100 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 August 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

because you don't separate the wheat and the chaff by what you can accomplish against potatoes?

I have little use or patience for the Epeen crowd, but for distilling what stacks up against what, that's where one looks. Yes, many of the players are really just glorified twitchers, but you also have those who do set the trends and meta there, and they do so by knowing not just the Black and White of the game, but the shades of grey in between.

does that tier 1 thingy say i play against nothing but tier 5's there bishop? it sure looks like it by your judgement or you are literally calling everyone here a potato.

Oderint dum Metuant, on 25 August 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

The Victor is terrible, it is outclassed by other Assaults, it is outclassed by a number of heavies just under its tonnage...there is pretty much no sane/logical reason to take one.

there is if you actually know more than just hide and poke gameplay or only boating mentality. am i insane? yes. i am.
and i am fine playing this game with insanity since too many people cant play well against it.

Bishop Steiner, on 25 August 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

I recently ran the Victor as part of the "What Mech Challenge". As long as I played against potatoes, it did OK. One whiff of FF from competent players? And it was missing an ST.

This makes me sad, as before the JJs nerfs the VTR WAS my chassis of choice with nearly 1000 matches in it.

It's funyn he points to the JJs as something special...despite the fact the JJs pretty well suck on the VTR. You aren't surprising anyone above tier 4 or so with having JJs on an Assault Mech. Especially as painfully slow as those work.



I believe the Potato Farmers Guild of Germany is putting such a resolution before the EU as we speak.

to me it actually looks like you are mainly playing with potatos or just dont know what to do with a victor if not simply running within the large deathball. you totally deserve to get that ST shot out mate. its the last thing i want to be in with my victor. within the own team.

im actually surprised you just do the deathball while i thought you learned more about playing mechs than just sitting inside the team. but surprising enemy mechs works very well with a victor, dear bishop. but you wont do that sitting around amongst the other deathballers.

propably the reason why you are bad with them. if its not meta you cant seem to be good with it eh? thats pretty much what you just wrote down.

and thanks to the quote, that last thing you wrote..... damn dude, you really went low here.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 August 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

been toying with a 7xSRM4 version, to skip the Artemis and get the higher RoF. But haven't decided on Mlasers in the arms to deal with UAVs, or Flamers to stunlock opponents a la the Spirit Bear. From your perspective, what would you recommend?

Flamers, as much as being able to shoot down UAVs is nice, from my perspective you won't often be in a position to shoot them down, plus flamers are really nice for brawlers. Really depends though, since flamers require some face time, which can be dangerous for assault brawlers, so I really don't have that big of a preference on either since we are talking PUG play.

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

does that tier 1 thingy say i play against nothing but tier 5's there bishop? it sure looks like it by your judgement or you are literally calling everyone here a potato.

Being in tier 1 does not guarantee you won't ever play potatoes, in fact I'm pretty sure there are even potatoes IN tier 1.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 August 2016 - 09:46 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

does that tier 1 thingy say i play against nothing but tier 5's there bishop? it sure looks like it by your judgement or you are literally calling everyone here a potato.




there is if you actually know more than just hide and poke gameplay or only boating mentality. am i insane? yes. i am.
and i am fine playing this game with insanity since too many people cant play well against it.




to me it actually looks like you are mainly playing with potatos or just dont know what to do with a victor if not simply running within the large deathball. you totally deserve to get that ST shot out mate. its the last thing i want to be in with my victor. within the own team.

im actually surprised you just do the deathball while i thought you learned more about playing mechs than just sitting inside the team. but surprising enemy mechs works very well with a victor, dear bishop. but you wont do that sitting around amongst the other deathballers.

propably the reason why you are bad with them. if its not meta you cant seem to be good with it eh? thats pretty much what you just wrote down.

and thanks to the quote, that last thing you wrote..... damn dude, you really went low here.

considering the number of verified potatoes I have faced who are tier 1? XP bar is not impressive.

as for the last quote, I would apologize, but in all honesty it seems like you mostly want to argue. Hey, I like running bad mechs to. I just don't try to bulldoze anyone who rationally points out the robot is bad.

I have nothing against you, personally, TBH. But the VTR is NOT even a middle of the pack robot if playing against remotely decent competition. And mobile brawling IS my specialty. Can I break 1000 in it? Yes. But not against equal or better players.

I'm a Medium Mech specialist, who has harvested pretty much every big name on these forums at one time or another with either my HBK or CN9. I never "stick with the pack" as a mobile mech is an ideal flanker.

That said, the Victor is severely outclassed in that role by several Medium Mechs, let alone Assaults or Heavies. But nice try to cover up the butthurt with a realyl laughable and inaccurate generalization.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 25 August 2016 - 09:55 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

Try a 6 ASRM6 with a 400 XL >_>

Yeah now that I have seen that its hitboxes aren't XL unfriendly I might have to try that.

