83 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Monkey Lover, on 25 August 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Learn to aim?

Maybe you shouldn't talk so tough bud, I would put money on Quicksilver over you any day of the week.

It has nothing to do with your silly cheapshots, and everything to do with making the simple assessment of which build will let you do more damage in the same or shorter time frames - because I promise you they still exist.

Some weapons are simply being penalized because this game's contingent of noisy bads never stop complaining about them.

[Tiantara]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 August 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

Nope, they most certainly are not.

- Did you tested them?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Monkey Lover, on 25 August 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

What weapons are you talking about ?

Dakka, what else?

Monkey Lover, on 25 August 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

No matter what I saw gauss ppc being used yesterday just fine without needed to.be fired at the same time.

Them being used doesn't mean they are good.

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 25 August 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

What weapons are you talking about ? I'm guessing lpl? Maybe you want pin point ? Maybe you want to jump snipe. May e you like the sound of the weapon. No matter what I saw gauss ppc being used yesterday just fine without needed to.be fired at the same time.

How the **** do you classify "fine"? Watching someone use it doesn't make it fine. It has to actually compete with other good loadouts against equally skilled pilots.

I took a Highlander and completely stomped the other team almost single handedly on the PTS, 4 kills 3 KMDD, top damage, and under no circumstances would I consider that Highlander "fine" based on that performance sample.

Tiantara, on 25 August 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

- Did you tested them?

Did you test them in a 12v12 while the other team was using known top builds? If not, then you haven't ACTUALLY tested them either.

[davoodoo]

Monkey Lover, on 25 August 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

What weapons are you talking about ? I'm guessing lpl? Maybe you want pin point ? Maybe you want to jump snipe. May e you like the sound of the weapon. No matter what I saw gauss ppc being used yesterday just fine without needed to.be fired at the same time.

oh idk what could fit

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=349&l=stock
this maybe

20 by 20 in doubletap practically heat neutral... youll run out of ammo before you overheat
Also ppfld

Even after nerfs half the cd.

Edited by davoodoo, 25 August 2016 - 01:40 PM.

[Tiantara]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 August 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

Did you test them in a 12v12 while the other team was using known top builds? If not, then you haven't ACTUALLY tested them either.

- Well... you see - on PTS only 8 vs 8 mode. And if on PTS1 a can get enough people to test that, now, on PTS2 I see more people who only hate ED or do ideas totally aside of what we have now in our hands. I cant get as much people as on PTS1 now, but I want. Maybe no one care about it, maybe all wait for day when new system come pretty unroasted. I'm always glad to try builds from top to abomination mix to see how it works and how it can be used not only Quick Time maps, but also on FW maps and temp. Do I see many volunteers around? Maybe you? Anyone else?

In actual battle 1 lance always late or run aside. So 8 vs 8 pretty close to 12 vs 12...

davoodoo, on 25 August 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

oh idk what could fit

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=349&l=stock
this maybe

20 by 20 in doubletap practically heat neutral... youll run out of ammo before you overheat
Also ppfld

Even after nerfs half the cd.

- You forget about c.a.s.e. That build die quickly.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tiantara, on 25 August 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

- You forget about c.a.s.e. That build die quickly.

Let alone because it is a King Crab, which isn't that great to begin with.
Nevermind, missed the fact that right torso is completely crit padded, so really it is solid, except for the fact it is still a King Crab.

This is a better build, sure it doesn't have CASE, but you don't really need it with all the crits filled on a dakka machine
Or if you are really scared about ammo explosions (or running out of ammo) or find the UACs somewhat pointless.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 August 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[davoodoo]

Tiantara, on 25 August 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

- You forget about c.a.s.e. That build die quickly.

From what?? 10% chance of explosion if you do 10 dmg crit to 3/12 slot ammo??

still after i bought it on some sale ive refitted it into that
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5436b4728711668

ive managed to run out of ammo dozens of times yet im i still got not a single ammo explosion, usually i lose that st or empty it all before it happens, to the point where i started thinking if i should drop case for 0.5 ton extra armor.

Edited by davoodoo, 25 August 2016 - 02:16 PM.

[jweltsch]

Tiantara, on 25 August 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

- Did you tested them?

