102 replies to this topic

[Insufficient Skill]

That's why combined queues for the leaderboards make no sense whatsoever.

[DGTLDaemon]

Insufficient Skill, on 27 September 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

That's why combined queues for the leaderboards make no sense whatsoever.

Problem is, by playing the leaderboard (or the personal challenge, for that matter), you are already farming specific performance indicators - like solo kills, kmdds, assists etc. And even in the solo queue, you have to adjust your playstyle if you want to get a good score. For example, normally I wouldn't give a damn about solo kills, I'm usually more focused on total match damage, but when I'm playing for the leaderboard, I specifically try to get as many solo kills as I can, because they make the biggest contribution to your score. So essentially you're farming the enemy team anyway. And I fail to see the big difference between farming solo or farming as a part of the group.

[MechWarrior414712]

soaq, on 25 September 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

a little spreadsheet i made for the weekends event. it will update itself until the info from the tournaments page is removed and then it will self destruct.

https://docs.google....sjpf_xdZL4/copy

This is very nice, thanks

[Insufficient Skill]

DGTLDaemon, on 27 September 2016 - 04:36 AM, said:

Problem is, by playing the leaderboard (or the personal challenge, for that matter), you are already farming specific performance indicators - like solo kills, kmdds, assists etc. And even in the solo queue, you have to adjust your playstyle if you want to get a good score. For example, normally I wouldn't give a damn about solo kills, I'm usually more focused on total match damage, but when I'm playing for the leaderboard, I specifically try to get as many solo kills as I can, because they make the biggest contribution to your score. So essentially you're farming the enemy team anyway. And I fail to see the big difference between farming solo or farming as a part of the group.

Let me help you see it:
When in a group, especially your unit, there's the possibility for 11 others to help you farming, for example by legging enemies you then safely take out, getting the Killing Blow, Solo Kill, KMDD, 3-4 components destroyed in addition to your damage score.

This completely invalidates the leaderboard per se, as in PUG queue you won't have that. Hence, the scoring is completely non-comparable. But is is compared. I don't care about the prizes or the board ranks, but PGI should be so honest and admit that this is a group-queue pampering, not a leaderboard with any semblance of it's regular meaning.

[DGTLDaemon]

Insufficient Skill, on 27 September 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

Let me help you see it:
When in a group, especially your unit, there's the possibility for 11 others to help you farming, for example by legging enemies you then safely take out, getting the Killing Blow, Solo Kill, KMDD, 3-4 components destroyed in addition to your damage score.

This completely invalidates the leaderboard per se, as in PUG queue you won't have that. Hence, the scoring is completely non-comparable. But is is compared. I don't care about the prizes or the board ranks, but PGI should be so honest and admit that this is a group-queue pampering, not a leaderboard with any semblance of it's regular meaning.

Yes, but on the other hand, when playing in a group, you risk running into another 12-man, and then you might end up being farmed It's teamwork vs. teamwork, I don't see a problem with that, especially as PGI keeps emphasizing that MWO is a team game. If you want a true individual leaderboard, you need to run 1v1 matches.

[Aramuside]

DGTLDaemon, on 27 September 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:

It might be as innocent as people from the same unit working together to maximize their "lead" player's performance in a given match - for example, by legging enemy mechs and leaving them for one player to secure the solo kill. I personally don't see anything objectionable in that - it's called TEAMWORK

(For the record, I haven't used any such tactics so far... But then, I'm not in the top 5 on the leaderboards, and probably won't be in the top 10 by the end of the event ).

I've had several group queue players mention this is going on but I take the opposite view - plain cheating as its supposed to be YOUR performance not the performance of your group.

[Aramuside]

I will say though for a Hail Mary this one qualified... my very last match before the timer ended with sub 3 minutes to go.
1. Aramuside 3,501 2. Windscape 3,483

Back to levelling mechs I guess.

[DGTLDaemon]

Allright, the event is now over, and it's time to say: thank you, PGI! Great personal challenge, a lot of fun playing that Night Gyr leaderboard, especially with the target painted on my back No, seriously - the "KMDD on Night Gyr" part of the personal challenge made the leaderboards for us Night Gyr pilots even more exciting. And it was great rocking that 3xUAC10 dakka - it will probably get castrated once the Erectile Dysfunction system goes live, so now is the time to enjoy it. All in all, a very fun weekend

[mp00]

hmm just a note.. got the reward for placing 37th..

1 Maltese Falcon Standing Item
3 Supply Keys
2,500 GXP... <--- doesn't look like I was supposed to get that...

[Aramuside]

DGTLDaemon, on 27 September 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

Allright, the event is now over, and it's time to say: thank you, PGI! Great personal challenge, a lot of fun playing that Night Gyr leaderboard, especially with the target painted on my back No, seriously - the "KMDD on Night Gyr" part of the personal challenge made the leaderboards for us Night Gyr pilots even more exciting. And it was great rocking that 3xUAC10 dakka - it will probably get castrated once the Erectile Dysfunction system goes live, so now is the time to enjoy it. All in all, a very fun weekend

He he yeah I decided I HATE Night Gyr's as they were out dakka'ing my JM6 non stop.

