247 replies to this topic

[SlyJJ]

IS AC's over clan UACs? You're not serious are you? Oh yes, a clan AC20 with a devestating range of 270 meters compared to a clan UAC20 with a range of 360 that can fire twice as fast. Thats ignoring one fact. IS PPCs have better heat, but also a minimum range, which is a problem when you've got slow IS mechs. You're rolling the dice with that one. ER PPCs have no minimum range, and heat is kinda a moot point when you're already 1000m away sniping.

IS LL burn time? Again you've got a weapon that reaches out hundreds of meters further than IS ones, occupies less crits, and does more damage. A clan medium laser does what IS LL's do at the cost of a single ton. An extra half second burn time is negligible. C-LRMs also have no minimum range, and everyone uses LRM-5 and 10 to aid in the "clumping" as you put it.

In short, you're arguing that because our weapons burn for half second longer, they're equal to or better than yours which weigh less, occupy fewer crits, do more damage, have greater range, and have no minimum range..... This is what I mean by being willfully ignorant

Edited by SlyJJ, 18 September 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[RestosIII]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

IS AC's over clan UACs? You're not serious are you? Oh yes, a clan AC20 with a devestating range of 270 meters compared to a clan UAC20 with a range of 360 that can fire twice as fast. Thats ignoring one fact. IS PPCs have better heat, but also a minimum range, which is a problem when you've got slow IS mechs. You're rolling the dice with that one. ER PPCs have no minimum range, and heat is kinda a moot point when you're already 1000m away sniping.

IS LL burn time? Again you've got a weapon that reaches out hundreds of meters further than IS ones, occupies less crits, and does more damage. A clan medium laser does what IS LL's do at the cost of a single ton. An extra half second burn time is negligible. C-LRMs also have no minimum range, and everyone uses LRM-5 and 10 to aid in the "clumping" as you put it.

In short, you're arguing that because our weapons burn for half second longer, they're equal to or better than yours which weigh less, occupy fewer crits, do more damage, have greater range, and have no minimum range..... right...

Burst-fire and burn time make it MUCH easier for the target that's getting hit (if he's not 100% incompotent) to spread that damage around. A C-UAC/20 may pump out 40 damage, but that's spread between all the shells that go flying out. The more shells there are, the higher chance the person you're shooting will just turn and spread it across their mech OR that hitreg/your own aim will cause shells to miss. IS LRMs inherently work better against AMS due to how they're all clumped up even when chainfired. If you fire all your LRMs at once as a clan pilot, their AMS will still have a longer period of time it gets to shoot at those LRMs.

Unrelated to all that though, you get to change your armor type, structure type, and engine sizes. And you don't have locked JJs in any of your mechs. Omnimech superiority, I guess. /s

Almost forgot. As others have requested, please show us your drop deck(s).

Edited by RestosIII, 18 September 2016 - 12:45 PM.

[Mcgral18]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

IS AC's over clan UACs? You're not serious are you? Oh yes, a clan AC20 with a devestating range of 270 meters compared to a clan UAC20 with a range of 360 that can fire twice as fast.

And yet, one is taken more often than the other


Your inexperience is deafening, and your refusal to answer what your likely Terribad dropdeck isn't helping either.



Sorry, but you've got to git gud before people take your wild claims seriously

[SlyJJ]

My main drop deck consists of 3 Warhammers and a spider. I dont see how that relevant. Whether I have a "good" deck or a "bad" one really doesnt affect what we're talking about. A red herring in the convesaton, if you will.

[VorpalAnvil]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

I've been playing for quite some time. Yes I've got a competitive deck for CW, yes Im in a unit, and yes to VOIP. All those aside, yes a co-ordinated group will always beat out another group of pugs, theres absolutely no denying that.

In regards to winning, I attribute that to the event thats going on atm. I hope they do it again because hot damn I've actually been able to win a few matches as well.

Its decidedly ironic all the clanners that are willfully ignorant of the advantage they've got. Thats why so many units play as IS... right?

Get serious people, and save your "git good" trolling for newbs, because you havent any idea what tier I am or what match scores I post. You're playing as clan which needless to say is playing MWO on "easy" mode. Theres a reason why I can double my match scores in a clan mech compared to IS.

