104 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 September 2016 - 07:37 PM, said:

Citation?

Oh he's right, it was I believe, one of the first streams or vlog's as part of a Q&A, I'm not going to spend hours possibly days searching for it, just to prove another persons point, you can believe or not, its like Clan AC weapons..the weapon that was just a place holder and has been in ever since, with no attempt to either remove, or do something with it.

I prefer to think it was just a feeble excuse, said do try and deflect the real reason of we don't care, and can't be bothered to even attempt to change it, now that is purely my speculation, because if what was said is actually the truth its far worse, than my fiction in my opinion

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 September 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

A bit of a stretch by no means of the imagination

It's not gonna be 9 months late. Will their be fixes or adjustments needed? maybe

pgi said faction warfare in 90 days, it was three weeks short of a year, so no, its not a stretch of the imagination by any means

[Bud Crue]

Cathy, on 26 September 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

Oh he's right, it was I believe, one of the first streams or vlog's as part of a Q&A, I'm not going to spend hours possibly days searching for it, just to prove another persons point, you can believe or not, its like Clan AC weapons..the weapon that was just a place holder and has been in ever since, with no attempt to either remove, or do something with it.

Here is the requested source btw:

April 16, 2015 Town Hall. At about 2:30-ish Summary: Programmer left, resources allocated elsewhere, etc.
Pod cast is in the archives and on you tube if really interested.

[MW222]

Hunka Junk, on 24 September 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

My guess:

You will be forced to split a pile of skill points into the various weapon types. Putting points into a weapon type will have some minor quirk effect to buff the weapon (or, more cynically, the weapon will function crappier until you put points into it). You will not have enough points to max out every weapon line.

How would you you feel about such a rework?

Or, do you think something else is going to happen to the skill tree? If so, what?

Having already mastered/paid the GXP for every range and cool down for Clan and IS weapons NOT very well. As to where it may go? That depends on where and how the sales drone in the production meeting thinks there is any money to be grubbed.

[Davers]

I might be the minority here, but I am hoping that the new system is more like the current "fill in the boxes" system than a more loose "pick your skill tree" one.

[LordKnightFandragon]

THe skill tree in the current game seems only like an added layer of Opness to a game where we already have perfect aim bot accuracy from our weapons. The skill trees seem redundant honestly.

Maybe if we have CoF, some sort of deviation in the shots, higher heat output, and just in general, alot of areas that actually needed improvement, then a skill tree might matter. As it is, all you really need is a good mech and a clue on how to play. you dont even need a skill tree......

TOok out a KDK-1 and forgot to put in my skill tree points. I still managed 730 some damage and a kill in a 5-12 loss lol......8 CERML, 1UAC10 and an LRM15...probably a terrible build, the LRM is there, literally just for looks mostly.

[Wolf Ender]

you guys know how in a lot of MMOs in order to min-max your character to make them the best tank possible or the best damage dealer possible, you have to make sacrifices in other areas. And people really into those games often have several alts because they want to have a healer or something else that's a different play style or helpful for other situations.

how would you feel about a system that eliminates the need for the three mech variants per chassis, but then each mech you buy regardless of variant has a specific XP tree or skill path you can spec it out to, making you able to buff certain aspects but then you would have to sacrifice in other areas. All your xp is invested into that exact mech so if you sold it, you lose all the progress you put into it, but on the other hand if you wanted to have two or three copies of the same variant you could do that and each could have a different "build" spec'd out to maximize effectiveness with whatever type of config you're running.

I feel like this could piss some people off or make the game harder at least because then if you had a mech that you put all the quirks and buffs into making it a great long range sniper, you can't take that mech and make it into a bralwer with high mobility anymore. You would have to start from scratch or you would have a bunch of quirks and buffs that aren't really befitting the role you're using that mech in. On the other hand it would make it more worth the time in investing hours building up a mech into a specialized role and then having the ability to do that role really well.

