247 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Interesting points across the board, but Im going to continue with my hand...

I'll borrow from Jaimes post since many agreed on that, copy paste doesntwork, so bear with me:

ok dont mean to see rash, but your Quote/Media/CopyPasta all dont work,
perhaps its time for a new Computer Mate,

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

How do you figure IS had better srms? Anextra 0.9 damage per volley? Thats pretty negligible, especially considering that clan srms weigh half as much and only occupy a single crit. Not to mention streak options decimate lights quite easily.

its more than Just Damage, its bonus Damage +reduced Spread, to the point Artemus isnt needed,
a IS-SRM6(3Tons) is equivalent to a C-SRM6+A(2.5Tons) but the IS-SRM still do more damage,

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Im also inclined to agree with Dovis Khan in regards to the lrms. Significantly less weight and crits makes a BIG difference

they do make a difference now think about this, when an IS-LRM20 hits you it hits you like a LBX20,
all the Missiles Hit in a Volley and more are likely to hit you even if your moving, as they Stay in Formation,
C-LRMS are stream fire, move and most are likely to hit your Legs more than your Torso,
this makes them weaker than IS-LRMs, also AMS Eat C-LRMs for Dinner,

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Large Lasers in favor of IS? I see how you might think this, but they are not. Clans have better lasers in every way shape and form. Better range, better damage, fewer crits, lesser weight, and even lesser heat. You look at the heat value attached to the laser and assume its a disadvantage, but clan lasers do more damage. When you crunch the numbers, they do more damage per second and generate less heat per damage done. In all facets, clan lasers make IS lasers second rate. Combine that with much better cooling options and Clan annihilates IS with lasers. Not done yet, their lighter weight an fewer crit spots allows clanners to put more heat sinks, which themselves only occupy 2 crits, and the advantage is magnified extraordinarly more so. The only possible edge IS may have is comparison of Large pulse where its a .67 duration. Pinpoint isnt necessary when you overwhelm you opponents with damage.

lets look at this for a second Clan Large Lasers/PPCs only Weigh 1less Crit/Ton(LPL just 1Less Ton),
also IS Lasers are Cooler, and have much Less Duration, this balanced out Clans Hotter more Damage,

Range? maybe you should stop Comparing ER(Extended Range) Lasers with normal ones,
when IS gets their ER-ML/SL, then they will have Clan Ranges, thats just how it is,
yes Clan has more Damage but does that Matter if IS can Fire more Often?

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

On the topic of pinpoint, I hear people talk about twisting and rolling the damage. Funny I do that. So do most others. I get destroyed in CW because I get overwhelmed by so much firepower. Tell the 4 UAC10 kodiak that its at a disadvantage because its not pinpoint with its 80 point double tap at 550 meters.

Even comparing the rest of the autocannons, clan absolutely overwhelms IS in all aspects They weigh less, have greater range, and ALL have the UAC option!

So lets look at this as objectively as possible...

most Clan ACs are 1-2Tons Lighter, and smaller, but they are also Stream Fire,
the Tonnage and Crits they save by lighter weapons, is lost with the ammo you waste missing shots,
for an IS-AC single shot easy to Aim and Fire, and make 1 hit, vs firing and trying to hit with 3-4 shells,
-
and if you think you will always hit with all the rounds you fire out of your C-UAC,
if you think that your C-UAC will never Jam when you Try to Double Tap, you need to play Clan more,
how much ammo wasted is worth the Crits and Tonnage saved by lighter Weapons?

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

A clan mech can outfit with any number of loadouts, with plenty of extra tonnage and crits left over for auxillary weapons, equipment, and heatsinks. He moves faster than comparable IS mechs, boasts more firepower at a greater range, with better heat management, and a greater arsenal of weapons. These are factual statements....

with most maps you can easily close to 200-400m so Clan Extra range doesnt matter as much as you think it will,
and remember IS also have Long Range weapons, ERPPCs, ERLLs, the latter of which has less heat,
IS can sustan fire for longer where clan has to hide to cool, this is how these sides play,

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Enter the IS pilot, who of course is the opposite of the above. But hes got pulse lasers and single shot AC's which are great because of "pinpoint." Problem is hes slow as hell and does half the damage that the clanner did at half a range. But hes got an ace in the hole! Quirks! Yes he has an extra 10 points of armor on his torsos and a 5% cooldown on his autocannon..... but this doesnt really matter because the extra damage the clanner weapons do quickly overwhelm any quirks that mech may have had, and they do so at a greater range, which the IS mech has an uphill battle to contend with because his mechs are godawful slow. And any armor quirks the IS mech had is destroyed in a fraction of a second because of overwhelming range, speed, manueverability, damage, weight, heat management, crit spots available...

