145 replies to this topic

[Mycrus]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 02 September 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

I was just in a game where a 2x ERLL Spider almost won the game for us when everyone else was dead, and he pulled 3 kills to tie up the game 11-11 in the last 5 mins of the game. It came down to him vs a Kodiak, and the match was to 53 sec before the kodiak got him. That was an amazing game to watch.

What were the enemy doing? QQing in all chat the whole time that they should be reporting the guy or we should be calling out his grid square and when the guy finally went down, one guy was like "was it worth it?"

That was the best match Ive seen in a long time, and all some people could do was complain -.-

It was an AMAZING match. If youre not here for that why are you here?

as a light pilot, long-range poking lights are disease that need to be put down...

they aren't real lights...

[Requiemking]

Mycrus, on 03 September 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

as a light pilot, long-range poking lights are disease that need to be put down...

they aren't real lights...

They are as much a Light mech as any other, just like Cicadas are as much a Medium mech as every other. What, is the Adder not a Light? Is the Panther not a Light? Both of them are 35 ton Light mechs, yet they are both long-range poking light by nature.

[TWIAFU]

Mystere, on 02 September 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

What can I say? A big chunk of the player base suffers from very severe ADHD that unfortunately a "self-inflicted" () bullet to the head is the only solution.

Preach on brother!

[Razorfish]

B0oN, on 03 September 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

People were jelly of the awesomeness and brilliance of the 2ERLL Spider pilot, dats all ^^

No that’s not it. People get tired of the bad hitreg and lag shield on fast lights.

[Requiemking]

Razorfish, on 03 September 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

No that’s not it. People get tired of the bad hitreg and lag shield on fast lights.

HSR was fixed some time ago. As a Locust pilot, I can tell you that my so called "lag shield" is practically non-existent.

[Mystere]

Sethliopod, on 03 September 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

For every 2xERLL light last man who wants to fight on their terms, there are ten one/zero-guns left, run & hide power-down wieners who really want to maintain their kill/death ratio.
So you have to cut a little slack to the QQ'ers when it's not clear in which category that last man falls.

On the other hand, it's their dime, one can always quit that match, and never, ever report their location.
Plus, those rare matches where the last light wreaks havoc sure are memorable!

**** the QQ'ers!

[Mystere]

MrMadguy, on 03 September 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

Ehhh. Sorry. I've made mistake. Not +75 sec for every enemy player alive - +75 sec for every player in your team alive. I.e. 15 minutes engage timer for all players alive (whole match - it's necessary, cuz on some maps it can take 5-7 minutes to engage for the first time) and 75 seconds engage timer for last man standing.

And this WILL WORK. Lights will have to engage with enemy team - not force enemy team to go search them around whole map. You should understand, why it's so necessary. First of all, team, that has more 'Mechs alive - winning team. And according to rules winning team is entitled to secure it's victory. I.e. they are not obligated to go searching for last Light 'Mech and risk to lose as the result. They are entitled to stay together at secure spot on the map. It's Light pilot, who is obligated to engage with them. The only thing, that prevents them from doing it - is the fact, that last Light 'Mech holds them as hostages and forces them to play his unfair starvation tactic game, otherwise they'd waste their time. I.e. other players have to perform potentially suicidal attack on this Light 'Mech pilot in order to simply try to prevent him from wasting their time. I.e. it's "I'd better die, than sit in this match for whole 15 minutes". And this is against rules. Lights are currently the only 'Mechs, that can execute starvation tactic, cuz they have speed and size advantage. This advantages can't be countered by any other 'Mechs. And advantage, that can't be countered = unfair advantage. That's why starvation tactic is considered OP in all games in the world. It allows weak player to kill strong ones only via using more time and maximum surviving tactic. All game modes in all games are built around simple rule: you're passive and avoid engagement = you lose. Even in MWO if you just hide and avoid engagement in any mode - you lose. But not Skirmish. Skirmish is broken and must be fixed. This fact makes Lights imbalanced vs other 'Mechs. And this imbalance - is one of the reasons, why I don't play this game any more.

P.S. Your videos, where one Light can kill half of enemy team, only prove, that problem must be fixed. Cuz the reason, why it happens, is not skill - it's imbalance and exploiting of unfair starvation tactic. Also starvation tactic = 100% selfish rambo-style gameplay and complete lack of teamplay.

What an utterly hilarious justification.