[Alienized]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 August 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

considering the number of verified potatoes I have faced who are tier 1? XP bar is not impressive.

as for the last quote, I would apologize, but in all honesty it seems like you mostly want to argue. Hey, I like running bad mechs to. I just don't try to bulldoze anyone who rationally points out the robot is bad.

I have nothing against you, personally, TBH. But the VTR is NOT even a middle of the pack robot if playing against remotely decent competition. And mobile brawling IS my specialty. Can I break 1000 in it? Yes. But not against equal or better players.

I'm a Medium Mech specialist, who has harvested pretty much every big name on these forums at one time or another with either my HBK or CN9. I never "stick with the pack" as a mobile mech is an ideal flanker.

That said, the Victor is severely outclassed in that role by several Medium Mechs, let alone Assaults or Heavies. But nice try to cover up the butthurt with a realyl laughable and inaccurate generalization.

you dont need to apologize but i agree with you, there are plenty of scrubs in tier 1, you might be in that pool too soon.
what u said about ur mediums... can be said about my victor. huh.... what surprise.
pointless argument.

just that the victor isnt outclassed by any medium. its slower but you just gotta adapt and flank likewise. pretty much the same what you do with the meds, just different spot and timing. but then the victor will just eat the med if its head on.
i cant see another assault beeing that mobile including jumpjets with a ac20. the only heavy that comes to my mind currently is a marauder that can jump with a ac20.

im actually happy that so many people are butthurt on how someone can defend a outlier mech as good stuff. so why should I be butthurt? i like it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

i cant see another assault beeing that mobile including jumpjets with a ac20.

What does the AC20 have to do with anything? The brawling meta is splat for a reason, because the damage potential of splat outweighs the PPFLD nature of the AC20.

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

im actually happy that so many people are butthurt on how someone can defend a outlier mech as good stuff. so why should I be butthurt? i like it.

Not really butthurt, you actually have to win your arguments to make someone butthurt.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

What does the AC20 have to do with anything? The brawling meta is splat for a reason, because the damage potential of splat outweighs the PPFLD nature of the AC20.


Not really butthurt, you actually have to win your arguments to make someone butthurt.

all you care is meta aint it? meta here, meta there. cant u do something else than that? are you just a lemming that follows? no own mind? sorry, i gotta give it a downvote. you are just another meta tryhard that cant think about an own idendity.

im not talkin to you about beein butthurt. lol. you dont even get THAT. my arguments typically win on the field when someone dies there by the surprising appearance of a victor out of nowhere. not even mastering all the mechs have teached you to play out of something everyone else does because it seems like you only learned to follow the trend.

*ehrmagerd, i am not playing the meta ahnymoar. hao cud diz happen!*

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

all you care is meta aint it? meta here, meta there. cant u do something else than that? are you just a lemming that follows? no own mind?

Spewing quite a bit of rhetoric there?

The meta comes from somewhere, and it is the comp players that experiment with a variety of builds and figuring out which ones work and understanding why they work (though it isn't just the comp players, but it generally starts to spread once the comp players figure things out).

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

not even mastering all the mechs have teached you to play out of something everyone else does because it seems like you only learned to follow the trend.

By everyone else, I'm pretty sure you mean just you, because everyone else knows the Victor is weak, but hey, if you can't win the argument, attack the person making the argument.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 August 2016 - 10:37 AM.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Spewing quite a bit of rhetoric there?

The meta comes from somewhere, and it is the comp players that experiment with a variety of builds and figuring out which ones work and understanding why they work (though it isn't just the comp players, but it generally starts to spread once the comp players figure things out).

and that means you cant play anything else just as successfull as the meta?
the meta is nothing but a easy to play oritentation. im fine with that. im not fine with people just ignoring everything else around it and calling them bad.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

By everyone else, I'm pretty sure you mean just you, because everyone else knows the Victor is weak, but hey, if you can't win the argument, attack the person making the argument.

i dont mean myself with it. i enjoy playing the hardest mechs well. some kind of satisfaction you know? the victor is not weak. i wont get back from this any time. its a challenge to play but not weak.

[HammerMaster]

http://mwomercs.com/...20#entry5361869

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

and that means you cant play anything else just as successfull as the meta?

Yes, that's kind of the point of meta, it is the most successful, aka the best option. If something were just as successful as the meta, it would be apart of the meta, that's how it works.

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

i dont mean myself with it. i enjoy playing the hardest mechs well. some kind of satisfaction you know? the victor is not weak. i wont get back from this any time. its a challenge to play but not weak.

So you enjoy playing hard mech, you enjoy the Victor, you think it's a challenge to play. Sounds pretty much like it's weak.