IS mechs Quirks matter much more than you give them Credit for,
118 IS mechs have Energy heat Generation Quirks, most have over 5%, many have 10-15%,
this on top of having already Cool Lasers mean they are nearly heat Nutral, and can out last Clan,
most Clan Mechs only have 1-2 Good Alphas before needing to Cool for abit,
an IS mech wont need to and can clean up as the Clan Mech Tries to Run,

SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

We' comparing two boxers here- a heavyweight with a flyweight. You guys seem to think the flyweight has the advantage because hes got a pinpoint jab.... when the heavyweight just ignores that and runs him over....

this is more we are Comparing 2 Boxers one is Swift and Agile and can give out Fast Hits,
the other is Stocky and will defend until his opponent weakens and needs to Rest before letting them have it,


your a member since Jan of this year,
i can tell you when Clan first came out they where very very Strong,
but since then they have been Gradually rained in to a good place of Balance,
Please Take a Page from some of us Vets, who lived threw the Clan Invasion,
Clan isnt as Powerful as they appear to be on Paper,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 21 September 2016 - 07:14 PM.

[DovisKhan]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 21 September 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

note i am shortening some of this to take up less space



- clan lrms get absolutely destroyed by even 1 ams, 2-3 ams nullifies essentially all clan lrms no matter how many you have or how large the launchers.

- clan lrms stream, which means if your near cover of any kind only the first few even get to hit with 90% of the salvo being wasted entirely especially if your running radar dep, which can have an absolute 0% effect against an IS salvo that lands all at once. this is the primary reason good pilots say clan lrms are damn near useless.

- very very few clan mechs get missile velocity quirks which is the one that counts the most for lrms, IS LRM mechs often have very nice 10-25% missle velocity quirks which directly buffs IS lrms

- clan lrms have a shallower arc and are more easily mitigated by cover while IS lrms tend to fly higher then come in at a sharper angle making cover less effective.

- it is universally held in higher realms of play that IS lrms are the superior choice because of these factors, clan lrms are better for "spamming" a target with a constant stream but in the end are far less effective against a prepared pilot and downright useless in competitive play.

- clan lrms only really get faster LOS lockon from artemis while IS lrms get that and tighter grouping.

- again other then their weight and size IS lrms are better then clan LRMS in every way



- IS SRMS get much tighter grouping to the point that clan SRMS with Art still are only barely on par with IS SRMS with no Art, also IS srms do more damage per launcher. IE IS SRMS let you land that greater damage where you want it, clan SRMS are very "splatty" making it hard to get the damage where you want it if your not literally hugging the enemy mech.



- most of the points you made are just plain wrong, IS lasers do more damage per tick, have shorter duration, better heat/damage, the clan ERML wins only the damage/ton benchmark in every other way it is inferior to the IS LL and ML. the only things IS lasers that are worse (on paper) are the weight/size/range but literally everything else about them is superior to clan lasers.

- any IS mech with -10%+ energy duration quirks are freaking insane being able to deal their whole burn to the enemies CT in the time it takes a clan mech to get half of his laser burn off (who has to face tank the IS mechs lasers to the dome to get his whole burn off). straight up they are better for trading. all that extra damage and range is pointless if you cant even keep the beam on target before hes done and gone or twisting away those clan long burns.

- again most IS mechs are quirked out the #$# for weapons and when you take quirks into account it leans very heavily in favor of the IS at 300-450m. especially once you factor in the 3 large laser IS ghost heat limit vs 2 for clans. my very best "poke" mechs are a battlemaster with 6LL XL375 76.8 kph assault with wicked high mounts, a warhammer with 5LL and another warhammer with 4 ERLL and duration quirks (able to out poke clan ERLL and LPL easily becuase of burn time) the clans litterally have no counter to proper IS laser vomit.



- the kodiak is an outlier because of the sheer amount of autocannons it can equip in high mounts and it wins by bludgeoning the enemy to death not by "cleanly" coring out enemies which is by far the preferred method of competitive teams.

