404 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

Don't go trying to hurt my HBK's feeling now, you evil Tryhard!!!!

Too late, the HBK really needs the IS to get UAC20s to be potent again, that or a 50% cooldown quirk for AC20s (and LFEs so it isn't as slow). I kinda miss the AC20 brawling days.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 September 2016 - 06:39 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

Too late, the HBK really needs the IS to get UAC20s to be potent again, that or a 50% cooldown quirk for AC20s (and LFEs so it isn't as slow). I kinda miss the AC20 brawling days.

I would comment about still wrecking face and taking names... but since I have fired up the client twice, maybe? in the last 3 months... and I don't think in the dozen or so drops I used my HBK once... I really have no verifiable utterances of defiance.

Never did need speed, though. But if they have nerfed it's cooldown, then yeah, it could be in trouble. Which is a pity since it was not an EZMode MEtamech to begin with.

[dervishx5]

The 4G was always a favorite to bring into CW when it wasn't a super serious drop. That AC20 with modules could clean up.

But yeah on attack it was questionable at best.

[0bsidion]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

Too late, the HBK really needs the IS to get UAC20s to be potent again, that or a 50% cooldown quirk for AC20s (and LFEs so it isn't as slow). I kinda miss the AC20 brawling days.

If the IS gets single slug UAC20s like their UAC5s, that would make for some pretty scary builds. The HBK couldn't really handle the heat from any sustained combat with a UAC20 though, not without some serious quirkage.

As far as the BSW goes though, you might not be able to do the AC/20 in that arm, but you could do Gauss. Hell, you could almost do dual Gauss, if you wouldn't mind scraping off most your armor and barely having any ammo.

[Bishop Steiner]

dervishx5, on 09 September 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

The 4G was always a favorite to bring into CW when it wasn't a super serious drop. That AC20 with modules could clean up.

But yeah on attack it was questionable at best.

Or maybe you were just lacking the right Hunchback pilot....

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Or maybe you were just lacking the right Hunchback pilot....

How very true... some people just 'click' with mechs, other not so much...

Metus clicks best with Warhammers, Dragons and Locusts

Metus is incompatible with: Storm Crows (I just never do good in them...)

[dervishx5]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Or maybe you were just lacking the right Hunchback pilot....

Nah, I usually fought among real players on an organized team against real players on organized teams. And there the 4G doesn't usually cut it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

But if they have nerfed it's cooldown, then yeah, it could be in trouble. Which is a pity since it was not an EZMode MEtamech to begin with.

Well, it got nerfed indirectly by the rebalance, because SRMs became good again. It just doesn't have the oomph needed to stay in a brawl with the best of them. Don't get me wrong, I have seen pilots do great things with the 4H (for faster cooldown than the 4G) but I have pilots do even better things with splat.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 September 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

0bsidion, on 09 September 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

As far as the BSW goes though, you might not be able to do the AC/20 in that arm, but you could do Gauss.

Why would you mount a Gauss though? They don't really have that great of DPS for a brawl, at that point I would rather just take an LBX10 and run it like a SHD-2D2 brawler.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Well, it got nerfed indirectly by the rebalance, because SRMs became good again. It just doesn't have the oomph needed to stay in a brawl with the best of them. Don't get me wrong, I have seen pilots do great things with the 4H (for faster cooldown than the 4G) but I have pilots do even better things with splat.

...but the 4G gets a 25% cooldown with an AC20, vs 15% for the 4H?

dervishx5, on 09 September 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Nah, I usually fought among real players on an organized team against real players on organized teams. And there the 4G doesn't usually cut it.

Again, your "real team" obviously doesn't benefit from a "real" hunchback pilot.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

...but the 4G gets a 25% cooldown with an AC20, vs 15% for the 4H?

Oh, they must've changed that then, it's been a while since I've played with said pilots so I'm still stuck in the past. Did it have a faster cooldown at some point in the past? Either way, I may take one out for a spin one night just because I miss AC20 brawling.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 September 2016 - 08:48 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

Oh, they must've changed that then, it's been a while since I've played with said pilots so I'm still stuck in the past. Did it have a faster cooldown at some point in the past? Either way, I may take one out for a spin one night just because I miss AC20 brawling.

been quite some time. The 4H I don't recall ever being quicker, but I'd really have to see if I still have the old Quirk PDFs somewhere, to say for sure.

[0bsidion]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

Why would you mount a Gauss though? They don't really have that great of DPS for a brawl, at that point I would rather just take an LBX10 and run it like a SHD-2D2 brawler.

I wasn't really broaching the idea of the Gauss as good on a brawler build, I was mostly thinking along the lines of "what's the biggest ballistics we could put on that arm?" and the GR is pretty much it. From a brawling perspective you'd probably be better off doing a SRM splat build with all those missile hard points.

6 on the P1? Come on, why wouldn't you? 6 SRM 6s, 72 damage alpha, provided they all hit, or for better spread 6 ASRM4s. Plenty of room for ammo and maybe a MPL for giggles. I don't have the specs of all mechs memorized but I'm fairly sure the P1 is the only medium that'll be able to pull that off IS side.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

0bsidion, on 09 September 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

I don't have the specs of all mechs memorized but I'm fairly sure the P1 is the only medium that'll be able to pull that off IS side.

You are correct, it is the only one, but it is boasting something that isn't really that useful imo. 6 ASRM4 requires too much tonnage and forces you to be slow and 6 SRM6 isn't that much better in that regard, the Jenner gets away with it because of its speed. It will be better than the Kintaro sure but I don't expect it to be better than the Griffin.

[0bsidion]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

You are correct, it is the only one, but it is boasting something that isn't really that useful imo. 6 ASRM4 requires too much tonnage and forces you to be slow and 6 SRM6 isn't that much better in that regard, the Jenner gets away with it because of its speed. It will be better than the Kintaro sure but I don't expect it to be better than the Griffin.

