111 replies to this topic

[Mole]

Ace Selin, on 01 September 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

Yes sounds totally, LRMs are too good as they are now and should be reduced to a support weapon.
After hundreds of these threads for the love of all that is good PGI, pls nerf the uber OP LRMs.

**** I hope that's sarcasm.

[Maker L106]

I'd like to take this moment since this is a topic I see no need to start a new one.

I see a lot of comments here saying tag / just hold locks etc: are ways to help LRM's.

The last week a friend and myself have been running a NARC mech and an Artemis LRM mech. Just know were not running assaults and he isn't helpless in CQ, probably no where NEAR meta, then again neither of the mechs are. My NARC mech for example has a few LPL's to fight with. That said were also Trash Tier 4 players... so take that how you will. or that's where we are currently anyway.

At any rate this particular setup, of course, we have colossal failures. But then we also are communicating often with teams letting them know I'm NARCing so they need to look out for it. I try to narc slow targets in the open (which yeah... bad player i suppose but also map dependent). It doesn't always get us the win and I've obviously been absolutely wrecked when we get pushed having no assaults or big (fat) bro's to run to if need be.

I'm just wondering from the point of view from players who are at the top of their game or at least feel they're skilled enough to give a critique to some degree. Is it even remotely possible to run this kind of setup at or even somewhat near the Tier 1 / 2 range or am I still playing in the sandbox with the other children? (that's not a jab at anyone i just never paid attention to how Public Group que works)

[El Bandito]

Maker L106, on 01 September 2016 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'm just wondering from the point of view from players who are at the top of their game or at least feel they're skilled enough to give a critique to some degree. Is it even remotely possible to run this kind of setup at or even somewhat near the Tier 1 / 2 range or am I still playing in the sandbox with the other children? (that's not a jab at anyone i just never paid attention to how Public Group que works)

A good Narcer partnered with an experienced lurmer makes a big difference even in T1 pug matches, group queue, or FW. Only in competitive settings, that combo falls flat.

[Navid A1]

To add to bandito's comment:

Maker L106, on 01 September 2016 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'd like to take this moment since this is a topic I see no need to start a new one.

I see a lot of comments here saying tag / just hold locks etc: are ways to help LRM's.

The last week a friend and myself have been running a NARC mech and an Artemis LRM mech. Just know were not running assaults and he isn't helpless in CQ, probably no where NEAR meta, then again neither of the mechs are. My NARC mech for example has a few LPL's to fight with. That said were also Trash Tier 4 players... so take that how you will. or that's where we are currently anyway.

At any rate this particular setup, of course, we have colossal failures. But then we also are communicating often with teams letting them know I'm NARCing so they need to look out for it. I try to narc slow targets in the open (which yeah... bad player i suppose but also map dependent). It doesn't always get us the win and I've obviously been absolutely wrecked when we get pushed having no assaults or big (fat) bro's to run to if need be.

I'm just wondering from the point of view from players who are at the top of their game or at least feel they're skilled enough to give a critique to some degree. Is it even remotely possible to run this kind of setup at or even somewhat near the Tier 1 / 2 range or am I still playing in the sandbox with the other children? (that's not a jab at anyone i just never paid attention to how Public Group que works)

First, Lurm101:do not bring artemis and narc together... artemis cancels narc bonuses... it you have artemis, your mech is blind to narc accuracy an lock speed bonus... meaning that a standard launcher is more accurate in hitting a narc'd target with no LOS.

Second: Stay around 300 to 400m near your target... lurms from 600m away are useless.

Third: do not suicide trying to narc... the moment will come, be patient.

Forth: do not use LRM15s an 20s... its a crime and reportable for helping the enemy.

Edited by Navid A1, 01 September 2016 - 05:56 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

How stop lrm fest ?

Get a proper MM, a non fake high tier system then grind to high tier and play with good pilots you will see lrm fest will migrate to lower tier like magic...

[Maker L106]

Navid A1, on 01 September 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

To add to bandito's comment:



First, Lurm101:do not bring artemis and narc together... artemis cancels narc bonuses... it you have artemis, your mech is blind to narc accuracy an lock speed bonus... meaning that a standard launcher is more accurate in hitting a narc'd target with no LOS.

Second: Stay around 300 to 400m near your target... lurms from 600m away are useless.

Third: do not suicide trying to narc... the moment will come, be patient.

Forth: do not use LRM15s an 20s... its a crime and reportable for helping the enemy.

Thank you, I was unaware of the cancellation due to Artemis.

[SamsungNinja]

Maker L106, on 01 September 2016 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'd like to take this moment since this is a topic I see no need to start a new one.

I see a lot of comments here saying tag / just hold locks etc: are ways to help LRM's.