- the quad ultra 5 mauler will generally destroy a kodiak in a head on shoot out, while any evasive maneuvers by the mauler will force a spread of all that damage.

- nothing comes close to the IS AC20 and ultra 5/ac5's in terms of useful damage on target. if you disagree my maulers and black widow would love to prove you wrong in a shoot-out.




- clan weapons are universally hotter requiring more heat sinks overall and mitigating alot of those weight and space savings. case in point a quad LPL highlander or kodiak is often done best with NO endo or ferro simply because you need those crits for more DHS

- clan LRMS/SRMS/AC's require a #$#$ ton more ammo then IS counterparts because so much damage is spread out, again mitigating alot of those space/weight savings IE i need at least 4-5+ tons of ultra 20 ammo per gun compared to the 3 tons per gun average that most IS ac's need. right away that 1 ton 1 slot advantage is lost.

- at the end of the day because of quirks and other factors IS actually has BETTER WEAPONS, the only real advantage clans have is well.... omnimechs, gauss and better overall speed.

- IS mechs are quirked like crazy for offense and defense, tankier with a std then any clan mech, and pound for pound have better engines overall since most IS mechs have at least a 25%+ turn, accel, decel rate. which means even tho a clan mech may be faster he has to out engine IS mechs by a significant margin to make up that agility gap.

- really its all about that mechlab and knowing the strengths/weaknesses of all the hardware. clans do have some clear cut wins like i said but at the same time the IS has by far the most "best mechs in class".

- case in point, i can bring stalkers, atlas's, cyclops, battlemasters, maulers and banshees to CW and all of them are worth the weight in my drop deck. my clan deck? there is exactly 1 clan assault worth taking and its the kodiak.

You basically repeated my "they hit better" in a long paragraph


Yes they do hit better, that's not the point, point is with IS you build specifically to be an LRM carrier, while in a Clan mech LRMs are just a side weapon


As for AMS - 1 AMS nulifies Clan LRM5, bigger launchers get through, though it's still an ammo waste


I tested the Kit Fox with 3 AMS with range module, that's enough to counter most LRMs aside from the biggest, you'd need AMS Overload for that which effectively ~doubles the AMS number you're carrying.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

DovisKhan, on 21 September 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

You basically repeated my "they hit better" in a long paragraph
Yes they do hit better, that's not the point, point is with IS you build specifically to be an LRM carrier, while in a Clan mech LRMs are just a side weapon
As for AMS - 1 AMS nulifies Clan LRM5, bigger launchers get through, though it's still an ammo waste
I tested the Kit Fox with 3 AMS with range module, that's enough to counter most LRMs aside from the biggest, you'd need AMS Overload for that which effectively ~doubles the AMS number you're carrying.

see what you are failing to grasp is that you really cant use lrms as a "side weapon" because even tho the launchers are smaller/lighter you have to pack in so much ammo plus bap+tag that you end up eating into tonnage that would be better spent on heat sinks or more primary weapons. also having more than 2-3 weapon groups is to much work to manage vs the reward.

really you should be arguing the reverse, that clan lrm boats have extra pod space and tonnage for better secondary weapons (which is mostly true). i own over 40 clan mechs and none of them use lrms as a secondary weapon, just like IS its all or nothing,

but keep telling yourself that clans have magical mechs that can carry everything and the kitchen sink. the reality is they simply run far to hot and trying to max out on firepower only works against you because you cant keep fighting.

really with clan mechs im often debating that extra erml or lpl, or more heat sinks and more often than not i go for those extra DHS. literally half of my kodiaks and all of my highlander IIC's have NO endo and NO ferro because you simply cannot keep up fighting without those extra 7 DHS.

also the proof is in the pudding



clan lrms are garbage and even 1 ams takes out more then half of them easily.

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 22 September 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[xWiredx]

Our unit has a harder time winning against IS teams than it does against Clan teams. We run clan most of the time and IS teams bring the heat with metaquirks in a way that clan players do not when we switch to an IS faction.

We've gone 12 pages and nobody has been able to beat this into OPs head. I guess my try is also in vain, but there it is, plain for all to see.

