247 replies to this topic

[VorpalAnvil]

Racerxintegra2k, on 20 September 2016 - 03:50 AM, said:

What do my stats have to do with anything on this thread? I never claimed to be anything but average to below average for 6 months of play, which i'll assume most of the newer players are.

Because you insist on claiming that you understand the game mechanics at a deep and detailed level but your stats betray you. If I want advice on house building I ask the the professional contractor with years or decades of experience, not the kid building sand castles in his backyard sand box. There's a reason I take advice from the top players in the game who say the techs are very closely balanced and have been for a long time over every random pug who shows up on the forums and claims X or Y is broken or OP because it kicked his ***. Git gud isn't just a joke, it's a factual statement. Become at least a competent player and people will take your claims seriously, keep playing the way you do and be prepared to be laughed at by people who know better. I mean, is there anywhere else in life where you go around telling people vastly more experienced at something than yourself that they don't know what they are doing and should listen to you?

[DrxAbstract]

VorpalAnvil, on 20 September 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Because you insist on claiming that you understand the game mechanics at a deep and detailed level but your stats betray you. If I want advice on house building I ask the the professional contractor with years or decades of experience, not the kid building sand castles in his backyard sand box. There's a reason I take advice from the top players in the game who say the techs are very closely balanced and have been for a long time over every random pug who shows up on the forums and claims X or Y is broken or OP because it kicked his ***. Git gud isn't just a joke, it's a factual statement. Become at least a competent player and people will take your claims seriously, keep playing the way you do and be prepared to be laughed at by people who know better. I mean, is there anywhere else in life where you go around telling people vastly more experienced at something than yourself that they don't know what they are doing and should listen to you?

You know the Titanic was designed, built and manned by professionals, right? RIGHT?! ...

And actually, I can name a few instances where I've told 'experienced professionals' they were wrong and should listen to me... Because they were. Happened all the time at my job - I'd been doing it for about 5-6 months, making changes to programs and setups that had been used for years to run faster, go easier on the machinery and operators, and break less tools, usually all at the same time... Had two separate supervisors plus the Lead Inspector and Senior Setup Technician approve every single alteration... Only to come in the following day, see my changes reverted and get reprimanded by the other shift supervisor because "There's no way you could be better at this than someone who's been doing it for 3 years..." Happened more than once, so I didnt bother any more.

Not all 'professionals' should be listened to on the sole assumption they know what they're talking about... But by all means do listen to them at first, just dont always take their word for it - Fact check, talk to others in the field, etc.

[Mole]

VorpalAnvil, on 20 September 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

I mean, is there anywhere else in life where you go around telling people vastly more experienced at something than yourself that they don't know what they are doing and should listen to you?

Happens to anyone in leadership positions in politics etc. every day since the beginning of days in every civilization.

[VorpalAnvil]

DrxAbstract, on 20 September 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

You know the Titanic was designed, built and manned by professionals, right? RIGHT?! ...

And actually, I can name a few instances where I've told 'experienced professionals' they were wrong and should listen to me... Because they were. Happened all the time at my job - I'd been doing it for about 5-6 months, making changes to programs and setups that had been used for years to run faster, go easier on the machinery and operators, and break less tools, usually all at the same time... Had two separate supervisors plus the Lead Inspector and Senior Setup Technician approve every single alteration... Only to come in the following day, see my changes reverted and get reprimanded by the other shift supervisor because "There's no way you could be better at this than someone who's been doing it for 3 years..." Happened more than once, so I didnt bother any more.

Not all 'professionals' should be listened to on the sole assumption they know what they're talking about... But by all means do listen to them at first, just dont always take their word for it - Fact check, talk to others in the field, etc.

The example you are giving could not be any poorer. You were being countermanded by people not as objectively good at the job as you. The people in this thread claiming clans are OP are objectively (based upon their own stats freely available to everyone here ) bad or mediocre at MWO and the people who repudiate their claims are objectively far better at the game ( based once again upon the same stat block ). But hooray for you! You found a tiny and not relevant example of the more experienced person being in the wrong. I've heard this called the "I know a tall Chinese guy" argument. It's a shame really that you are more interested in winning the argument than in being factually correct. Critical thinking OP.

[Mister Popo]

VorpalAnvil, on 20 September 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Because you insist on claiming that you understand the game mechanics at a deep and detailed level but your stats betray you. If I want advice on house building I ask the the professional contractor with years or decades of experience, not the kid building sand castles in his backyard sand box. There's a reason I take advice from the top players in the game who say the techs are very closely balanced and have been for a long time over every random pug who shows up on the forums and claims X or Y is broken or OP because it kicked his ***. Git gud isn't just a joke, it's a factual statement. Become at least a competent player and people will take your claims seriously, keep playing the way you do and be prepared to be laughed at by people who know better. I mean, is there anywhere else in life where you go around telling people vastly more experienced at something than yourself that they don't know what they are doing and should listen to you?