What do you guys think. Does the community actually want more variations in the mechs? Or do we want all the mechs to be basically what you see is what you get. I can understand both sides. One one hand it would be fun to surprise your enemies with a mech that's spec'd out really uniquely and into something they're not expecting. But on the other hand it might be frustrating because if you see two enemy catapults on the other team both C4 variants, you can't be certain that they have the same capabilities because they could be running vastly different builds. Maybe people would not like that level of unpredictability in a game like MWO.

[Jetfire]

My expectations:
-Total XP required will be the same
-XP will be fully refunded for each chassis
-GXP will be refunded if modules change
-Total GXP for existing modules will be the same

My hopes:
-Pilot Skills will relate more to differentiation of role than just a grind to full function
-Three specs choices for each mech from one of several roles (Flanker, Tank, Ranged, Scout, Sniper, Skirmisher)
-Respec available for CBills

Examples
Tank:
-damage mitigation/bonus armor/internals
-reduced weapon heat/ED

Scout:
-increased speed
-increased turn
-reduced detection range

Sniper:
-increased zoom from module
-increased AC/gauss ammo/increased gauss cycle
-reduced ppc heat/ increased cycle time

Flanker:
-reduced lock time
-increased speed
-increased torso twist
-reduced cycle time

Ranged:
-increase sensor range
-reduced lockon time
-increased missile ammo/ammo crit chance
-target locks indicated to other teammates on map

Skirmisher
-increased ammo
-increased internals
-increased torso twist

Then you could choose to say build a scout atlas or a tank commando depending on what you plan to do with it.

[RestosIII]

Jetfire, on 26 September 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

scout atlas

Steiner seal of approval on that right there.

[Davers]

Jetfire, on 26 September 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

My expectations:
-Total XP required will be the same
-XP will be fully refunded for each chassis
-GXP will be refunded if modules change
-Total GXP for existing modules will be the same

My hopes:
-Pilot Skills will relate more to differentiation of role than just a grind to full function
-Three specs choices for each mech from one of several roles (Flanker, Tank, Ranged, Scout, Sniper, Skirmisher)
-Respec available for CBills

Examples
Tank:
-damage mitigation/bonus armor/internals
-reduced weapon heat/ED

Scout:
-increased speed
-increased turn
-reduced detection range

Sniper:
-increased zoom from module
-increased AC/gauss ammo/increased gauss cycle
-reduced ppc heat/ increased cycle time

Flanker:
-reduced lock time
-increased speed
-increased torso twist
-reduced cycle time

Ranged:
-increase sensor range
-reduced lockon time
-increased missile ammo/ammo crit chance
-target locks indicated to other teammates on map

Skirmisher
-increased ammo
-increased internals
-increased torso twist

Then you could choose to say build a scout atlas or a tank commando depending on what you plan to do with it.

This is I don't like systems like this. You have all these "choices" yet Tank is the best one for pretty much any role you want to do. Nothing beats damage mitigation + reduced heat. The other choices just aren't as good, outside of a handful of builds, and even then a gauss sniper would get more out of Tank than Sniper (but a dual gauss Skirmisher wouldn't be terrible. But it might benefit more from a Tank's armor bonus than the structure quirks).

There are only a handful of stats that really matter, and if you can minmax then that's all you will see.

[Wolf Ender]

Davers, on 26 September 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

This is I don't like systems like this. You have all these "choices" yet Tank is the best one for pretty much any role you want to do. Nothing beats damage mitigation + reduced heat. The other choices just aren't as good, outside of a handful of builds, and even then a gauss sniper would get more out of Tank than Sniper (but a dual gauss Skirmisher wouldn't be terrible. But it might benefit more from a Tank's armor bonus than the structure quirks).

There are only a handful of stats that really matter, and if you can minmax then that's all you will see.

what if the armor and structure buffs came with some sort of a mobility debuff. maybe torso twist speed? maybe accel/decel? would it still be that much better?

[Davers]

Wolf Ender, on 26 September 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

what if the armor and structure buffs came with some sort of a mobility debuff. maybe torso twist speed? maybe accel/decel? would it still be that much better?