[SlyJJ]

Andi:

In regards to lasers, clan still is better in every way shape and form. Clan lasers run hotter,but that becase they do more damage. When you crunch the numbers, clan laser do more dps and deal more damage per unit of heat than IS.... once again with a greater range, less tonnage, and fewer crits. The only place IS does better in dmg per s is the pulse lasers. but theres a few things to consider about this:
-they have shorter range
-they STILL do less damage
-they STILL have the same cooldown

So clan can still drop more damage. Show me a match where everyone killed is CT'ed with nothing else, and I'll conceed that pinpoint damage is as important as you and other clanners make it out to be. I've been playing alot of cw lately and Im getting killed by overwhelming damage- not pinpoint, not ct shots, not headshots- my mech is being completely obliterated by the excessive damage from clan weapons from a greater range.

Be honest with yourself for a minute. When you break through the lines with your unit, someones calling targets are they not? We dont say "each person target an individual mech" and we dont say "hold on for that pinpoint ct damage" do we? No, we break through and call "target alpha" and everyone unloads on alpha and blasts the hell out of him with every weapon in their arsenal. There is a time and place for pinpoint, but you're making a mountain out of a molehill, and introducing hypothetical one on ones at ranges that completely ignore the fact that one must *get* to that range first.

Every clan weapon does greater damage at a greater distance with less tonnage while occupying less crits, while clanners can fit more heatsinks not just on their mech but on their enormous XL engines as well. These are facts-there is no disputing those. I'll conceed that IS has the better potential for pinpoint, but its laughable to say the ability to do less damage at a lesser range is somehow a perk.

I appreciate that some of your are "vets" but that doesnt add any credence to your arguments- thats a logical fallacy called "argument from authority." I will absolutely listen to your input on strategies and tactics and whatnot, but all I see so far is a strawman argument against IS. How do you explain some of the better merc units getting decimated when they fought IS for breif period of time? Coincidentally NONE of them happen to go IS... all go clan. You would seriously suggest that such units that ban members from dropping individually, bans members for missing "practice" or putting up bad numbers.... but they just happen to want a chalenge so they go clan...... I know why they're clan, you know why they're clan, and they know it to. Its cool, Im not saying you or anyone else isnt good, but come on people this isnt rocket science- clans can drop significantly more damage from greater range. How can people be so willfully obtuse?

[Vxheous]

Total Cooldown is Weapon cycle time + cooldown:

IS large pulse lasers: The total time between firing shots is 3.92 secs (before duration quirks). IS large pulse lasers do 1.6 damage per 0.1 sec. You can fire three of them for 33 damage with a optimal range of 438m (10% range quirk + 10% range module). This costs 21 heat (before heat quirks)

Clan large pulse lasers; The total time between firing shots is 4.37 secs. Clan large pulse lasers do 1.1 damage per 0.1 sec. You can fire two of them for 26 damage with a optimal range of 660m (10% range module). This costs 20 heat.

Please show me the math again about damage difference (tonnage and range yes, pure damage, no)

Edit: Quick comparison of the IS med laser to clan ER med laser. The IS med laser does .55 damage/0.1 sec vs the clan ER med laser at .61 damage/0.1 sec. range of course is different. IS is 328m (10% quirk + 10% module) while Clan is 445m (10% module). Dropoff however has the Clan max tickle range at ~700m to the IS 656m.

I'll list this one more time:

Timberwolf with 2CLPL+4CERML alpha = 54 damage (usually 3 times before overheat) 87kph
Warhammer 6D with 3LPL+4ML alpha = 53 damage (usually 3 times before overheat) 83kph

The Timber in that config will typically want to fight at 500m, while the Warhammer would like to fight at 400m. In FW, most fights happen in 300-500m range, so both those mechs would come out about the same, depending on how skilled you are at protecting an IS XL engine (warhammer shields very well vs Timberwolf while timberwolf snout basically makes it CT-able from most angles)

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 22 September 2016 - 10:03 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

IMO, the vanilla versions of the LPL for both sides are the best example of cross-tech weapons balance in the game, totally worth their cost. Not perfect, but pretty close.

