66 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

SADER!!! Sup little homie!?

Never said it was okay, I said I was glad. I don't understand why you quoted my post for that comment...

So you're glad that it is not ok?
makes sense.
tell me some more things that are not OK with you... i'll try to make you happy.

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

They are useless if you boat, just fine if you use them with other weapons. Learn to get into the fight and you won't think they are so awful. If they are buffed people will be dying to indirect fire constantly... boring.

Good luck with your crusade man, im sure Russ really cares

LRMs are not boring... Going against LRMs require some thinking and less twitch CoD action FPS.
besides.. we have LRM5 spam right now... yet I see 1 in every 50 matches.

Russ will not listen.. .that is a fact yes. But at least we could try.

Edited by Navid A1, 25 August 2016 - 04:16 PM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Navid A1, on 25 August 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

So you're glad that it is not ok?
makes sense.
tell me some more things that are not OK with you... i'll try to make you happy.

Uhhhh... did I offended you or something? You seem pretty angry. I never asked for you to make me happy (that's strange just to type, I have no idea how you got so confused) but keeping LRMs as is what I'm asking for. As far as I know you're not one of the developers so I'm guessing you're powerless to help. Relax man.

[Chuanhao]

I would like to thank Andi for always putting forth new ideas objectively

this compilation was also very well done

cheers and keep the ideas coming. Will vote.

[JC Daxion]

I don't think bringing larger launchers down to LRM5's is the answer. We don't need more pin-point weapons, or CT honing weapons.


I'd much rather see splash damage verse armor come back.. the larger the launcher, the more damage you would do verse all the armor, and not just one location. Make getting hit by a LRM15 or 20, have a chance of ripping open a hole in your side torso, or loose all the armor of your weapon arm for example.

and i say verse armor only, as i think that could make the weapon a bit different than others..


I'm also all for no indirect fire unless, UAV, TAG, Narc, I also would like LOS+lock mean a lower trajectory.

[Tyler Valentine]

Navid A1, on 25 August 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

LRMs are not boring...

Never said they were, I was simply asserting that everyone dying from indirect fire would make the game boring. I think it goes without saying that buffing LRMs would be a major step in that direction but you seemed to have so much trouble reading my other posts it seems like a good idea to spell it out.

Thanks for your input!

[Twinkleblade]

I once suggested a big missile rework last year however it got quickly forgotten. However my ideas still stand and could work with our current game. http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry4741978

Here is the general idea

Twinkleblade, on 04 October 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Right now PGI tries to balance mech quirks and will remove all/most weapon quirks. After that, if I understood correctly, a weapon balance pass will come. However besides the Clan/IS disparity, I think that missiles need a serious rework.

In their current state they are too binary. In higher Tiers enemies usually know how to work around them and its very hard to use them or in lower Tiers enemies get caught and just die.

With my following suggestions I hope to give them more depth and closer to Lore

LRM (can have TAG, NARC or Artemis upgrade)

• increased missile speed
  
• blind fired
  
• fly towards crosshair
  
• autolock on target within 180m range inside the front area of the missile
  
• wider spread
  
• randomly targets mech parts when locked on (see streaks)
  
• fly towards targets last known location when fired and lost lock
  
• fly towards a targets centre mass when locked on
  
• no correction of flight path

SRM (can have Dead Fire, NARC or Artemis upgrade)

• decreased missile speed
  
• fly stright forward
  
• autolock within 30m inside front area of the missile
  
• wider spread
  
• randomly targets mech parts when locked on

Various missile systems dont stack!




​TAG

• requires TAG missiles
  
• correct flight path
  
• fly into centre mass as long as tag is on them
  
• 0,5(?) sec grace time to reaquire lock when lock is lost
  
• fly towards targets last known location if lock is lost
  
• no autolock

Artemis

• LRM increased missile speed
  
• requires artemis system/missile
  
• with LOS and lock on, LRM correct flight path towards locked target // SRM follow the crosshair
  
• else behave like normal missiles

NARC

• requires NARC missiles
  
• slower missiles speed
  
• LRM attracted within 360m // SRM attracted within 60m of narced mech
  
• missiles dont auto correct flight path
  
• else behave like normal missiles

Dead Fire

current SRM

Streaks

• turn to basic SRM behaviour when under effect of ECM

With these changes LRM wont be hard countered by ECM except Artemis missiles which then return to normal behaviour, because of the required lock on.