[Mystere]

Dracol, on 03 September 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

From his tone, MrSadguy was a slow boat pilot when he played. Never play to an enemy's strength...basic wisdom for most people. Light vrs assault, 1 v 1, the best chance a light with long range weapons has is to use what has been called "starvation tactics". Implement a system that removes that and another light playstyle is gimped.

Well, lights are apparently only good for scouting and as padding for someone else's stats.

[Requiemking]

Dracol, on 03 September 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

From his tone, MrSadguy was a slow boat pilot when he played. Never play to an enemy's strength...basic wisdom for most people. Light vrs assault, 1 v 1, the best chance a light with long range weapons has is to use what has been called "starvation tactics". Implement a system that removes that and another light playstyle is gimped.

Implement a system like that and ALL Light playstyles are completely gimped.

[Wintersdark]

Razorfish, on 03 September 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

No that’s not it. People get tired of the bad hitreg and lag shield on fast lights.

< Assault pilot.

Lights don't have lagshields. HSR works fine.

People are just much worse shots than they think they are.

I've seen a LOT of videos showing "lagshields"... which aren't. They're just bad gunnery. Sure, sometimes hitreg bites you in the ***, but that'll happen irrespective of the size of your opponent.

[Wintersdark]

Requiemking, on 03 September 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

Implement a system like that and ALL Light playstyles are completely gimped.

Those evil lights! How dare they use their speed to maintain distance and fire from safety against the slow moving assault capable of one-shotting them if they get close?

Seriously, this is absurd. Lights are and remain the lowest overall scoring weight class, the least played weight class, and the only things the Light has going for them is speed and size (when they even have that). Demanding lights give up their speed advantage to control engagement range is like asking the Assault pilot to just drop all his armor and heat sinks.

If you took nothing but short ranged weapons, and you ended up in a match against someone fast enough to stay out of your weapons range, this isn't a game balance problem, it's a mech building problem. You designed your mech with a critical weakness, and that light pilot exploited it.

It's like that guy getting rekt by LRM's complaining when he didn't bother taking AMS.

[Supersmacky]

MrMadguy, on 03 September 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

Ehhh. Sorry. I've made mistake. Not +75 sec for every enemy player alive - +75 sec for every player in your team alive. I.e. 15 minutes engage timer for all players alive (whole match - it's necessary, cuz on some maps it can take 5-7 minutes to engage for the first time) and 75 seconds engage timer for last man standing.

And this WILL WORK. Lights will have to engage with enemy team - not force enemy team to go search them around whole map. You should understand, why it's so necessary. First of all, team, that has more 'Mechs alive - winning team. And according to rules winning team is entitled to secure it's victory. I.e. they are not obligated to go searching for last Light 'Mech and risk to lose as the result. They are entitled to stay together at secure spot on the map. It's Light pilot, who is obligated to engage with them. The only thing, that prevents them from doing it - is the fact, that last Light 'Mech holds them as hostages and forces them to play his unfair starvation tactic game, otherwise they'd waste their time. I.e. other players have to perform potentially suicidal attack on this Light 'Mech pilot in order to simply try to prevent him from wasting their time. I.e. it's "I'd better die, than sit in this match for whole 15 minutes". And this is against rules. Lights are currently the only 'Mechs, that can execute starvation tactic, cuz they have speed and size advantage. This advantages can't be countered by any other 'Mechs. And advantage, that can't be countered = unfair advantage. That's why starvation tactic is considered OP in all games in the world. It allows weak player to kill strong ones only via using more time and maximum surviving tactic. All game modes in all games are built around simple rule: you're passive and avoid engagement = you lose. Even in MWO if you just hide and avoid engagement in any mode - you lose. But not Skirmish. Skirmish is broken and must be fixed. This fact makes Lights imbalanced vs other 'Mechs. And this imbalance - is one of the reasons, why I don't play this game any more.

P.S. Your videos, where one Light can kill half of enemy team, only prove, that problem must be fixed. Cuz the reason, why it happens, is not skill - it's imbalance and exploiting of unfair starvation tactic. Also starvation tactic = 100% selfish rambo-style gameplay and complete lack of teamplay.

Not just no, but "hell no"

Just because you got killed doesn't mean a light pilot that has managed to stay alive should be punished. You don't want to wait till the end, exit the match and go do something else. Seriously, why does everyone else have to change the way they play because of you? How very sociopathic of you. So, it's 'team play' until x number of your team or the other team get killed, then it suddenly isn't?!? I thought the 'team' was trying to win? So, if that is what the team is trying to do, and there is still a chance of winning, why in the world to you want to force a loss on people?