The last week a friend and myself have been running a NARC mech and an Artemis LRM mech. Just know were not running assaults and he isn't helpless in CQ, probably no where NEAR meta, then again neither of the mechs are. My NARC mech for example has a few LPL's to fight with. That said were also Trash Tier 4 players... so take that how you will. or that's where we are currently anyway.

At any rate this particular setup, of course, we have colossal failures. But then we also are communicating often with teams letting them know I'm NARCing so they need to look out for it. I try to narc slow targets in the open (which yeah... bad player i suppose but also map dependent). It doesn't always get us the win and I've obviously been absolutely wrecked when we get pushed having no assaults or big (fat) bro's to run to if need be.

I'm just wondering from the point of view from players who are at the top of their game or at least feel they're skilled enough to give a critique to some degree. Is it even remotely possible to run this kind of setup at or even somewhat near the Tier 1 / 2 range or am I still playing in the sandbox with the other children? (that's not a jab at anyone i just never paid attention to how Public Group que works)

An optimal NARC mech is a fast light running ECM and a flat dark grey or black paintjob. You don't want to stand out or get noticed. Raven 3Ls are good for this and make a nice break from the twin ERLL commonality.

Get behind the enemy and wait. Wait for them to start engaging your team and then start NARCing. They'll likely be too focused on dealing damage that they won't notice the NARC icon until the LRMs start rolling in. Resist the urge to NARC everything in sight, due to the timed nature of the equipment. Use the NARC to help eliminate priority targets like Kodiaks, Dire Wolves, Timbys, Atlases, and King Crabs (among others).

Doing this well can put a lot of pressure on the opposing team.

All that being said, if your friend is a bad LRM user, your effort might be for naught. He needs to be mobile and able to reposition quickly. Ideally, LRM targets should also be under 600m. The closer to 300m you get, the less likely they are to avoid the incoming rain. This means staying with the pushers and providing LRM support to the push, not sitting in the back and making it rain.

NARC + a good LRM setup with competent pilots can turn a fairly dopey weapon into something that really messes people up.

[N0ni]

[Lostdragon]

You guys are mean, OP just wants to know...

https://youtu.be/lIPan-rEQJA?t=35

[mailin]

One thing no one has said yet, if you're dying too much to lrms, look for either the spotter or the UAV.

It really strikes me as funny that people will either say it's a no-skill weapon, or they are total garbage. They are easy to use, but using them well takes skill. They don't necessarily get a lot of kills, but they can do a lot of damage. Also, admittedly the best, most common way to avoid lrms is to keep under cover. For that reason, it can be a great way to keep the enemy pinned down while you move in.

The psychological effect is not to be discounted however. It can be hard to concentrate when you keep getting the incoming missile warning and have to listen to the missiles hitting your mech, not to mention the cockpit shake and explosions obscuring your vision.

Furthermore, I disagree with the poster who said that lrms are useless beyond 600m. At about 500 m they fly in a higher arc, which means one can stay a little behind the brawlers and actually fire lrms over their heads to hit the enemy.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Wheres that vid Heffay made about lrms fallin on my head lol

[RestosIII]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 01 September 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Wheres that vid Heffay made about lrms fallin on my head lol

[Navid A1]

Maker L106, on 01 September 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

Thank you, I was unaware of the cancellation due to Artemis.

Here, take a look:

Spoiler

How spread reduction and lock-on time works:

TAG:
Lock-on time reduction: -50%
Spread reduction: -25%


NARC:
Lock-on time reduction: -50%
Spread reduction: -25%


Artemis with LOS:
Lock-on time reduction: -50%
Spread reduction: -33%


Artemis without LOS:
Lock-on time reduction: -50%
Spread reduction: 0%


Artemis (LOS) + TAG
Lock-on time reduction: -75%
Spread reduction: -50.3%


Artemis (No LOS) + TAG:
Lock-on time reduction: -75%
Spread reduction: -25%


Artemis (LOS) + NARC:
Lock-on time reduction: -50%
Spread reduction: -33%
(No bonus from NARC if you have artemis)


Artemis (No LOS) + NARC:
Lock-on time reduction: -50%
Spread reduction: 0%
(yes, if you have artemis you won't get any bonus from a narc'd target, a standard launcher will be more accurate in this case)


NARC + TAG:
Lock-on time reduction: -75%
Spread reduction: -43.7%

Edited by Navid A1, 01 September 2016 - 07:47 PM.

[BadgerBeard]

I'm a relatively inexperienced player (Just scraped in to tier 3 atm) and new to LRM boating myself, so take the following with a pinch of salt.....

My LRM boat of choice atm is the Kintaro 18/ GB and I'll admit to having rather a lot of fun with it. That being said here's just a few observations from recent experience.

1. A single AMS will almost neuter me when chain-firing( which is my preferred "tactic"), A single volley is enough to tell me that I may as well switch target unless I want to waste a lot of ammo. If you choose not to use AMS, then learn not to stand in the open.