TAG and NARC are best used with the help of a scout mech, with TAG being better at longer ranges and NARC for shorter ranges because of the different missile speeds. Also NARC having an effect on both LRM and SRM.

I dont expect that my ideas will be implemented 1 to 1 but more like an inspiration to possible missile changes.

[LordNothing]

on the pts i kind of posted an idea to give missiles its own version of power draw. the idea was you have a guidence computer that can track a certain number of objects simultaneously, say 30 lerms or 14 streaks/srms (lrms are worth one point, srms worth 2-2.15 points, for a maximum of 30). if you overload your guidence computer (have more than 30 points worth of missiles in the air at once), your spread starts to increase, maybe about 5-10% more spread for each additional point over 30. perhaps lock times start going up. you might also have a small heat penalty as your guidence computer gets warm, but not as much as gh/pd.

then you can completely refactor the missiles and get them out of the pit of utter nerfdom. tighten up the spreads on the big launchers. running a single lrm20 becomes viable, and really helps players who are using missiles in a mixed build, while boating lrm20s will make the missiles wildly innacurate. also since travel time makes a missile stay in the air longer (taking up guidence resources), it really encourages the missile boats to get in closer to maximize damage.

srm brawls suddenly become much more close quarters to minimize travel time. you are kind of limited to 14 missiles, so you have to split your salvos if you are running 4 asrms to keep your accuracy up. streakboats wont be able to loose 36 missiles in a salvo without a lot of them missing.

this idea was accompanied by a recoil system for ballistics, and energy would keep power draw for itself. but i want go into that here.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 August 2016 - 05:43 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Just have them target bones like Streaks. Why is this so hard and why do we keep forgetting that? Streaks are guided. LRMs are guided. Streaks target bones. LRMs are long range guided SRMs? Bones bones and more bones. And, just for added impact:

[Dingo Battler]

make direct fire like SRMs, in a straight line. Remove any spread - distance and lead time will take care of that.

Indirect fire should be like the current noob tubes, except halve the speed, and double the spread.

this'll bring LRMs into line as a weapon which takes skill to use.

[FuhNuGi]

Aside from any arguments...

I carry the tonnage of the base system, the ammo it eats... and if I boat, I pay in a lack of secondary defense systems.
I depend on locks for accurate fire (not including snapshots). My weapon speed is so slow you can watch it come to you and step out of the way, as well as easily tell where I am firing from...

My fire is easily defended against, AMS, cover, "incoming missile" warning and so on...

So to use LRMs comes with a cost in and of itself...
but I balance the costs versus the benefits... the "over the horizon" mode and the ability to hit my target over the top of an intervening teammate with little risk of collateral damage (although I am a fan of "splash") are fun mechanics...

LRMs are canon. Eat it. Maybe lacking in honor, but clanners used them too.


The "spread" seems to make the systems favor smaller LRM packs... kinda messed up, when you consider the tonnage wasted on... I mean... required by the larger systems. You would think a weapons designer would have this aspect figured out.

Does an AC-20 get a spread? Lose a percentage of damage or spread it's damage over an area compared to an AC-10? Does it do less ratioed damage or hit less than an AC-10?

Has there been any statistical analysis of the spread of LBX weaponry?



So, I do feel there is a bit too big of a shadow-nerf on LRM systems. Please balance spread to normalize this within the weapon system.



Nice job to all the hours spent by several people gathering the data to display the spread and so on.