I don't really do brawler builds so what would you say an ideal speed would be? And I guess I'd also need to know if you're talking STD or XL. Because with an XL I can get 6 ASRM4s, 6 tons of ammo, an XL 300, and 12 DHS.

With a STD, you might be increasing your survivability but yeah, you're going to have to make a big sacrifice in speed or firepower to the point it's not really worth it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

0bsidion, on 09 September 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

Because with an XL I can get 6 ASRM4s, 6 tons of ammo, an XL 300, and 12 DHS.

You are gonna want more than 12 DHS with 6 ASRM4s, otherwise the speed is fine.

[Koniving]

Tibbnak, on 08 September 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

Bushwhacker: A 55 ton medium mech with a better profile than the nova, squat and wide, with almost all the guns and missile pods on level with the cockpit. This made it ideal for ambushing and sniping on terrain, thus the name "bushwhacker".

http://www.sarna.net.../Bushwacker.jpg



Meanwhile, at PGI: "Let's take the linebacker, the mad dog, and the vulture and mr potatoman them together!" :pgi:

https://static.mwome...wacker-hero.png

pgi had an opportunity to make buckets of money making the literal canonical hill humper for IS at a perfect 55 ton marker, and I guess based the design off the cartoon instead? Whee.

Sounds like the IS version of the Ebon Jaguar.


_______

Solis Obscuri, on 08 September 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

Looks like the real deal from FASA.





So is the problem the PGI didn't redesign it to min/max hillhumping meta?

Actually I believe the real problem is scaling.





I have about 19 more images of BT scale for 55, 50, etc. Ton mechs of squat designs and under armor designs (like Shadow hawk before the 3rd and 5th gen like 5M. Will post them when home and on PC. Android tablets are terrible.)

Wolverine and tank.


A Timber Wolf.

Kit Fox; note this one was 'given' added torso twist, a feature not native for them.

Nova


Source material used:

Note: Common trends...
If mech has Ferro... added volume compared to standard armor
If a mech has endo... very noticeable added volume compared to standard structure.
If a mech has Ferro and Endo... lots of added volume.
Drawback for weight saving benefits (aside from financial, difficulty obtaining, time consumption, R&R)... Your *** gets bigger and easier to shoot!
(Side note: The heights go to the tallest point of the mech; regardless of where or what.)

Scorpion (55 tons)


Goliath 85 tonmech.
Note the size of the cockpit glass and that this is a single seater.

The same Goliath 85 ton assault quad mech as rendered by that artist.


45 ton Hatchetman and 55 ton Griffin.



I had a lot more on the tablet... but this should suffice.

My point being is that mechs aren't huge. The Executioner listed in that Omnimech scale is the largest mech to exist until well after 3060 at 14.4 meters.

MWO's original Dragon size, a tank, a Dragon scaled approximately close to a mentioned size in a novel.


Various scale stuff, Leopard Dropship and larger Catapult are original MWO scales.


Note: Even the stilted (extra long leg) version of the Catapult was still below 11 meters tall, MWO's original height clocks in at over 16 meters. The artist, Alex, drew Catapult concept art to be close to Battletech scale, and PGI put these footnotes, clearly determined to make the game's first heavy be a gigantic monster.

(Note part of the actual Catapult's lack of height was lack of torso twist or pelvis).
From MWO's rescales... Current MWO Catapult (small as it may appear) is still nearly 14 meters (high 13s) tall.



So in the end... if there's a problem with the Bushwhacker, it is that we know it will never be as small as it is supposed to be. Why the hell do you think its weapons have such large and weird shapes and jut out of the body? Because it is too damn small to hold its own big guns inside itself!

Edited by Koniving, 09 September 2016 - 03:07 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 09 September 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

Sounds like the IS version of the Ebon Jaguar.


_______

Actually I believe the real problem is scaling.





I have about 19 more images of BT scale for 55, 50, etc. Ton mechs of squat designs and under armor designs (like Shadow hawk before the 3rd and 5th gen like 5M. Will post them when home and on PC. Android tablets are terrible.

I'm hoping the middle Shadowhawk on the bottom picture is an example of "how tall it should be"?

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'm hoping the middle Shadowhawk on the bottom picture is an example of "how tall it should be"?

Actually that's the scale of the 2nd gen shadow Hawks (2D, 2D2, etc... the piss poor armor ones before the rebuilds that made them bigger).
Actually was gonna post 3d models with an elemental armor for comparison of Kit Fox, Nova and several other mechs for height comparison with the FASA image to show how small the Bushwhacker is.
Especially if as described.... it has the profile (or a better profile) than a Nova. The images I had would put the Nova and the Bushwhacker at around the same height... which is actually kinda shorter but longer than the Shadow hawk depicted (supposedly 9.63 meters for Shadowhawk shown).

Edited by Koniving, 09 September 2016 - 02:13 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

Oh, they must've changed that then, it's been a while since I've played with said pilots so I'm still stuck in the past. Did it have a faster cooldown at some point in the past? Either way, I may take one out for a spin one night just because I miss AC20 brawling.

Pretty sure the 4G has always had a better AC20-specific cooldown than the 4H, but not for other ACs. It used to be 25% AC20 + 10% General Ballistic, then it got nerfed to 10% AC20, 15% General Ballistic... But has maintained the title of best Hunchie for AC20s consistently.

I dont even care if the BSW can mount an AC20 or not in MWO, despite canon references citing it fully capable of doing so, because you just know two of those variants are going to have pleasant AC10 and LB-10X quirks which are far more suitable to 50-55 tonners, combined with a Marauder-esque profile that denotes tankability, all while not being hardpoint starved like the Cent.