note i am shortening some of this to take up less space
DovisKhan, on 21 September 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:
Better LRMs?
Not by a long shot, sure they hit better, but that's one mere aspect, but the double weight means you won't be packing much else, while a Clan mech can pack your regular build and just sacrifice a bit of heat management and get an almost free LRM30 as a support weapon
For example a Clan SPL + LRM combo is perfect, there is no better brawling weapon than clan short pulses in terms of weight/heat/damage ratio and you have LRMs for long range poke/support
A fine example would be Catapult vs a Mad Dog
Cat will either go for quad LRM10 with no bacup in A variant or go for C1 and utilize better missile cooldown quirks and use ALRM15 + 4 ML
Both builds don't come even close to MDD with 5 small pulses and 4 LRM with cooldown reduction side torso
The MDD will have more ammo, better heat management, more long/short range and better position
Actually a 35 ton Jenner IIC has better LRM dps than a 65 ton Catapult, that's how much better Clan LRMs are simply because they weigh half and Clans have hardpoints to spare
- clan lrms get absolutely destroyed by even 1 ams, 2-3 ams nullifies essentially all clan lrms no matter how many you have or how large the launchers.
- clan lrms stream, which means if your near cover of any kind only the first few even get to hit with 90% of the salvo being wasted entirely especially if your running radar dep, which can have an absolute 0% effect against an IS salvo that lands all at once. this is the primary reason good pilots say clan lrms are damn near useless.
- very very few clan mechs get missile velocity quirks which is the one that counts the most for lrms, IS LRM mechs often have very nice 10-25% missle velocity quirks which directly buffs IS lrms
- clan lrms have a shallower arc and are more easily mitigated by cover while IS lrms tend to fly higher then come in at a sharper angle making cover less effective.
- it is universally held in higher realms of play that IS lrms are the superior choice because of these factors, clan lrms are better for "spamming" a target with a constant stream but in the end are far less effective against a prepared pilot and downright useless in competitive play.
- clan lrms only really get faster LOS lockon from artemis while IS lrms get that and tighter grouping.
- again other then their weight and size IS lrms are better then clan LRMS in every way
SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:
How do you figure IS had better srms? An extra 0.9 damage per volley? Thats pretty negligible, especially considering that clan srms weigh half as much and only occupy a single crit. Not to mention streak options decimate lights quite easily.
- IS SRMS get much tighter grouping to the point that clan SRMS with Art still are only barely on par with IS SRMS with no Art, also IS srms do more damage per launcher. IE IS SRMS let you land that greater damage where you want it, clan SRMS are very "splatty" making it hard to get the damage where you want it if your not literally hugging the enemy mech.
SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:
Large Lasers in favor of IS? I see how you might think this, but they are not. Clans have better lasers in every way shape and form. Better range, better damage, fewer crits, lesser weight, and even lesser heat. You look at the heat value attached to the laser and assume its a disadvantage, but clan lasers do more damage. When you crunch the numbers, they do more damage per second and generate less heat per damage done. In all facets, clan lasers make IS lasers second rate. Combine that with much better cooling options and Clan annihilates IS with lasers. Not done yet, their lighter weight an fewer crit spots allows clanners to put more heat sinks, which themselves only occupy 2 crits, and the advantage is magnified extraordinarly more so. The only possible edge IS may have is comparison of Large pulse where its a .67 duration. Pinpoint isnt necessary when you overwhelm you opponents with damage.
- most of the points you made are just plain wrong, IS lasers do more damage per tick, have shorter duration, better heat/damage, the clan ERML wins only the damage/ton benchmark in every other way it is inferior to the IS LL and ML. the only things IS lasers that are worse (on paper) are the weight/size/range but literally everything else about them is superior to clan lasers.
- any IS mech with -10%+ energy duration quirks are freaking insane being able to deal their whole burn to the enemies CT in the time it takes a clan mech to get half of his laser burn off (who has to face tank the IS mechs lasers to the dome to get his whole burn off). straight up they are better for trading. all that extra damage and range is pointless if you cant even keep the beam on target before hes done and gone or twisting away those clan long burns.