Seriously, stop being so self-centered, self-entitled and selfish (and I mean that in the best way possible).

Edited by Supersmacky, 03 September 2016 - 08:29 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 03 September 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

For people QQing about lights holding up a game, guess what, play a mode with a secondary objective that forces them to face you or lose. You know like Assault, Conquest, and Domination. Yes a light can run around caps on Conquest or get to your base before you can get to theirs, but, it makes you have to make a tactical choice of where to go and try to predict which way they will move to try to win instead of the light only having to worry about not dying until time runs out. This is primarily why I dislike Skirmish because people qq exceptionally hard in Skirmish because the only objective is kills and when someone goes and hides it prolongs the match. Making it so there is no draw situation forces the hand of one team or the other to respond to what they are doing in order to win.

An Engagement Timer will do nothing but put more pressure on a single player to do well, 15 minute matches are already short enough, let them take their time to do the best they can, if you hate people running the timer and cowering don't vote for Skirmish, vote for something that lets you win without killing all so it is a non-issue.

That's what I'm talking about. One player, being able to hold the game - is bad game design. Secondary objective should be added to Skirmish in order to fix "Run away and hide" problem - Engage timer. This feature was doubtful in the past, but when PGI proved, that they can detect engagement - via creating Domination mode, that is built around it - Engage timer became just a matter of PGI's will.

[Besh]

MrMadguy, on 03 September 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

That's what I'm talking about. One player, being able to hold the game - is bad game design. Secondary objective should be added to Skirmish in order to fix "Run away and hide" problem - Engage timer. This feature was doubtful in the past, but when PGI proved, that they can detect engagement - via creating Domination mode, that is built around it - Engage timer became just a matter of PGI's will.

But, the Light or Medium running to keep his distance, then when at a favourable position for him firing his weapons...he IS engaging ! .

Do you disagree ?

Does "engage" mean "come close to me, where my armor and weapons are far superior to yours, so I can kill you easy" to you, in this context ?

Would that not be suiciding of the Light/Medium Pilot ?

And what makes you think it would be ok to require someone who thinks he still has a fighting Chance, and actually does his best to try and pull of a Win for his Team, to simply drop his pants, walk over and allow himself to be killed ?

*sheesh* serious man...

Edited by Besh, 04 September 2016 - 12:03 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Besh, on 03 September 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

But, the Light or Medium running to keep his distance, then when at a favourable position for him firing his weapons...he IS engaging ! .

Do you disagree ?

Does "engage" mean "come close to me, where my armor and weapons are far superior to yours, so I can kill you easy" to you, in this context ?

Would that not be suiciding of the Light/Medium Pilot ?

And what makes you think it would be ok to require someone who thinks he still has a fighting Chance, and actually does his best to try and pull of a Win for his Team, to simply drop his pants, walk over and allow himself to be killed ?

*sheesh* serious man...

Simple thing. There is no way to counter speed/size/range advantage. And this is complete imbalance and bad game design. Simply because players won't play games, where they are doomed to lose. Because game stops being game, when you lose your ability to play it and your chance to win. Secondary objectives exist in games exactly to prevent this situation. You have to get closer and expose yourself too, if you don't want to lose match due to secondary objectives.

Do you think, it's unfair for Light 'Mech pilot to expose himself in fair fight with other 'Mechs and lose as the result? Simple question. Do you understand, that you lose your match long before this moment - you lose your match, when you let enemy team stomp your team, instead of trying to help it? If you are so super-skilled, then why can't you win your match, while your team is still alive? May be due to your "Survival squirrel" tactic? You avoid engaging with enemies at the beginning of the match and literally sacrifice your team. And then you expect them to love you? So. Simple thing - try winning matches, while your team is still alive. If your team is dead and you obviously lost your match - accept this truth with honor.

You may think, what you want. I won't play game, if I doomed to lose it. I won't allow Light abusers mock me. This is my choice. You are nobody here to tell me, that I'm wrong.

I would refuse to pursue this "Run away and hide" jerks and simply quit match not to waste my time, but: 1) This is against rules 2) I would lose my rewards it this case - i.e. waste my time anyway. So the only possible solution to this problem - not to play this game at all.

Edited by MrMadguy, 04 September 2016 - 02:21 AM.

[Besh]

MrMadguy, on 04 September 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

Simple thing. There is no way to counter speed/size/range advantage. And this is complete imbalance and bad game design. Simply because players won't play games, where they are doomed to lose. Because game stops being game, when you lose your ability to play it and your chance to win. Secondary objectives exist in games exactly to prevent this situation. You have to get closer and expose yourself too, if you don't want to lose match due to secondary objectives.