[SlyJJ]

Kerensky:

Clan does 13 damage with duration of 1.12
IS does 11 damage with duration of 0.67
Both have cooldown of 3.25

Total of 4.37 s elapse between volleys of Clan Lrg Pulse
Total of 3.92 s elapse between volleys of IS Lrg Pulse

4.37 seconds to drop 13 dmg- 13 dmg/ 4.37 s = 2.97 dmg/s
3.92 seconds to drop 11 dmg- 11dmg/3.92 s = 2.80 dmg/s

10 heat/ 4.37s =2.28 heat/s
7 heat/ 3.92 =1.79 heat/s

Slighty more heat, but also more damage. IS hardly holds any "edge" in comparison. Once again, I can stack plenty of heatsinks on said clan mech that I cant on an IS mech beause of crits and tonnage

This is also assuming two mechs just sitting at each other blasting away. Both will be moving and brawling. Clanner will have better engine for less weight, allowing more tonnage for heat sinks, and more crits as well.

Sorry man, clans are much better than IS tech- that's been the name of the game since its inception... which brings me to the point of the first post. Since we cant outnumber them or melee them, give IS some tech!

Edited by SlyJJ, 25 September 2016 - 02:13 PM.

[Mcgral18]

SlyJJ, on 25 September 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Kerensky:

Clan does 13 damage with duration of 1.12
IS does 11 damage with duration of 0.67
Both have cooldown of 3.25

Total of 4.37 s elapse between volleys of Clan Lrg Pulse
Total of 3.92 s elapse between volleys of IS Lrg Pulse

4.37 seconds to drop 13 dmg- 13 dmg/ 4.37 s = 2.97 dmg/s
3.92 seconds to drop 11 dmg- 11dmg/3.92 s = 2.80 dmg/s

10 heat/ 4.37s =2.28 heat/s
7 heat/ 3.92 =1.79 heat/s

Slighty more heat, but also more damage. IS hardly holds any "edge" in comparison. Once again, I can stack plenty of heatsinks on said clan mech that I cant on an IS mech beause of crits and tonnage

This is also assuming two mechs just sitting at each other blasting away. Both will be moving and brawling. Clanner will have better engine for less weight, allowing more tonnage for heat sinks, and more crits as well.

Sorry man, clans are much better than IS tech- that's been the name of the game since its inception... which brings me to the point of the first post. Since we cant outnumber them or melee them, give IS some tech!

Again, you've failed to input a VERY important factor, Damage per Tick

The isLPL has a fair advantage in that regard
isLPL=1.642 Dam/tick
cLPL=1.16

30% greater
Which means, you put more damage where it is important, for less heat (at less range)



Again, your bias is overwhelming, and there really isn't even a point in trying to discuss it with you, but there you go.

The LPL family is among the most balanced, in that both are viable weapon systems, in different ways
There's plenty of shite, see Small family, where Clams absolutely dominate, but the LPL argument is poor.

[SlyJJ]

The irony of a clanner talking about how "my bias is overwhelming."

The numbers speak for themselves. Then you present a strawman argument thinking its an ace in the hole or something. Wow, gee, we get more damage per tick! Holy ****! How did the clans ever overcome that obstacle?

Its simple- more damage, greater range, less tonnage, more crits, less engine weight expense, no XL cons, omnipods, UACs......

But IS does more damage per tick..... that about balances the game out

Your bias for clan is absolutely overwhelming. The repetitive nature of this discussion astounds me. Every argument presented is a strawman. The facts are right in front of you when you build a mech...

[RestosIII]

SlyJJ, on 25 September 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

The irony of a clanner talking about how "my bias is overwhelming."

The numbers speak for themselves. Then you present a strawman argument thinking its an ace in the hole or something. Wow, gee, we get more damage per tick! Holy ****! How did the clans ever overcome that obstacle?

Its simple- more damage, greater range, less tonnage, more crits, less engine weight expense, no XL cons, omnipods, UACs......

But IS does more damage per tick..... that about balances the game out

Your bias for clan is absolutely overwhelming. The repetitive nature of this discussion astounds me. Every argument presented is a strawman. The facts are right in front of you when you build a mech...

Yes, the facts are right in front of us. The fact that you won't listen to reason. Calling proper arguments "strawman arguments" is just you not knowing a proper counter to the point they're making. Yes, increased damage per tick IS important. The lower your laser duration, the less spread out the damage is, and you can start twisting faster than a Clan mech because of your durations requiring less face-time. Also, I highly prefer IS autocannons to Clan autocannons purely for the pinpoint damage.

Your bias for IS is absolutely overwhelming. The repetitive nature of this discussion astounds me.