There is a difference between mechs with a high skill cap, and just plain weak mechs. The Dakka Mauler and old school Whale were mechs with high skill caps but were strong (and still are to a degree), the Victor is a mech with a high skill cap but is weak because it offers nothing that another mech can't do better.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 August 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Yes, that's kind of the point of meta, it is the most successful, aka the best option. If something were just as successful as the meta, it would be apart of the meta, that's how it works.


So you enjoy playing hard mech, you enjoy the Victor, you think it's a challenge to play. Sounds pretty much like it's weak.

There is a difference between mechs with a high skill cap, and just plain weak mechs. The Dakka Mauler and old school Whale were mechs with high skill caps but were strong (and still are to a degree), the Victor is a mech with a high skill cap but is weak because it offers nothing that another mech can't do better.

dakka mauler a high skill caps... LOL wtf? old school whale? that is no skill cap at all lmao.
i pointed out what the victor can do that none other can do.
its up to the player if he wants to use it or not. you want to do that? you are weak.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

dakka mauler a high skill caps... LOL wtf? old school whale? that is no skill cap at all lmao.

Yes, because anyone could just pilot it and be able to do well against other good players

Even among good teams (like my own), barely anyone wanted to play the Whale or Mauler because they were hard to play compared to other mechs despite it being THE best mech and key to winning a match prior to the rebalance. This also being when many players clamored that the Whale was too weak.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

and that means you cant play anything else just as successfull as the meta?

that's kind of the point of a Meta. Maximum Results, for Minimum Effort. A good player can get good results from non optimal builds, especially against weaker opposition. But they will invariably do BETTER with an optimized Meta build.

IF Heim or Proton could regularly break 1000 in your Victor, they would likely be doing 1500 in a KDK3, AS7-S, Spirit Bear, etc. Yes, one CAN do well in a bad mech. But against equal or better competition, one rarely will. And in a competitive arena? Being 5% less efficient even can cost your team the match.

That said, most of the top players can, have, and still do, run less optimal mechs while pùgging, etc. But it's pretty silly to claim one will consistently do as well in a Potato Mech/Build as in a Munchkin mech.

And that's coming from a guy who doesn't much give a crap about Meta.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Yes, because anyone could just pilot it and be able to do well against other good players

Even among good teams (like my own), barely anyone wanted to play the Whale or Mauler because they were hard to play compared to other mechs despite it being THE best mech and key to winning a match prior to the rebalance. This also being when many players clamored that the Whale was too weak.

you mean every **** can play it and do well? yep.. totally high skill cap.

Bishop Steiner, on 25 August 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

that's kind of the point of a Meta. Maximum Results, for Minimum Effort. A good player can get good results from non optimal builds, especially against weaker opposition. But they will invariably do BETTER with an optimized Meta build.

IF Heim or Proton could regularly break 1000 in your Victor, they would likely be doing 1500 in a KDK3, AS7-S, Spirit Bear, etc. Yes, one CAN do well in a bad mech. But against equal or better competition, one rarely will. And in a competitive arena? Being 5% less efficient even can cost your team the match.

That said, most of the top players can, have, and still do, run less optimal mechs while pùgging, etc. But it's pretty silly to claim one will consistently do as well in a Potato Mech/Build as in a Munchkin mech.

And that's coming from a guy who doesn't much give a crap about Meta.

so the point of meta is not knowing stuff but wanting the best of everything? hooraaah for that. worth going for.
kinda sums up the modern world isnt it?
not doing anything but wanting everything?

so for games it means....
putting no effort to learn the game but still be able to beat everyone?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

you mean every **** can play it and do well? yep.. totally high skill cap.

Doing well and doing great are two different things.

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

so the point of meta is not knowing stuff but wanting the best of everything? hooraaah for that. worth going for.
kinda sums up the modern world isnt it?
not doing anything but wanting everything?

so for games it means....
putting no effort to learn the game but still be able to beat everyone?

So how does one exactly discover the meta if they don't learn the game? I'm curious about this conundrum you have posited. After all, the meta doesn't just "occur", someone has to pickup on a new build that is effective.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 August 2016 - 11:28 AM.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Doing well and doing great are two different things.


So how does one exactly discover the meta if they don't learn the game? I'm curious about this conundrum you have posited. After all, the meta doesn't just "occur", someone has to pickup on a new build that is effective.

i can do great if the team supports me instead of limping in the background. if there is actually a team that works i play great with it. supporting brawlers is not something the community is known for. requires usage of brain instead of deathballing.

discovering meta is quite easy. look on your screen.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alienized, on 25 August 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

discovering meta is quite easy. look on your screen.

It has to start somewhere, looking at the screen is following, so how does one discover a new meta without knowing anything about it?

[Zolaz]

The Cyclops is awesome. You should buy it and another mech pack.

[Alienized]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

It has to start somewhere, looking at the screen is following, so how does one discover a new meta without knowing anything about it?

countering the meta.