It isn't necessarily the example given; I know that's just a player spiralling ideas. It's the concept in general. Even big name companies do systems like this poorly. Look at Civilization 5- one of the most popular strategy games out there. They have faction bonuses called Social Policies, and you initially have a choice of 4 in the beginning. But Tradition is taken like 95% of the time, no matter which of the 30+ factions you pick.

It's just very hard to create real choices instead of X being better than Y or Z.

[SmithMPBT]

Davers, on 24 September 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

Down that path lies P2W.

Respecing for Cash is a time honored tradition for us older folks that don't do 40 hours of research on a game before playing. 5 bucks (estimating) to fix all your bad choices ingame doesn't seem too bad. I'm sure they'll put it in Supply Caches and you'll get free keys from challenges to open them, so the cheapest among us will be able to respec too.

[Davers]

SmithMPBT, on 26 September 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

Respecing for Cash is a time honored tradition for us older folks that don't do 40 hours of research on a game before playing. 5 bucks (estimating) to fix all your bad choices ingame doesn't seem too bad. I'm sure they'll put it in Supply Caches and you'll get free keys from challenges to open them, so the cheapest among us will be able to respec too.

$5 per mech for over 100 mechs, every few 6 months to keep up with meta shifts is more accurate.

Let PGI make that money on decals and preorders and keep balancing mechs free, ok?

[oldradagast]

My predictions for the new Skill Tree (if/when it happens):

• It will somehow be needlessly complicated with lots of false choices and obviously overpowered and underpowered skills.
  
• It will somehow be monetized. Maybe it costs money to reskill your mechs after you sold all the trash ones ages ago, or maybe you have to have skills for each weapon you use, so if you want to change weapons, you need to change skills, which costs money.
  
• There will be at least one hot-patch to fix some glaringly stupid skill, either one that is laughably overpowered or one which literally breaks the game.
  
• Attempts to allow people to respec existing mechs without buying back all the old ones and re-leveling them will be met with "we tried that, but we couldn't get the code to work." Or, they will try to put it in the game and it will break it, requiring a hot-fix to remove it.
  
• People will rightly hate the changes, but nothing will be done for months, and then maybe more radical changes will be made - half of which nobody requested - at the same time as all the Quirks get rewritten yet again to "balance" out the effects of the new skill tree.

As for me, I'm not spending a dime more on this game until I figure out what it is morphing into over the next few months with energy draw, skill tree changes, etc. There's a fine line between "changing things to keep them interesting" and "changing everything so you have no idea what you're purchasing."

Edited by oldradagast, 26 September 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[oldradagast]

Mordric, on 25 September 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

i'd hope that if they go with a skill point system, they will also include a reset system as well.. so if I invest into a ballisitcs system, and desided i did not want to go that route, I could some how reset the system, and redistribute he sill points.

Sure they will - for 500 MC. And did we mention that with the regular wild swings in planned balance with ED and Quirks, you'll get to change those skills often?

How about another mech pack?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Wolf Ender, on 26 September 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

you guys know how in a lot of MMOs in order to min-max your character to make them the best tank possible or the best damage dealer possible, you have to make sacrifices in other areas. And people really into those games often have several alts because they want to have a healer or something else that's a different play style or helpful for other situations.

how would you feel about a system that eliminates the need for the three mech variants per chassis,

I woulda have LOVED that in MWO. I honestly despise the whole "gotta have 3 mechs" thing. Gotta max all 3 mechs to get 1 mastered.....it really felt like PGI was just trying to hard to artificially inflate the grind.

[Davers]

oldradagast', on 26 September 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

As for me, I'm not spending a dime more on this game until I figure out what it is morphing into over the next few months with energy draw, skill tree changes, etc. There's a fine line between "changing things to keep them interesting" and "changing everything so you have no idea what you're purchasing."

4 years in and it feels like they are still working on basic gameplay.

[oldradagast]

Davers, on 26 September 2016 - 03:24 PM, said:

4 years in and it feels like they are still working on basic gameplay.