You may think, what you want. I won't play game, if I doomed to lose it. I won't allow Light abusers mock me. This is my choice. You are nobody here to tell me, that I'm wrong.

I would refuse to pursue this "Run away and hide" jerks and simply quit match not to waste my time, but: 1) This is against rules 2) I would lose my rewards it this case - i.e. waste my time anyway. So the only possible solution to this problem - not to play this game at all.

Its funny, the word "abuser" only comes in when Lights are concerned . Nobody called/calls the KDK-3 who racks up 1500 dmg and 6 kills an "Assault Abuser", everybody "OOhhhhAhhhhs" and claps hands . Could as well say he is an "AssaultHardpoint-" and "AssaultSpeedabuser"....

Its is VERY simple to counter a lone, ranged Light in Skirmish when you have several 'Mechs still alive on your Team . If you havent gotten around to figure it out yet...*doh*. I neither have the will nor time to try and explain to you . Just do not pretend it would be "unfair", or "abuse", or anything along the Lines to play a 'Mech/Class to its strength and win cos the enemy hasnt figured out how to counter you .

It as been stated many Times in this Thread, I will repeat it : What you are campaigning for is gimping an ENTIRE CLASS . The least played, mostly least paying, very likley hardest to play/master Class . MOST of its 'MECHs are borderline viable at the Moment already .

And just because a handfull of VERY gifted and skilled Light Piots can pull off an improbable turnaround occasionally ( Id guess the rate is MUCH less than one in a hundred Games ), you want to GIMP the entire Class...

Which, btw., would be I think the 4th MAJOR gimping to the ENTIRE CLASS - or at least a LOT of its Mechs - within 8 weeks or so . Knifefighting has been "mostly" killed by resize and quirk nerfiesta for many Pilots, and even with experience, the Games where you really do good playing this Style are really, REALLY rare .

Now YOU want to to kill ranged fighting, cos of a few "1 in several hundreds" tunraround Games . Honestly, I think the Game is better off with you not playing it XD, if THE condition for you to want to play it is making those magical turnarounds impossible .

If you hate Lights cos you cant stand loosing to them, ok . But please stop campaigning for making the enitre Class even LESS viable and usefull as it already is .

p.s.: I asked 4 really simple questions in my Post you replied to . I would have expected some kind of consideration and reply to those questions of you . Instead, you simply avoided them . Why ?

Edited by Besh, 04 September 2016 - 02:31 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Besh, on 04 September 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Its funny, the word "abuser" only comes in when Lights are concerned . Nobody called/calls the KDK-3 who racks up 1500 dmg and 6 kills an "Assault Abuser", everybody "OOhhhhAhhhhs" and claps hands . Could as well say he is an "AssaultHardpoint-" and "AssaultSpeedabuser"....

Its is VERY simple to counter a lone, ranged Light in Skirmish when you have several 'Mechs still alive on your Team . If you havent gotten around to figure it out yet...*doh*. I neither have the will nor time to try and explain to you . Just do not pretend it would be "unfair", or "abuse", or anything along the Lines to play a 'Mech/Class to its strength and win cos the enemy hasnt figured out how to counter you .

It as been stated many Times in this Thread, I will repeat it : What you are campaigning for is gimping an ENTIRE CLASS . The least played, mostly least paying, very likley hardest to play/master Class . MOST of its 'MECHs are borderline viable at the Moment already .

And just because a handfull of VERY gifted and skilled Light Piots can pull off an improbable turnaround occasionally ( Id guess the rate is MUCH less than one in a hundred Games ), you want to GIMP the entire Class...

Which, btw., would be I think the 4th MAJOR gimping to the ENTIRE CLASS - or at least a LOT of its Mechs - within 8 weeks or so . Knifefighting has been "mostly" killed by resize and quirk nerfiesta for many Pilots, and even with experience, the Games where you really do good playing this Style are really, REALLY rare .

Now YOU want to to kill ranged fighting, cos of a few "1 in several hundreds" tunraround Games . Honestly, I think the Game is better off with you not playing it XD, if THE condition for you to want to play it is making those magical turnarounds impossible .

If you hate Lights cos you cant stand loosing to them, ok . But please stop campaigning for making the enitre Class even LESS viable and usefull as it already is .

p.s.: I asked 4 really simple questions in my Post you replied to . I would have expected some kind of consideration and reply to those questions of you . Instead, you simply avoided them . Why ?