Nevermind skill or lack of balance in the game (the willfully ignorant will always be that) but stay on the topic of options. There just arent any for IS.

So, I went ahead and checked your leaderboard stats for CW. Pretty bad I must say. You claim that you do quite well in clan tech but your stats for the pug queue were equally bad. Then I noticed your unit tag. At the beginning of the event I droped with a 10 man of LoDD along with another player solo dropping. LoDD was so unforgivably terrible that the 10 man unit dropping together on comms was relying on myself and the other pug to call the match for them. The conclusion is obvious; you and your unit are bad, pls git gud.

[Ollie Rifleman Brown]

make CW = 3025

problem solved.

ty

[Mcgral18]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

My main drop deck consists of 3 Warhammers and a spider. I dont see how that relevant. Whether I have a "good" deck or a "bad" one really doesnt affect what we're talking about. A red herring in the convesaton, if you will.

No, that's false


If you take Terribad robots, then complain that your opposition, who are not taking Terribad robots, are OP, that's a direct cause


Warhammers are not bad, Spiders aren't great. Now, the loadout.
We can then rule out your Robots being Terribad.

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 September 2016 - 12:58 PM.

[SlyJJ]

A little ironic you're calling me inexperienced and say "one weapon is taken more over the other."

IS only has UAC5s and not 20's. Clan AC's all fire multiples, so Clans ACs are just placeholders.

There are no "wild claims" on my behalf, just willfully ignorant people such as yourselves that refuse to address the topic. Instead you're going the route of "argument ad hominem" which is attacking the arguer rather than the argument. How good I or my choice of drop deck may be, or how good you or your choice of drop deck may be, is completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So any other personal attacks is really not necessary and not going to help you be parts of the "cool" crowd. Address the topic if you please. You could also add what changes you'd like to see with clan mechs as well.... or you can keep trying to impress your peers with personal attacks.....

[Dago Red]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

I've been playing for quite some time. Yes I've got a competitive deck for CW, yes Im in a unit, and yes to VOIP. All those aside, yes a co-ordinated group will always beat out another group of pugs, theres absolutely no denying that.

In regards to winning, I attribute that to the event thats going on atm. I hope they do it again because hot damn I've actually been able to win a few matches as well.

Its decidedly ironic all the clanners that are willfully ignorant of the advantage they've got. Thats why so many units play as IS... right?

Get serious people, and save your "git good" trolling for newbs, because you havent any idea what tier I am or what match scores I post. You're playing as clan which needless to say is playing MWO on "easy" mode. Theres a reason why I can double my match scores in a clan mech compared to IS.

Nevermind skill or lack of balance in the game (the willfully ignorant will always be that) but stay on the topic of options. There just arent any for IS.

As a long standing IS loyalist I'm going to echo the choir of git gud's.


And if I could mix tech freely about the only clan gear I'd be inclined to take over what I have now are the XL engine's, 15 damage ER PPC's, ER meds for a few setups and the wider array of LBX's. Also lighter burst fire AC 10's for dakkaing on hard point deprived mechs.

And except for maybe the XL's none of that's worth sweating the difference on.

Edited by Dago Red, 19 September 2016 - 01:16 AM.

[RestosIII]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

A little ironic you're calling me inexperienced and say "one weapon is taken more over the other."

IS only has UAC5s and not 20's. Clan AC's all fire multiples, so Clans ACs are just placeholders.

There are no "wild claims" on my behalf, just willfully ignorant people such as yourselves that refuse to address the topic. Instead you're going the route of "argument ad hominem" which is attacking the arguer rather than the argument. How good I or my choice of drop deck may be, or how good you or your choice of drop deck may be, is completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So any other personal attacks is really not necessary and not going to help you be parts of the "cool" crowd. Address the topic if you please. You could also add what changes you'd like to see with clan mechs as well.... or you can keep trying to impress your peers with personal attacks.....

You're the one that is avoiding the argument. Every proper argument against you has been responded to as "trollish" or "willfully ignorant" instead of with proper responses. I feel like I'm talking with someone that took the BLOOD WOLF argument classes.