Make your tier public.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

VorpalAnvil, on 20 September 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Because you insist on claiming that you understand the game mechanics at a deep and detailed level but your stats betray you. If I want advice on house building I ask the the professional contractor with years or decades of experience, not the kid building sand castles in his backyard sand box. There's a reason I take advice from the top players in the game who say the techs are very closely balanced and have been for a long time over every random pug who shows up on the forums and claims X or Y is broken or OP because it kicked his ***. Git gud isn't just a joke, it's a factual statement. Become at least a competent player and people will take your claims seriously, keep playing the way you do and be prepared to be laughed at by people who know better. I mean, is there anywhere else in life where you go around telling people vastly more experienced at something than yourself that they don't know what they are doing and should listen to you?

The soundness of an argument is validated by the argument itself. Not by any properties of the person presenting it.

[Mister Popo]

Teer5, on 20 September 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

The soundness of an argument is validated by the argument itself. Not by any properties of the person presenting it.

He's not going by logic. He's going by stats. Pretty flawed way of gauging a player, but oh well.

[Michael Kail]

RestosIII, on 18 September 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

Apparently you've never used Clan autocannons. They don't fire 4 shots that do 20 damage each. They fire 4 shots that do 5 damage each. If a single pellet misses, you just did 15 damage, 2 pellets miss, you would have been better off with an IS AC/10.

Also, IS LRMs can punch through AMS MUCH easier than Clan LRMs, but all LRMs are garbage in most situations.

I bow and stand corrected. I was operating on an assumption. That's something I often tell my students to avoid. Thanks for the info.

I still say the Clans have the tech edge. It isn't overwhelming and isn't OP. They are supposed to be better. I don't complain, but I do expect people to concede the facts that most clan weapons are equal or better, or even come in a greater variety for more flexibility, than IS weapons. Plus the reconfigurable hardpoints on the Omnimechs beats the limitation of engine sizes and fixed jump jets.

Not balanced... not meant to be. But let's just play the bliggering game!

[Baulven]

There have been times I have literally lost a recharge race using small pulse lasers vs is large pulse lasers. There are quirks and a meta based upon the bonuses that IS receive that offset clan advantage.

[Flak Kannon]

My Commando 3A eats Artic Cheetahs up.

One on one, they stand NO chance 8/10 times. The massive agility/speed of the Comm and the tendency of Cheetah pilots to shoot far too much, far too often ( they overheat as I chase their tail back shooting, jump jetting.. just too hot ), and my lack of heat build with my preferred loadout(s) makes my DPS near 50% greater, anecdotally.

The times a cheetah has bested me, often on Cold maps, and they have 3 or 4 Clan Medium Pulse lasers, and manage heat and distance well. The 6,7,8 SL or SPL load outs on the Cheetahs are a burden and do hurt, but not as lethal to me and my play style. If the Cheetah has regular mediums .. or my favorite snack,... 2 ERLL, its mine, it's all mine. It's all about burn time on the lasers, clans shoot soooo ... slow.... and many pilots are unable, 8/10 times to hold lasers on track on the fast, eratic movements the Comm can produce.

So.. I say this with pure truth, the IS Comm, when piloted well, can't be touched by Clan lights. The only other light mechs I fear is 1. a Great Locust pilot with 4, 5, or 6 Small Pulse Lasers. They eat me up when piloted aggressively, and with skill. 2. A Jenner, Clan or IS, with streaks.. a very, very rare sight anymore.

SlyJJ, on 18 September 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

Examples? Artic cheetahs get decimated by which IS lights? Streak crows get decimated by which IS medium? Timberswolves and kodiaks reign supreme at heavy and assault... so which IS mechs "shite" on clan mechs?

[Mcgral18]

Mister Popo, on 20 September 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

He's not going by logic. He's going by stats. Pretty flawed way of gauging a player, but oh well.

It's a perfectly accurate gauge of a player


If he consistently plays poorly, there's a reason for that. Sure, you don't know if it's because he uses Terribad robots, or lacks certain competency in Shooty Stompy Robots, but the numbers give you good insight in whether they know their stuff.

[Mister Popo]

Mcgral18, on 20 September 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

It's a perfectly accurate gauge of a player


If he consistently plays poorly, there's a reason for that. Sure, you don't know if it's because he uses Terribad robots, or lacks certain competency in Shooty Stompy Robots, but the numbers give you good insight in whether they know their stuff.