[Tyler Valentine]

LordNothing, on 25 August 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

on the pts i kind of posted an idea to give missiles its own version of power draw. the idea was you have a guidence computer that can track a certain number of objects simultaneously, say 30 lerms or 14 streaks/srms (lrms are worth one point, srms worth 2-2.15 points, for a maximum of 30). if you overload your guidence computer (have more than 30 points worth of missiles in the air at once), your spread starts to increase, maybe about 5-10% more spread for each additional point over 30. perhaps lock times start going up. you might also have a small heat penalty as your guidence computer gets warm, but not as much as gh/pd.

then you can completely refactor the missiles and get them out of the pit of utter nerfdom. tighten up the spreads on the big launchers. running a single lrm20 becomes viable, and really helps players who are using missiles in a mixed build, while boating lrm20s will make the missiles wildly innacurate. also since travel time makes a missile stay in the air longer (taking up guidence resources), it really encourages the missile boats to get in closer to maximize damage.

srm brawls suddenly become much more close quarters to minimize travel time. you are kind of limited to 14 missiles, so you have to split your salvos if you are running 4 asrms to keep your accuracy up. streakboats wont be able to loose 36 missiles in a salvo without a lot of them missing.

this idea was accompanied by a recoil system for ballistics, and energy would keep power draw for itself. but i want go into that here.

Love it

[ManDaisy]

LordNothing, on 25 August 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

on the pts i kind of posted an idea to give missiles its own version of power draw. the idea was you have a guidence computer that can track a certain number of objects simultaneously, say 30 lerms or 14 streaks/srms (lrms are worth one point, srms worth 2-2.15 points, for a maximum of 30). if you overload your guidence computer (have more than 30 points worth of missiles in the air at once), your spread starts to increase, maybe about 5-10% more spread for each additional point over 30. perhaps lock times start going up. you might also have a small heat penalty as your guidence computer gets warm, but not as much as gh/pd.

then you can completely refactor the missiles and get them out of the pit of utter nerfdom. tighten up the spreads on the big launchers. running a single lrm20 becomes viable, and really helps players who are using missiles in a mixed build, while boating lrm20s will make the missiles wildly innacurate. also since travel time makes a missile stay in the air longer (taking up guidence resources), it really encourages the missile boats to get in closer to maximize damage.

srm brawls suddenly become much more close quarters to minimize travel time. you are kind of limited to 14 missiles, so you have to split your salvos if you are running 4 asrms to keep your accuracy up. streakboats wont be able to loose 36 missiles in a salvo without a lot of them missing.

this idea was accompanied by a recoil system for ballistics, and energy would keep power draw for itself. but i want go into that here.

I really like the way you think. Reminds me of myself when I still cared.

[Sader325]

Trauglodyte, on 25 August 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Just have them target bones like Streaks. Why is this so hard and why do we keep forgetting that? Streaks are guided. LRMs are guided. Streaks target bones. LRMs are long range guided SRMs? Bones bones and more bones. And, just for added impact:

Because streaks are **** weapons, and making LRMs like streaks makes them **** weapons.

[Ted Wayz]

Other weapon systems have drop off over range.

Give LRMs increased spread over range. Start at 3m at minimum range and increase to 6m at max range.

[LordNothing]

ManDaisy, on 25 August 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

I really like the way you think. Reminds me of myself when I still cared.

dont confuse my ruminating for caring. thats not a thing i do anymore.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 August 2016 - 09:24 PM.

[Sader325]

Ted Wayz, on 25 August 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

Other weapon systems have drop off over range.

Give LRMs increased spread over range. Start at 3m at minimum range and increase to 6m at max range.

Terrible idea.

[El Bandito]

Ted Wayz, on 25 August 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

Other weapon systems have drop off over range.

Give LRMs increased spread over range. Start at 3m at minimum range and increase to 6m at max range.

Not a bad idea, but I propose 1.5 meter at minimum range and 4 meters at max range. Otherwise, it will be even more of a garbage.

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 26 August 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

Not a bad idea, but I propose 1.5 meter at minimum range and 4 meters at max range. Otherwise, it will be even more of a garbage.

Id Support this, but we would half to be carefull on how it works,
LRMs are currently not used for long range(with 1.5-4 @500m = 2.75m Spread) Math is Sound,

Please remember everyone this Topic and Vote is about(Balancing LRMs) and not (LRM Balance)
i would like to see all LRMs balanced to each other, at that Point it will be easier to balance them vs other Weapons,

[Ted Wayz]

Sader325, on 26 August 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

Terrible idea.

Because it is logical? Or do you think missiles in dah real world get more accurate over range?

[Ted Wayz]

Another idea.

NARC and TAG decrease spread.