[VorpalAnvil]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

. How good I or my choice of drop deck may be, or how good you or your choice of drop deck may be, is completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

This game is won and lost in the mechlab. Learning to build mechs is one of the most important skills in learning how to play this game effectively. That you are stating that this doesn't matter by itself shows your level of ignorance. You claim IS is outclassed, but several here including myself seem to have no problem doing well with IS tech. I think you are the one who cannot stay on topic and you are currently just avoiding the issue. To borrow a phrase form another corner of the internet regarding your drop deck, " **** or GTFO".

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 18 September 2016 - 01:12 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

IS AC's over clan UACs? You're not serious are you? Oh yes, a clan AC20 with a devestating range of 270 meters compared to a clan UAC20 with a range of 360 that can fire twice as fast. Thats ignoring one fact. IS PPCs have better heat, but also a minimum range, which is a problem when you've got slow IS mechs. You're rolling the dice with that one. ER PPCs have no minimum range, and heat is kinda a moot point when you're already 1000m away sniping.

IS LL burn time? Again you've got a weapon that reaches out hundreds of meters further than IS ones, occupies less crits, and does more damage. A clan medium laser does what IS LL's do at the cost of a single ton. An extra half second burn time is negligible. C-LRMs also have no minimum range, and everyone uses LRM-5 and 10 to aid in the "clumping" as you put it.

In short, you're arguing that because our weapons burn for half second longer, they're equal to or better than yours which weigh less, occupy fewer crits, do more damage, have greater range, and have no minimum range..... This is what I mean by being willfully ignorant

Mate you UAC20 isnot that good from what you think UAC10/5 is far more superior when compare to it, but pinpoint IS ACs can do what Burst fire UAC and better

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

A little ironic you're calling me inexperienced and say "one weapon is taken more over the other."

IS only has UAC5s and not 20's. Clan AC's all fire multiples, so Clans ACs are just placeholders.

There are no "wild claims" on my behalf, just willfully ignorant people such as yourselves that refuse to address the topic. Instead you're going the route of "argument ad hominem" which is attacking the arguer rather than the argument. How good I or my choice of drop deck may be, or how good you or your choice of drop deck may be, is completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So any other personal attacks is really not necessary and not going to help you be parts of the "cool" crowd. Address the topic if you please. You could also add what changes you'd like to see with clan mechs as well.... or you can keep trying to impress your peers with personal attacks.....

Ok some CERLL is useless in the live servers because it literally a lightsaber you can spread the damage like butter for days, CUAC20 is meh brawling weapon since it fire 4 volleys that can also spread easily and have terrible heat, CUAC10/5 is much more superior compared to CUAC20 also pinpoint ballistics is much more superior than burst fire and most people on the forms would agree, I'm getting this creeping feeling that you depise the minsucle advantages that the clans have to the point that you willing to see that IS only have thoses advantages and clan get jack but I digress

[SlyJJ]

When I say willfully ignornant I mean that- theres no way one could consider IS tech superior to clan tech. You attempt to make the "git good" argument and go out on tangents that are really irrelevant.

The fact that some of you can be successful with both techs doesnt prove one over the other- a skilled player will probably do such a thing. We're talking about weapons and options, and clan has more of them. Maybe more or less than what some may argue, but they're there.... there IS a reason the competitive teams all go clan.

Edited by SlyJJ, 18 September 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[Mcgral18]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

A little ironic you're calling me inexperienced and say "one weapon is taken more over the other."

IS only has UAC5s and not 20's. Clan AC's all fire multiples, so Clans ACs are just placeholders.

There are no "wild claims" on my behalf, just willfully ignorant people such as yourselves that refuse to address the topic. Instead you're going the route of "argument ad hominem" which is attacking the arguer rather than the argument. How good I or my choice of drop deck may be, or how good you or your choice of drop deck may be, is completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So any other personal attacks is really not necessary and not going to help you be parts of the "cool" crowd. Address the topic if you please. You could also add what changes you'd like to see with clan mechs as well.... or you can keep trying to impress your peers with personal attacks.....

