with a 2 er ppc/2 uac2/ 2 srm 6 warhawk i had.
gargles aint that bad if the team has an idea how to play it in a nice defensive situation, letting the enemy come to you.
executioner needs alot of damn structure hardpoints tho but is a fierce brawler.
but how many players/teams decide to go that way?

1k damage isn't that great though for an assault in PUGs these days, just saying.

The Whale was the closest thing to competitive before the Kodiak.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 August 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

its pretty much a problem of the players that clan assaults been downed. yes, whale wasnt as popular for a while but it never lost its sheer damage potential.
ac5 maulers.... i never understood the necessarity for more than 4 ballistic slots. or more than 4 slots of one weapon system overall..... quad uac5 dakka was already a harsh thing and the impact of macro's on such loadouts is too high and NEED TO BE forbidden (macro's that is).

i had alot of fun in my warhawks and they are not bad. problem is that players arent adjusting. it always was the biggest problem to this game. most mechs are all about boating.... or PPFLD. if a mech cant do one those, its garbage.

i cant tell you how many close/above 1k damage games i had with a 2 er ppc/2 uac2/ 2 srm 6 warhawk i had.
gargles aint that bad if the team has an idea how to play it in a nice defensive situation, letting the enemy come to you.
executioner needs alot of damn structure hardpoints tho but is a fierce brawler.
but how many players/teams decide to go that way?

Macros have no effect on UAC loadouts, but the 5 AC5 MX90 was better, higher velocity for better long range accuracy, no jams, it was pretty solid. It got quirk nerfed pretty hard though.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

1k damage isn't that great though for an assault in PUGs these days, just saying.

The Whale was the closest thing to competitive before the Kodiak.

it is. just not for a kodiak. people are too spoiled with high damage numbers.....
competitive should never be the standard to use for such things.
they are and will always be the minority in games. that doesnt make them less important but you just cant balance or design a game completely around them.

i've seen myself how those 1500 dmg numbers happen and i wouldnt be proud of how it happens, just not what i expect of how a assault should play. it might be impressive to see but its ineffective nonetheless to spread the damage so massively at 500m while the team takes it for the mech that has the armor for it.
not my way of thinking and playing.

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

Macros have no effect on UAC loadouts, but the 5 AC5 MX90 was better, higher velocity for better long range accuracy, no jams, it was pretty solid. It got quirk nerfed pretty hard though.

macro's got a effect especially on UAC's since you can (or could? dont know if that got changed.) set them exactly at that point where you will never jam em.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

it is. just not for a kodiak. people are too spoiled with high damage numbers.....
competitive should never be the standard to use for such things.
they are and will always be the minority in games. that doesnt make them less important but you just cant balance or design a game completely around them.

i've seen myself how those 1500 dmg numbers happen and i wouldnt be proud of how it happens, just not what i expect of how a assault should play. it might be impressive to see but its ineffective nonetheless to spread the damage so massively at 500m while the team takes it for the mech that has the armor for it.
not my way of thinking and playing.


macro's got a effect especially on UAC's since you can (or could? dont know if that got changed.) set them exactly at that point where you will never jam em.

The only way to not jam is if you don't double tap. Holding the button down gives you standard AC5 cooldown, no double tap no jams, if click between cooldowns, you get the extra shot, but might jam. I think what you are referring to was fixed a LONG time ago.

[FannyBoss]

Doesn't every shot have the same chance of jamming in with UACS? That's why you sometimes get a first shot jamming.

[Gas Guzzler]

FannyBoss, on 19 August 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Doesn't every shot have the same chance of jamming in with UACS? That's why you sometimes get a first shot jamming.

I THOUGHT you could only jam after the first shot if you tried to double tap. Should be immune from jams if you hold the button down and just maintain AC5 DPS.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

it is. just not for a kodiak. people are too spoiled with high damage numbers.....

1k damage used to be normal for Maulers pre-nerf/Kodiak.

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

competitive should never be the standard to use for such things.

Neither should PUGs because they are by their very nature more uncoordinated, which seems silly given this is a team game. That said, Warhawks still aren't good even by PUG standards, anecdotes aside.

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

macro's got a effect especially on UAC's since you can (or could? dont know if that got changed.) set them exactly at that point where you will never jam em.

You can just hold the button down and you will never jam since it doesn't automatically double tap anymore and hasn't for a while. If you are doing it to cause massive screen shake then you are wasting your time anyway because it isn't as effective as people think. 3 AC5/2 UAC5 > 4 UAC5.

[Davers]

Ultimax, on 19 August 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Gas, just let it happen.

There will be blood on the forums, just get your straw ready so we can drink their milkshakes.

Bloodshakes?

[Johnny Z]

El Bandito, on 19 August 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Fortunately, that part is very simple to fix. PGI needs to increase the heat penalty ratio per damage exceeding 30.

Yep easy as pie.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

1k damage used to be normal for Maulers pre-nerf/Kodiak.


Neither should PUGs because they are by their very nature more uncoordinated, which seems silly given this is a team game. That said, Warhawks still aren't good even by PUG standards, anecdotes aside.


You can just hold the button down and you will never jam since it doesn't automatically double tap anymore and hasn't for a while. If you are doing it to cause massive screen shake then you are wasting your time anyway because it isn't as effective as people think. 3 AC5/2 UAC5 > 4 UAC5.

ah yeah i knew that macro's could be set to do the double-tap while you only had to stay on the button so that propably got fixed... but im not the guy that uses cheats hacks or macro's so i dont even interest myself for that, just heard it once and it instantly pissed me off.

i played the uac5 mauler for a long time and indeed, it was easy to crack up damage with it just like the UAC5 king crab but only as long as people knew how weak they are on the movement side.
something the KDK had and still has compared to the mauler.

it reminds me of the time where 3ac5 banshee's been useful. had plenty of 1k battles with those too.
the problem is, damage itself isnt much of a stat that shows how good you played. in fact, the less damage you need to kill a mech the better it is...

i once took out a DWF and KGC solo with just 220 damage done and got told i done nothing to win. surprising them with the victor from behind and they didnt react so that been 200 tons less with no effort. that is usually worth more than doing 700 damage but spreading too much.

now back to the topic ....

how can you balance ballistic boats with high RoF with power draw? i mean, they dont have alpha but RoF and still are a major problem

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

how can you balance ballistic boats with high RoF with power draw? i mean, they dont have alpha but RoF and still are a major problem

You could decrease the energy recharged per second, but honestly, then this system then just becomes a lesser version of heat.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 August 2016 - 10:40 AM.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

You could decrease the energy recharged per second, but honestly, then this system then just becomes a lesser version of heat.

which is the main problem i have with power draw. it worries me quite alot tbh. same goes for the SRM nukage of some mechs like stalkers and mad dogs. i cant see a good solution with power draw for such stuff....

[LordKnightFandragon]

El Bandito, on 19 August 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Fortunately, that part is very simple to fix. PGI needs to increase the heat penalty ratio per damage exceeding 30.

And vastly reduce the energy regen rate from 20 to like 2, so that it actually feels like its a system in place. Right now at 20, you can safely ignore it, since by the time your weapon gets done making the fire animation, the energy bar is full again....

30 points with 2 point regen, that would be like 15 seconds to fully recharge, making it a system that we actually have to play with. This game should almost just remove heat and let us just fire w/e we want as much as we want, since the systems in place seem to be easily worked around, or just dont have as big of an effect as they should.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 August 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

And vastly reduce the energy regen rate from 20 to like 2, so that it actually feels like its a system in place.

Where is the Steve Carell "no" gif when you need it. That is actually worse than forced chainfire.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 August 2016 - 10:51 AM.