Dont need to test to know its out right worse. On live: my warhawk with 4x clan erppcs: fire 2 wait half a second fire 2 more no ghost heat. On test, fire 2 at once...... ghost heat...... fire 2 again in .5 seconds..... TONS OF GHOST HEAT. I think anyone with half a brain can say that there really isnt anything overpowering about the 4 ppc warhawk, why did it need MASSIVE nerfs? I see no reason for any clan mech to take a ppc with the way it stands on the test server.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Monkey Lover, on 25 August 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Because pts #1 I was about to dual gauss +4ppc snipe on a kdk. Now it's more setup for 2 ppc. Even 2ppc +gauss works well as long as you don't alpha.

But the cooldown nerf is still unnecessary. It doesn't target boats, it targets mechs that use only one (or two) PPCs and need that lower cooldown to get some shred of DPS.

[meteorol]

Tiantara, on 25 August 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

- You forget about c.a.s.e. That build die quickly.

The chance of ammo explosions is so comically low that case really doesn't make any difference. It simply doesn't happen. I can't even remember the last time my ammo got critted. And i'm running builds with up to 10t uncased ammo.

Ammo explosions are a non factor when building mechs.

davoodoo, on 25 August 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

ive managed to run out of ammo dozens of times yet im i still got not a single ammo explosion, usually i lose that st or empty it all before it happens, to the point where i started thinking if i should drop case for 0.5 ton extra armor.

You absolutely should.

[Old-dirty B]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 25 August 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

But the cooldown nerf is still unnecessary. It doesn't target boats, it targets mechs that use only one (or two) PPCs and need that lower cooldown to get some shred of DPS.

This, the cool down hits single ppc builds the most, which were already at a tough spot, since most of these builds do not have the room to put other weapons besides it.

[Widowmaker1981]

Tiantara, on 25 August 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

- You forget about c.a.s.e. That build die quickly.

Yes, that confirms my previous opinion that you have no idea what you are talking about, lol.

Ammo explosions are incredibly rare in MWO (a 10 health 1 slot item has to receive enough crit damage to be destroyed before the component that contains it is destroyed, and IF that unlikely event happens, there is a 10% chance of explosion. talking a 1 in 100 games event) and should be ignored entirely at the build stage. CASE is a useless item.

[Wibbledtodeath]

Yup.

PPC's were NEVER very effective on their own in MWO (even when the cicada had a total cool down boost that put it at 3x ROF, awesome PPC speed quirks - the PPC was not very competitive as a lone weapon).
They are a real threat in multiples or combined with other PPFLD.

Therefore, while I understand increasing energy draw to reduce PP alpha strikes at range- the PPC itself should have good stats (lower heat, decent speed etc) so that it can be an option for med-light mechs which otherwise don't have room for have a lot of ballistic options.

[Kmieciu]

PPC are only worth using on mechs with +50% velocity quirks.
When you engage targets 500+ meters away they can accelerate/deaccelerate or turn and you will miss that shot with unquirked PPC or hit an undamaged component, effectively wasting the shot.

At shorter ranges... just use LPLs.

Edited by Kmieciu, 26 August 2016 - 05:39 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Kmieciu, on 26 August 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

PPC are only worth using on mechs with +50% velocity quirks.
When you engage targets 500+ meters away they can accelerate/deaccelerate or turn and you will miss that shot with unquirked PPC or hit an undamaged component, effectively wasting the shot.

Ahem, beg to differ. They won't be worth using at all at 5.25s cooldown. But on live? If you know how to predict and lead targets they can wonderful on smaller mechs. You can pop a shot, and be back behind cover before retaliatory laser fire can do much more than scuff the paint.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 26 August 2016 - 05:46 AM.

[Chaossaur]

Ppc's with splash is the way to go, makes them a different weapon than any existing too.. gfx already indicate a splash too

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Chaossaur, on 26 August 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

Ppc's with splash is the way to go, makes them a different weapon than any existing too.. gfx already indicate a splash too

Splash is fine so long as 10 dmg gets to the intended component and the cooldown remains at or below 4.5s

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 26 August 2016 - 06:09 AM.

[Tiantara]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 26 August 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

Splash is fine so long as 10 dmg gets to the intended component and the cooldown remains at or below 4.5s

- Maybe not exact 10, but yes. I wrote some thoughts in my post.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Tiantara, on 26 August 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

- Maybe not exact 10, but yes. I wrote some thoughts in my post.

It would be neat if the more PPCs you hit a component with, the more the damage spreads. Dimishing returns on precision for PPC boats.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 26 August 2016 - 08:02 AM.