[Dee Eight]

Its also called...previously reported those players to PGI via emailing support in a previous leaderboard, they're still doing the same thing, so PGI's statements of watching those players in future leaderboard events amounted to a whitewashing/ignoring of the issue I previously reported. Thus... my caring over my performance in leaderboard events has ended. If they want to hand out free MC and Cbills to the same cheats every event, its their perogative.

Incidently I previously pointed out in emails to support I think three leaderboards ago that the scoring formula makes no allowance for tie games... they've had plenty of time to alter it for future events..did they? Nope. Its still better to lose a match for your team than to end in a tie as far as leaderboard scores go. They even replied acknowledging that fact.


Aug 17, 15:22 PDT[color=#2b2e2f]
[color=#2b2e2f]
Hi Kristan,[/color]
[color=#2b2e2f]
Thanks for getting in touch! When match result is tie, the event formula i srun as normal with no win or loss modifiers.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.[/color]
[color=#2b2e2f]
Stella Ku
Technical Support Representative
Piranha Games[/color]
[/color]

Edited by Dee Eight, 27 September 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[Firewired]

I spent a substantial amount of time during this weekend and all I have to show for it all is a few supply cache keys. I lost my spot in the top 75 Marauder leaderboard to last-hour competitors, but even if I had not lost it I would have been rewarded with.... wait for it... another three supply cache keys. How shall I contain my excitement? <sarcasm, just to be blatantly clear>

I focused all of my time on two mechs that I play reasonably well in QP matches while actually trying to achieve the primary objective - a win for the team.

I realized early on that this strategy was flawed. The only means to actually achieve any of the.... erm... achievements from these type of events is to be a selfish fool and forget about winning or surviving (not a big enough benefit in the scoring system) or even remotely considering helping the team out in achieving the match goal, a win.

I am not wired that way and I have a difficult time playing that way. It seems counter intuitive to what the game goals really are. So I suppose my results are what I deserve. Lots of wins, but virtually no rewards. Well, I did get those bright shiny three supply cache keys! Sweeet <yes, sarcasm again, just to be clear>

I have to agree with Baradul / MoltenMetal on this one - shelf these events please, or if they must be continued change the method by which rewards on leaderboards are given. Encourage team play, not individual play. Reward component destructions, flanking, hit/run, savior kills, assists, and all of the other game-monitored results that contribute to team work wins rather than reward for individual play (as in do not reward Kills, KMDD's, and Damage in general).

If you want to reward people for individual play just create a Solaris VII map/mode.

That is just my opinion of course. I am sure others will disagree as they are entitled to. There is not right or wrong here.

On the positive side, I do very much appreciate the Heavy Sale. I was grinding a lot of c-bills for the two months leading up to the expected Heavy Sale, and even though I spent some of those on the Kodiaks when they came out for c-bills (how could I not do it?) I still am very thankful for the sale on Heavy class mechs. Thank you for that.

p.s. - please let us sell supply caches for 5MC or 10MC each instead of 50K c-bills?

[Aramuside]

firewired, on 27 September 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

I spent a substantial amount of time during this weekend and all I have to show for it all is a few supply cache keys. I lost my spot in the top 75 Marauder leaderboard to last-hour competitors, but even if I had not lost it I would have been rewarded with.... wait for it... another three supply cache keys. How shall I contain my excitement? <sarcasm, just to be blatantly clear> I focused all of my time on two mechs that I play reasonably well in QP matches while actually trying to achieve the primary objective - a win for the team. I realized early on that this strategy was flawed. The only means to actually achieve any of the.... erm... achievements from these type of events is to be a selfish fool and forget about winning or surviving (not a big enough benefit in the scoring system) or even remotely considering helping the team out in achieving the match goal, a win. I am not wired that way and I have a difficult time playing that way. It seems counter intuitive to what the game goals really are. So I suppose my results are what I deserve. Lots of wins, but virtually no rewards. Well, I did get those bright shiny three supply cache keys! Sweeet <yes, sarcasm again, just to be clear> I have to agree with Baradul / MoltenMetal on this one - shelf these events please, or if they must be continued change the method by which rewards on leaderboards are given. Encourage team play, not individual play. Reward component destructions, flanking, hit/run, savior kills, assists, and all of the other game-monitored results that contribute to team work wins rather than reward for individual play (as in do not reward Kills, KMDD's, and Damage in general). If you want to reward people for individual play just create a Solaris VII map/mode. That is just my opinion of course. I am sure others will disagree as they are entitled to. There is not right or wrong here. On the positive side, I do very much appreciate the Heavy Sale. I was grinding a lot of c-bills for the two months leading up to the expected Heavy Sale, and even though I spent some of those on the Kodiaks when they came out for c-bills (how could I not do it?) I still am very thankful for the sale on Heavy class mechs. Thank you for that. p.s. - please let us sell supply caches for 5MC or 10MC each instead of 50K c-bills?