[Mcgral18]

SlyJJ, on 25 September 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

The facts are right in front of you when you build a mech...

You see the numbers, but obviously you don't understand them


You obviously also didn't read my post. Like I said, some Clam weapons are outright superior, no question.
That's because of PGI


If I had it my way, I'd balance them, but PGI's gonna PGI.

[SlyJJ]

Great Restoslll- I'll concede each argument you guys are trying to make, nevermind the fact that I've disproven them....

I make a statement of fact... you challenge my statement as being opinion rather than fact. I demonstrate and prove said fact...and you keep on arguing. I've countered EVERY argument put before me- you guys went on for pages about how IS does more damage, and Ive shown that to be incorrect. The only weapon groups comparable are pulse lasers.

Listen to yourselves. Yes yes... the ability to do even less damage, at even less range, is somehow an advantage....

I've got it. Me and all the other Inner sphere pilots have decided we're tired of having such an advantage. Please, let us stack the odds against IS and give them UACs and clan lasers and the like, because this just isn't fair!

So please help us to help you- lets get PGI to open up UAC's to IS, and clan XL engines, and omnipods..... and everything else I've proven.

Range counts- that's why you take these things into account when you build your mech
Weight counts- that's why you have to balance it properly so you can get the weapons you want
Heat dissipation counts- otherwise you cant fight for a prolonged period of time
Damage COUNTS- its what wins this game
XL engines with no cons COUNTS- lots of speed extra space for heatsinks, and much less weight counts.... to contribute to the above points...

You have a mech that has the market cornered on ALL of those points- you're going to annihilate the opposition. Your straw man is attempting to prove your entire argument by arguing more damage per tick..... while we still have a lesser range, more weight, more crits, and ALL of the other points presented and proven. You act as if pointing out the lack of superiority in 1 statistic out of several hundred somehow disproves my argument or supports yours.

You are still at step one... I have shown, demonstrated, and proven each point. You cannot argue with the (because they're facts) so you attempt to win via strawman. For the sake of argument, I'll give you your strawman- you still have a lot of explaining to do about how pinpoint damage (albeit less, less frequently, and at a lesser range) is of such an overwhelming advantage that it effectively nullifies every other piece of equipment.....

[Y E O N N E]

SlyJJ, on 25 September 2016 - 03:55 PM, said:

Great Restoslll- I'll concede each argument you guys are trying to make, nevermind the fact that I've disproven them....

I make a statement of fact... you challenge my statement as being opinion rather than fact. I demonstrate and prove said fact...and you keep on arguing. I've countered EVERY argument put before me- you guys went on for pages about how IS does more damage, and Ive shown that to be incorrect. The only weapon groups comparable are pulse lasers.

It's not the numbers being challenged, it is your application of them.

Damage per tick, for example, is a more important trait than the total cyclic damage rate. Why? Because there is cover in the game. Realistically, I'm going to fire that LPL, then retreat behind a rock before your cLPL can fire again. Your total DPS is, therefore, cancelled out. Ergo, nobody cares that the total DPS on a CLPL is greater, because it is irrelevant for how the game is played.

[SlyJJ]

Mcgral:

Jeeze it only took 12 pages to hear that! Ok cool so clans are better- as I've said I don't want any nerfing, we just want some tech. If nothing else, it'll give more options to a game that's becoming somewhat stale. Maybe it swings the game to IS advantage.... ok then we have this discussion again and push for some more changes!

[Mcgral18]

Here's an idea, you take your OP CLAMMER HAXORs, and I'll take a junk Spheroid robot


Something tells me, those durations will make a different when I Wub your face off.

[SlyJJ]

Yeonne Greene theres no one that cant play that game.....

You're going to fire your more powerful weapons at a range where they do full damage to my half and by the time I've covered the ground to GET into range, you and your friends have widdled my heavy mech to a light... pinpoint wasn't needed because you're already doing enough damage to overwhelm my mech....from a distance I cant respectfully retaliate.

[Battlemaster56]

Can this thread die, it's already clear this guy is irgonant to the facts infront of him, you can brainwash him and he still won't believe it....

[SlyJJ]

Jesus Christ Battlemaster- learn how to read

[Battlemaster56]

SlyJJ, on 25 September 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Jesus Christ Battlemaster- learn how to read

I do read all the time when I wake up to the til I sleep , but take your own advice.