And I'd take a isAC20 VS a cUAC20
It will destroy an item on a Crit
It will hurt what it hits
It will punch through armor


The UAC20 is Pew Pew Pew Pew of 5 damage, which may or may not hit, with a 4+5s cycle if RNGeesus hates you (at 17%)
Both travel at the same speed, and the UAC20 has the marginally worse cycle due to +0.33s of the burst.



You refuse to answer questions which are pertinent to your little issue.
Are your robots Terribad? Your leaderboard stats put you at Mediocre, to below mediocre, which can almost always be attributed to your robots.



Here I am, attacking the issues at hand, while you just want to attack me.

[Timber Ghost]

I am part of a merc unit, and we switch back and forth often. While I do enjoy clan mechs, and weapons more, it simply comes down to tactics. Last night, my unit with 6 to 10 people picked off 6 wins in a row against clans. We are not a great unit. Decent, yes, but not great. We do not have mandatory drop decks, or coordinated builds. Each player brings what he wants, and we adjust from there.

You have to look at the strong points of each side, and play to your advantages. Make them play the game how you want it played. If you are trying to play against clan mechs at longer ranges, then you will probly lose before the match even starts. If you are running 3 warhammers, and a spider, then yes, it is going to get very frustrating for you. If you can not handle the advantages that clan mechs do have, then you are not playing to the advantages of IS mechs.

[Mcgral18]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

When I say willfully ignornant I mean that- theres no way one could consider IS tech superior to clan tech

And you'd be wrong, again

Quote

You're still not addressing the discussion....

Which you're refusing to respond to

[RestosIII]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

When I say willfully ignornant I mean that- theres no way one could consider IS tech superior to clan tech

Mind actually listening to the pros and cons of IS vs Clan tech instead of saying we're all just willfully ignorant and all against you? Thanks.

[DeadEye COTP]

Clan is better in some areas and IS is better in others. The only thing that truly hurts IS in evenly matched skill scenarios is that clans can boat a ton of weapons while still remaining agile and not worrying about a torso loss.

That being said, people are right about your drop deck and the skill you can bring to the field. I don't play CW much any more , but I did a few games for the event.

Running 2 Thunderwubs (1 LP / 1 MP boat) and a black knight with 3LP and the rest filled out with mediums, I was pulling 2500 dmg even on losses. Some games I was pulling 3500 damage while the majority of the team was in the mid thousands.

The ability for your team to coordinate, set up firing lines, and not get stuck in choke points while being decently skilled with aiming will decide the battle in the end. Unless you're playing against a top tier unit, which is very rare I find, it comes down to how well the individual players perform and has little to do with being IS or Clan.

Edited by DeadEye COTP, 18 September 2016 - 01:30 PM.

[InspectorG]

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

My main drop deck consists of 3 Warhammers and a spider. I dont see how that relevant. Whether I have a "good" deck or a "bad" one really doesnt affect what we're talking about. A red herring in the convesaton, if you will.

False.
Different decks for different tactics. On different maps.

Learn up on CW/Group drops a bit more.

And, yes, IS has more powerful guns than Clans in some regards. IS dakka...PLUS QUIRKS is generally quite a bit superior than Clan. Kodiak gets a pass because, well, 50tons for guns is its own power.

IS gets better LL, Better SRM+quirks, better LRMs(lol), and generally better hardpoint location.

Seriously, take an 'OP' Clan Warhawk, Summoner, Hoverlander, Executioner, Shadcat, Gargles, MIst Lynx and make a deck.

Clans just recently got nice up high hardpoints and PGI finally learned(night gyr) not to put gorilla arms on clanmechs.

Clans OP is so...2014.

RestosIII, on 18 September 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

Mind actually listening to the pros and cons of IS vs Clan tech instead of saying we're all just willfully ignorant and all against you? Thanks.

We WILL NOT have reason in this forum!! Thank you!

[Mole]

Oh, are we having another one of these stupid "CLANS OP PLZ NERF!!!!" threads again? Only thing I'd like to see changed about clan tech is I'd like to see streak boats go away and... that's about it. I play both clan tech and IS tech heavily and quite frankly I don't feel that one side has a truly significant advantage over the other.