I get where you're coming from and theres definitely quite a bit of truth there but many of those extra measurements favour certain chassis that I would argue aren't necessarily the forte of the heavy class. As it was KMDD, solo kills, final blows and damage done aren't bad measurements for heavies, its just unfortunate that in most cases the tournament doesn't lead to improved team play more because the awards are solo awards and you are competing with 23 not 12 players in every match. From memory the group events weren't that popular unless you regularly fight in a group so thats not necessarily a solution either.

Coincidentally, at the higher levels survival and winning definitely come into play as those points make a big difference but at that point you also need 6 or so kills and high damage to improve your score. In Jagermechs we needed a 350 point average match to get to the top and I came 30th overall. Some of the points posted were insane and quite scary!

[PFC Carsten]

Make „Win“ a mandatory requirement for each an every level of reward. That will at least deterr lone rambos (ramboes?) who run into the enemy and try to score a KMDD on a single enemy heavy and similar behaviour.

Yes, I know, you're not in control of your achievement any more, but you HAVE to try and help your team win in order to earn anything besides C-Bills/XP. Maybe that's a good deal after all.

[DGTLDaemon]

PFC Carsten, on 28 September 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

Make „Win“ a mandatory requirement for each an every level of reward. That will at least deterr lone rambos (ramboes?) who run into the enemy and try to score a KMDD on a single enemy heavy and similar behaviour.

Yes, I know, you're not in control of your achievement any more, but you HAVE to try and help your team win in order to earn anything besides C-Bills/XP. Maybe that's a good deal after all.

May be relevant for the personal challenge, but not very relevant for the leaderboard. To earn a reasonably high score, you need to put some VERY good games on the board. I'm talking like 700-1000 damage, a couple of solo kills, 3-4 KMDDs, at least half a dozen assists, preferably survive and win - and that's just to get into the top 25-50, depending on the specific leaderboard. You can't do that by rushing headlong into the enemy team. It's a very tricky balance between being aggressive, surviving long enough, and making sure your team doesn't get decimated in the process because it won't do you any good if you are left alone against half of the enemy team. Makes it even more enjoyable, though Much more enjoyable than simply going for the win.

[Toxicresidue]

love the great tips from the eastern European packet droppers, thanks for the hot tip

[Odanan]

soaq, on 25 September 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

a little spreadsheet i made for the weekends event. it will update itself until the info from the tournaments page is removed and then it will self destruct.

https://docs.google....sjpf_xdZL4/copy

Thanks! I was doing something like that - thankfully I saw your post before sinking more time on it.

[DGTLDaemon]

Toxicresidue, on 28 September 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

love the great tips from the eastern European packet droppers, thanks for the hot tip

Not sure where your sarcasm is coming from. I'm not trying to teach others how to play, or even implying that I'm a good player - just sharing my personal experiences from playing the leaderboard. It's still farming, but it's a very complex form of farming, far more complicated than simply chasing a single enemy to get a KMDD or a solo kill. A lot of variables to keep in mind, and I like it this way. Takes a lot of hard work to put a good match together.

[PFC Carsten]

DGTLDaemon, on 28 September 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

May be relevant for the personal challenge, …

That's what it's supposed to, yes. Improve teamplay and player experience across the board.

[Gwei Loong]

Quote

I realized early on that this strategy was flawed. The only means to actually achieve any of the.... erm... achievements from these type of events is to be a selfish fool and forget about winning or surviving (not a big enough benefit in the scoring system) or even remotely considering helping the team out in achieving the match goal, a win.

From my own experience I am not sure why anyone would even think or say that. I personally lost at least a total of 100 points on my score because the group I was in lost at one time or another. It's x5 if you lose not x10. This may not seem like much but it is when you factor in how that effected your overall score for that game. One of the worst moments I had was getting 5kmdd's, 2 solo's, 2 kills and doing 1093 damage but having my team lose. It's just a game, I'm ok with it, but...
Another thing I do not understand about this line of reasoning is this. How can taking point, pushing the enemy, surviving, doing 800 plus damage and soloing at least 3 people not be good for the group you are in.
By the way I played the whole event in the solo que and I personally do not have any problems with where I placed or that a few people beat me. I like the events and sure if they favour group players or units then so be it. Yes there's farming, there's cheating, there's team mates shooting you in the back and I have seen some downright dirty players doing some downright dirty things but that's Solaris.
On the other side of it I've also had really good times, some funny conversations and some fantastic groups. Playing solo you have the benefit of not having to wait for a match after you’re in the que cycle. It's just play, win or lose and then drop again.