The worst part is that the basic game play doesn't really *need* vast rewrites. Oh, sure - it could be deeper and more immersive, but it works well enough in its current form. It needs more tweaks than random rewrites, and given PGI's track record on Big Things - aka, the smoldering crate of FP - I have limited faith this will work out well.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Cathy, on 26 September 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

Oh he's right, it was I believe, one of the first streams or vlog's as part of a Q&A, I'm not going to spend hours possibly days searching for it, just to prove another persons point, you can believe or not, its like Clan AC weapons..the weapon that was just a place holder and has been in ever since, with no attempt to either remove, or do something with it.

you made the claim so it is your job to sort and spend the hours. Otherwise it's just written off as not accurate at all. Pulling an imperius and making everyone else do your burden of proof is not how the real world works. Make the claim, give the evidence. So you are probably exaggerating a bit as to the AC's being place-holders or I doubt you are quoting

Cathy, on 26 September 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

I prefer to think it was just a feeble excuse, said do try and deflect the real reason of we don't care, and can't be bothered to even attempt to change it, now that is purely my speculation, because if what was said is actually the truth its far worse, than my fiction in my opinion

Think whatever you want, without any evidence you can put forth anything. You are very sneaky as well. Either way you put it, you come out on top. Either it's specualtion and worse, or it's worse

The Clan LBX Cluster vs Slug Ammunition Selection

As mentioned in the last Dev Vlog, we ran into an issue with the ability to swap ammunition types on the fly while playing the game. This has not changed. For the time being, we have created a one off weapon type that has the exact same characteristics as the LB-X in terms of weight and space requirements but fire slugs with the same characteristics of the Clan Ultra AutoCannon counterparts. For example, the Clan LB 2-X will fire a cluster round totalling 2 damage. The Clan AutoCannon/2 will fire a 2 round volley with each slug doing 1 damage for a total of 2 damage. Players will have to make the choice as to which weapon to equip to their Clan 'Mechs according to the firing style they wish to use. The space and weight of the Clan AutoCannon/2 is the same as the Clan LB 2-X. The range, firing mechanics, damage, etc. are the same as the Clan Ultra AutoCannon/2 (minus the double tap ability). These "Clan AutoCannon/#" weapons will remain in the game until such time that we can get the ammunition switching working

"these clan auto cannons will remain in the game until such time" They made subsequent post to explain why they couldn't do the switch in ammo.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 26 September 2016 - 05:12 PM.

[Davers]

BLOOD WOLF, on 26 September 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

you made the claim so it is your job to sort and spend the hours. Otherwise it's just written off as not accurate at all. Pulling an imperius and making everyone else do your burden of proof is not how the real world works. Make the claim, give the evidence. So you are probably exaggerating a bit as to the AC's being place-holders or I doubt you are quoting
Think whatever you want, without any evidence you can put forth anything. You are very sneaky as well. Either way you put it, you come out on top. Either it's specualtion and worse, or it's worse

The Clan LBX Cluster vs Slug Ammunition Selection

[color=#00FFFF]As mentioned in the last Dev Vlog, we ran into an issue with the ability to swap ammunition types on the fly while playing the game. This has not changed. For the time being, we have created a one off weapon type that has the exact same characteristics as the LB-X in terms of weight and space requirements but fire slugs with the same characteristics of the Clan Ultra AutoCannon counterparts. For example, the Clan LB 2-X will fire a cluster round totalling 2 damage. The Clan AutoCannon/2 will fire a 2 round volley with each slug doing 1 damage for a total of 2 damage. Players will have to make the choice as to which weapon to equip to their Clan 'Mechs according to the firing style they wish to use. The space and weight of the Clan AutoCannon/2 is the same as the Clan LB 2-X. The range, firing mechanics, damage, etc. are the same as the Clan Ultra AutoCannon/2 (minus the double tap ability). These "Clan AutoCannon/#" weapons will remain in the game until such time that we can get the ammunition switching working.[/color]

It takes a big man to admit he was wrong and to provide the quote as well. Kudos.