2. Long range firing ( > 400-500m) is largely useless against anyone who has even the slightest idea how to use cover. At this range or higher the best I can really hope to do is make the enemy back off/ break contact to allow my team to move up or into better firing positions. How useful this is is unquantifiable, and probably not worth the effort in most cases.

3. You ignore UAV's at your own peril. Seriously, if you are taking LRM spam then Look up!.....if there is nothing up, Look around! (sneaky scouts are a awesome).

4. Stop voting for Arctic Highland......This is actually my least favourite map, and yet I get stuck playing it over and over again, it's the reason I bought the Kintaro. The more people I can LRM to death on this map (and it's possibly the easiest map to do that on) maybe, just maybe, people will stop voting for it. (One can dream).

5. Never let a Kintaro take, and hold, the top platform on Manifold if your team is not in the basement and no good at dodging missiles. Seriously, this is possibly one of the easiest maps to avoid LRM spam on, and yet it's responsible for many of my highest damage games, second only to Highlands.

Ultimately, as others have pointed out, LRM's a usually only an issue for those who lack the experience to counter them effectively and that's purely down to the individual.
As someone who uses LRM's I freely admit that most of my best matches are more due to serious failure on the part of my targets than to my own abilities or weapon choice. LRM's are a teaching tool, both for the user and the target, in both cases you can learn a lot about the use of cover, the dangers of UAV's, the values of a good scout and the massive importance of careful positioning.

In light of this I'd suggest to the OP that before you call for nerfs to LRM's, you first spend a little time LRM'ing yourself and see first-hand just how easy it is for your missiles to be evaded, and how it's done. I fully understand that as a new player it can be tricky to avoid panicking when you are getting hammered, and as such learning the best ways to counter it may take a bit longer, but by actually running with LRM's for a while you get the chance to see how to "neutralize" them while not having Bitchin' Betty screaming in your ear the whole time.

I've died to LRM's on more than one occasion, and will readily admit that it was almost certainly my own fault every time. Either I was out of position and got punished for it, or I did not react appropriately and get back into cover fast enough....also I am not ashamed to say I've just out-right panicked at times and died because of it (rabbit in the headlights kind of thing) although this is a lot rarer nowadays.

Oh one other thing, it doesn't take long as a Lurm boat to learn the hard way just what happens to you if you are the "sit right at the back and derp" kind of boater. 2-3 back-up lasers don't really mean a damn when the enemy ACH/ streak-cat etc. come a'callin. This generally hurts

Edited by BadgerBeard, 02 September 2016 - 12:21 AM.

[VitriolicViolet]

ive never told someone to get gitgud but gitgud

LRMs are only a bother if you are in completely open space at 48 kph (you really should be moving at at least 54 anyway, unless its the glorious Urbie). Even then I have 3 assault mechs that can take 2 AMS.
ECM, AMS, radar derp, using cover etc will stop them.

Im real tired of these 'oh noes LRMs are haxx' threads i want them to be buffed if anything, they kind of suck.

[C E Dwyer]

Oh no, not another I can't stand out in the open with a slow mech doing dumb things so I want weapons nerfed thread Batman !

[RestosIII]

Cathy, on 02 September 2016 - 12:17 AM, said:

Oh no, not another I can't stand out in the open with a slow mech doing dumb things so I want weapons nerfed thread Batman !

[The6thMessenger]

What if LRM users which is not locked, have their location briefly target table via Proxy? Other LRMs can lock back to the LRM user and rain their own LRMs back.

But the catch is that it is localized on the position they fired the LRM from, so the LRM-firing mech can move away while enemies can still fire on their last position, as well as their info is not available -- type of mech, their vulnerabilities etc. That a bonafide legit lock does -- all this proxy-target does is allow LRMs to lock and fire.

Another feature i think is that Machine-Guns can act as pseudo-AMS that one can shoot at a missile cluster and take them down.

Full interest of disclosure, personally, i am sick and tired of LRMs, so i am quite biased. I am not a Balancing Guru though, i don't insist that these ideas would work. But i'm just throwing things to the table.

[Kin3ticX]

LRMs are weak imo

Low-Medium Power
Low Skill Floor
Feast or Famine Nature
Occasionally defeat a superior pilot with them caught off guard
Massacre players that just walk into the open and hand themselves to you
Get destroyed facing superior pilots w/ direct fire mechs

They felt better at 1.1 damage but at 1.0 it feels like it takes so much ammo to get anything done since the damage spreads

Edited by Kin3ticX, 02 September 2016 - 01:44 AM.

[Kotzi]

Poor OP. Barraged by lrms ingame, barraged by arguments in the forum. If you are lurmed to death its actually your fault. If you are lurmed to death because the enemy has a dedicated spotter/narcer, tough luck its called teamplay. Cant be nerfed.