- again most IS mechs are quirked out the #$# for weapons and when you take quirks into account it leans very heavily in favor of the IS at 300-450m. especially once you factor in the 3 large laser IS ghost heat limit vs 2 for clans. my very best "poke" mechs are a battlemaster with 6LL XL375 76.8 kph assault with wicked high mounts, a warhammer with 5LL and another warhammer with 4 ERLL and duration quirks (able to out poke clan ERLL and LPL easily becuase of burn time) the clans litterally have no counter to proper IS laser vomit.
SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:
On the topic of pinpoint, I hear people talk about twisting and rolling the damage. Funny I do that. So do most others. I get destroyed in CW because I get overwhelmed by so much firepower. Tell the 4 UAC10 kodiak that its at a disadvantage because its not pinpoint with its 80 point double tap at 550 meters.
Even comparing the rest of the autocannons, clan absolutely overwhelms IS in all aspects They weigh less, have greater range, and ALL have the UAC option!
- the kodiak is an outlier because of the sheer amount of autocannons it can equip in high mounts and it wins by bludgeoning the enemy to death not by "cleanly" coring out enemies which is by far the preferred method of competitive teams.
- the quad ultra 5 mauler will generally destroy a kodiak in a head on shoot out, while any evasive maneuvers by the mauler will force a spread of all that damage.
- nothing comes close to the IS AC20 and ultra 5/ac5's in terms of useful damage on target. if you disagree my maulers and black widow would love to prove you wrong in a shoot-out.
SlyJJ, on 21 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:
So lets look at this as objectively as possible...
A clan mech can outfit with any number of loadouts, with plenty of extra tonnage and crits left over for auxillary weapons, equipment, and heatsinks. He moves faster than comparable IS mechs, boasts more firepower at a greater range, with better heat management, and a greater arsenal of weapons. These are factual statements....
Enter the IS pilot, who of course is the opposite of the above. But hes got pulse lasers and single shot AC's which are great because of "pinpoint." Problem is hes slow as hell and does half the damage that the clanner did at half a range. But hes got an ace in the hole! Quirks! Yes he has an extra 10 points of armor on his torsos and a 5% cooldown on his autocannon..... but this doesnt really matter because the extra damage the clanner weapons do quickly overwhelm any quirks that mech may have had, and they do so at a greater range, which the IS mech has an uphill battle to contend with because his mechs are godawful slow. And any armor quirks the IS mech had is destroyed in a fraction of a second because of overwhelming range, speed, manueverability, damage, weight, heat management, crit spots available...
We' comparing two boxers here- a heavyweight with a flyweight. You guys seem to think the flyweight has the advantage because hes got a pinpoint jab.... when the heavyweight just ignores that and runs him over....
- clan weapons are universally hotter requiring more heat sinks overall and mitigating alot of those weight and space savings. case in point a quad LPL highlander or kodiak is often done best with NO endo or ferro simply because you need those crits for more DHS
- clan LRMS/SRMS/AC's require a #$#$ ton more ammo then IS counterparts because so much damage is spread out, again mitigating alot of those space/weight savings IE i need at least 4-5+ tons of ultra 20 ammo per gun compared to the 3 tons per gun average that most IS ac's need. right away that 1 ton 1 slot advantage is lost.
- at the end of the day because of quirks and other factors IS actually has BETTER WEAPONS, the only real advantage clans have is well.... omnimechs, gauss and better overall speed.
- IS mechs are quirked like crazy for offense and defense, tankier with a std then any clan mech, and pound for pound have better engines overall since most IS mechs have at least a 25%+ turn, accel, decel rate. which means even tho a clan mech may be faster he has to out engine IS mechs by a significant margin to make up that agility gap.
- really its all about that mechlab and knowing the strengths/weaknesses of all the hardware. clans do have some clear cut wins like i said but at the same time the IS has by far the most "best mechs in class".
- case in point, i can bring stalkers, atlas's, cyclops, battlemasters, maulers and banshees to CW and all of them are worth the weight in my drop deck. my clan deck? there is exactly 1 clan assault worth taking and its the kodiak.
Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 21 September 2016 - 03:12 PM.
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