So... The Clan Erppc
#1
Posted 01 September 2016 - 06:48 PM
#2
Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:01 PM
It's hot enough, really, but maybe a bit good strong overall right now. Lower velocity would be horrible. So, cooldown and draw are our options.
Draw has the upside of not nerfing single-ERPPC mechs (which are generally the worse of the Clam mechs) while preventing/curtailing dual+ cERPPC mechs.
Cooldown hits everyone equally, and serves to push them more and more into long range only.
#3
Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:15 PM
#4
Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:17 PM
#5
Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:37 PM
Edited by Monkey Lover, 01 September 2016 - 07:55 PM.
#6
Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:40 PM
Deathlike, on 01 September 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:
Well, the low RoF does punish missed shots more than on the IS PPCs, although would higher heat be an option too? I like the thought of a 7s cooldown, maybe even slightly higher, then give cooldown quirks on the Summoner, Adder, and Shadowcat
#7
Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:53 PM
Gentleman Reaper, on 01 September 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:
Well, the low RoF does punish missed shots more than on the IS PPCs, although would higher heat be an option too? I like the thought of a 7s cooldown, maybe even slightly higher, then give cooldown quirks on the Summoner, Adder, and Shadowcat
ROF is not the problem.. it's the heat generated for the damage dealt. Might as well just run an IS PPC instead, despite the min range.
#8
Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:04 PM
#9
Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:08 PM
Dee Eight, on 01 September 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:
If we used tabletop to balance things... there would be no need of an IS LL when the Clan ERMED is superior.
Holding to those values for dear life is not productive.
#10
Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:12 PM
#11
Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:23 PM
#12
Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:30 PM
#13
Posted 01 September 2016 - 09:17 PM
Edited by Pjwned, 01 September 2016 - 09:18 PM.
#14
Posted 01 September 2016 - 09:45 PM
RestosIII, on 01 September 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:
Well as another PPC lover I'd love to see PPCs reverted to their 4.6s Cooldown. If cERPPCs come out of this PTS with a 5+ second Cooldown, and a Power draw of over 16 I think I will have had my fill.
The PPC niche just won't be cultivating the type of gameplay I'm interested in anymore. 30 dmg repeatable PPFLD every 6 seconds feels good, but 15? It feels too clunky to me personally.
#15
Posted 01 September 2016 - 09:53 PM
Personally I find this change pointless, and still fail to understand why IS PPC isn't simply made to match CERPPC with 10 damage and 5 damage splash.
#16
Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:00 PM
Sader325, on 01 September 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:
Personally I find this change pointless, and still fail to understand why IS PPC isn't simply made to match CERPPC with 10 damage and 5 damage splash.
I'm pretty sure "lol lore" is still the answer to this, despite having no logical reason other than "not TT specs".
You know how this convo goes.
#17
Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:32 PM
Wintersdark, on 01 September 2016 - 07:01 PM, said:
It's hot enough, really, but maybe a bit good strong overall right now. Lower velocity would be horrible. So, cooldown and draw are our options.
Draw has the upside of not nerfing single-ERPPC mechs (which are generally the worse of the Clam mechs) while preventing/curtailing dual+ cERPPC mechs.
Cooldown hits everyone equally, and serves to push them more and more into long range only.
I think changes to cooldowns should be compensated with changes to range. The idea is to encourage long-range use of PPCs.
#18
Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:42 PM
Deathlike, on 01 September 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:
Advantages Clan: heat efficiency, weight, slots, damage per second, alpha damage, raw damage
Advantages IS: quirks
You might as well make IS-PPCs unavailable for mechs without quirks. And even with überquirks the comparison is pretty damn close, since trying to compete with 10 damage for 7 tons against 15 damage for 6 tons leaves you at a ridiculous starting position..
#19
Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:45 PM
DerMaulwurf, on 01 September 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:
Advantages Clan: heat efficiency, weight, slots, damage per second, alpha damage, raw damage
Advantages IS: quirks
You might as well make IS-PPCs unavailable for mechs without quirks. And even with überquirks the comparison is pretty damn close, since trying to compete with 10 damage for 7 tons against 15 damage for 6 tons leaves you at a ridiculous starting position..
You would need something along the lines of 20% total heat gen reduction for ERPPCs, in addition to any sort of PPC/ERPPC velocity buff before I'd bother.
Even then, I would rather run a regular PPC instead because 3 of them is still better than 2 ERPPCs.
#20
Posted 01 September 2016 - 11:21 PM
Deathlike, on 01 September 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:
You would need something along the lines of 20% total heat gen reduction for ERPPCs, in addition to any sort of PPC/ERPPC velocity buff before I'd bother.
Even then, I would rather run a regular PPC instead because 3 of them is still better than 2 ERPPCs.
The fact that the IS-ERPPC is always nerfed/buffed in tandem with the IS-PPC is another issue. Internal IS balance has favored the latter for a long time now.
The PPC may reach better heat efficiency with quirks, but it pays for in worse projectile speed, lower range and that ****** min-range. And you're still looking at needing 21tons and 9 slots of IS-PPCs to equal the PPFLD of 2 cER-PPCs (12tons and 4 slots). You need some monster-quirks to compensate for that. And forget mechs that aren't quirked up to the gills.
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