Here's 3 examples. Example 1: A better player who constantly plays with bad players because they're all friends. His friends cause him to lose psr he would have gained playing solo. Example 2: A mediocre player whose psr would normally go down playing solo, but goes up because he only plays quick plays with competent unit members. Example 3: A player who has good stats, but is in tier 5. He might be a good player he might not be and just happens to be good at clubbing seals. Stats and tiers are not necessarily an accurate gauge of a player.

Edited by Mister Popo, 20 September 2016 - 05:41 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Mister Popo, on 20 September 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Here's 3 examples. Example 1: A better player who constantly plays with bad players because they're all friends. His friends cause him to lose psr he would have gained playing solo. Example 2: A mediocre player whose psr would normally go down playing solo, but goes up because he only plays quick plays with competent unit members. Example 3: A player who has good stats, but is in tier 5. He might be a good player he might not be and just happens to be good at clubbing seals. Stats and tiers are not necessarily an accurate gauge of a player.

im in Teir 4, and my stats are pretty bad, with my computer i usually run at 10-15fps,
but MWO is more about Twitch shooting, positioning and decision making make or break you in a match,
so even with low Frames i can still Contribute, even if im not Super Skilled to Elite,

im clearly not the best, but as long as i can Draw Fire away from the Best,

just Ask McGral,

[Vxheous]

Mister Popo, on 20 September 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Here's 3 examples. Example 1: A better player who constantly plays with bad players because they're all friends. His friends cause him to lose psr he would have gained playing solo. Example 2: A mediocre player whose psr would normally go down playing solo, but goes up because he only plays quick plays with competent unit members. Example 3: A player who has good stats, but is in tier 5. He might be a good player he might not be and just happens to be good at clubbing seals. Stats and tiers are not necessarily an accurate gauge of a player.

Example 1: His K/D would still be decent if he was a good player, but his W/L will suffer a bit. Example 2: His W/L might be ok, but his K/D will most likely be poor because he's getting carried. Example 3: If you consistently have a high K/D and W/L while clubbing seals, you will quickly climb out of Tier 5.

[SlyJJ]

I disagree with the idea of measuring a player by their stats- my K/D ratio isnt far off from others that are at the top of the stats board with their clan mechs and all.

I get decent damage in most of my CW matches, but I cant help it when others gank my kills. I really dont care too much though, because I really just want the loyalty. Then there are the guys that get in the final shot, but dont do damage. And again just like popo is saying, if you're routinely gaming against clanners that are well... clanners you're going to suffer a bit in your stats. Again, its not a coincidence that every competitive unit goes clan.

[Mister Popo]

Didn't mentioned clanners in my rant about stats and tiers.

[Vxheous]

SlyJJ, on 20 September 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

I disagree with the idea of measuring a player by their stats- my K/D ratio isnt far off from others that are at the top of the stats board with their clan mechs and all.

I get decent damage in most of my CW matches, but I cant help it when others gank my kills. I really dont care too much though, because I really just want the loyalty. Then there are the guys that get in the final shot, but dont do damage. And again just like popo is saying, if you're routinely gaming against clanners that are well... clanners you're going to suffer a bit in your stats. Again, its not a coincidence that every competitive unit goes clan.

Your K/D ratio is 1.08 (.42 W/L) which is leagues from the top players that have K/Ds of 4.0+ and W/L 4.0+. If you were getting your Kills "stolen" your KMDD should be pretty good, but your CW stats show a 362 KMDD in 185 games (.61 W/L)

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 20 September 2016 - 07:21 PM.

[VorpalAnvil]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 20 September 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

Your K/D ratio is 1.08 which is leagues from the top players that have K/Ds of 4.0+

But but but... Stats don't matter ( even though they are cold, indifferent, unbiased facts )

Mister Popo, on 20 September 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

Make your tier public.

You ever watch any black&white movies, before the days of CGI and the Michael Bay explosion fest taking the place of a plot and character development? I really thought it was sexier when they kept their clothes on.

[SlyJJ]

The top loyalist pilots (as in top 15) one has the same K/D ratio as mine. Fewer rather than more have better than 2.0

[MischiefSC]

Mcgral18, on 18 September 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Ha

Quirks, laughable




Given, there are no longer any Uberquirks, and the overperforming IS quirks have been decimated, they still have some good mechs which shite on many Clams


None are superior to the Kodiak, however.

Night Gyr heavy.

ACH light.

HBK2C/Nova Medium

KDK assault.

Party like it's 2014?