Worst argument, I've ever seen. Unpopularity can't be used to justify imbalance. Simply cuz there is no correlation between strength of class and unpopularity. Lights are actually OP and easiest class to play. The real reason, why they are unpopular - they are all ugly and not immersive. And class, that is really gimped and useless now - is Assaults. Simply because they're too big, slow and armor currently doesn't serve it's purpose in this game - even Medium 'Mechs can have enough firepower to 2-shot Assault's CT.

P.S. Lights and Mediums are unpopular? Ok. I would really want to return to old sweet times, when MWO was on it's peak. Just because at that moment there were no 3/3/3/3 rule and almost all matches were Assault/Heavy ones. And all this matches were really great - all were nice, balanced and enjoyable. It was actually implementation of 3/3/3/3, that was the start of all MWO's problems - when matches started to be imbalanced and plenty of stomps started to happen. I would really want to return to this times. But I can't. Because there are always 3 Lights and 3 Mediums in every team in my matches. I.e. if they're unpopular, then why do I see plenty of them in my matches?

[Besh]

MrMadguy, on 04 September 2016 - 04:26 AM, said:

Worst argument, I've ever seen. Unpopularity can't be used to justify imbalance. Simply cuz there is no correlation between strength of class and unpopularity. Lights are actually OP and easiest class to play. The real reason, why they are unpopular - they are all ugly and not immersive. And class, that is really gimped and useless now - is Assaults. Simply because they're too big, slow and armor currently doesn't serve it's purpose in this game - even Medium 'Mechs can have enough firepower to 2-shot Assault's CT.

P.S. Lights and Mediums are unpopular? Ok. I would really want to return to old sweet times, when MWO was on it's peak. Just because at that moment there were no 3/3/3/3 rule and almost all matches were Assault/Heavy ones. And all this matches were really great - all were nice, balanced and enjoyable. It was actually implementation of 3/3/3/3, that was the start of all MWO's problems - when matches started to be imbalanced and plenty of stomps started to happen. I would really want to return to this times. But I can't. Because there are always 3 Lights and 3 Mediums in every team in my matches. I.e. if they're unpopular, then why do I see plenty of them in my matches?

You have just disqualified yourself from ANY reasonable discussion about Lights, Balance, or anything related to those 2 Topics .

Are Unicorns pink or purple on the Planet you live ?

Edited by Besh, 04 September 2016 - 06:20 AM.

[Trollfeed]

Oh lol at the ERLL/LL hate. Actually large laser skirmisher is one of the most effective light builds at the moment when fighting against heavier mechs than yourself. My favourite light at the moment is wolfhound with 3 large lasers. You start the fight at extreme ranges and distract enemy murderball to shoot you and expose themselves to rest of your team, slowly going closer to fight as people get destroyed.

[MrMadguy]

Besh, on 04 September 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

You have just disqualified yourself from ANY reasonable discussion about Lights, Balance, or anything related to those 2 Topics .

Are Unicorns pink or purple on the Planet you live ?

You know. I've actually tried playing Lights. I won't say, that lag shield, bad hitreg and broken hit boxes will do all the job. But with MWO's aiming system it's extremely hard to focus enough damage on Light. Lights are completely immune to LRMs. SRMs have too much spread. Lasers are hard to be pinpointed for long enough time. All ballistics require leading, that breaks convergence. Heavier 'Mechs have widely placed hardpoints - it breaks all convergence at close range too. All you need - is to run non stop in direction, that is perpendicular to enemies' lines of fire and spam JJs. Is it really that hard? Watch any video about Lights. Light pilot simply openly attacks group of enemy 'Mechs and barely takes any damage. Do you know, that any other 'Mech will be destroyed in a split second? I actually tried playing ACH. 200K CB just for running around and pew-pewing. Money for nothing and chicks for free. Great reward in comparison to 70K, I constantly earn in Assaults. But way too easy and too boring for me.

So stop pretending, that you're victims, guys. Hardest class to play - is Assault 'Mechs. You're big slow piece of crap - extremely easy to aim at, too slow to avoid, spread damage and maneuver, can't use any cover and hard to shoot due to low wide hardpoints. Split second and your ST is ripped, cuz everybody and their grannies has enough firepower and range (especially in case of Clan laser vomit). And you can't do anything about it.

Edited by MrMadguy, 04 September 2016 - 08:30 AM.