375 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Aside from the many other obvious reasons CW failed was the fact that more often than not, depending upon time of play, it was laborious to try and find / play a match in a reasonable frame of time consistently.

One redeeming aspect of QP is it's easy enough to drop a few matches and return to reality with little effort or commitment.

While I'm not entirely sold on Russ' new-fangle roll CW into QP with drop-decks... I'm willing to give it a go before I preface it CW waste-of-time Mk. II.

If this endeavor can salvage CW and give birth to something other than QP ala deathmatch... I'm all for it. Even if it is some bastardized iteration.

Nothing ventured... Nothing gained.

[MrMadguy]

KodiakGW, on 05 October 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

Wow, 13 pages. Will just reply to OP and topic.

Wallet never fully closed. Bought Spirit Bear not too long ago. But, I also processed refunds for PHawk, Night Gyr, Victor Master Pack. Last new mech was (duh) Kodiak. So none of the ones since then.

I wouldn't have processed refunds if it were not for one thing. Bad games. Getting sick and tired of being one of the "CARRY HARDER" player half the time, and seeing the enemy getting stomped so hard I can barely keep up the other half.

There have been plenty of suggestions made. All ignored. Not going to rehash them. When I sign on and do a couple of quick solo PUG drops, and have good games, I'll be buying a lot of the non-"CARRY HARDER" mechs.

We are all in this boat of unbalanced matches. You complain, that you're being put into matches, where you have to "CARRY HARDER", cuz other players in your matches are complete noobs. I complain, that I'm being put into matches, where Tier 1 players carry me, so I'm actually just punching bag there. But the problem is in fact, that, I guess, population of this game dropped way too low, so recently, after several tries to fix queue times, PGI simply shut MM down. And this fail is caused by chain reaction of problems. There was a time, when I was providing feedback about why this game is terrible. PGI simply ignored me. And what now? Game failed. They have to disable MM in order to keep it going, so they will be able to sell several last "mech packs". But it makes situation even worse. Even more players are leaving due to unbalanced matches. Why couldn't PGI just fix all problems, while it wasn't too late for fixes? I just can't understand... Was it so hard to fix MM, implement some kind of BV, so all DWF/TBR/ACH/KDK/NGR guys, playing OP Meta 'Mechs, would play in their own league? Was it so hard to implement per-'Mech rating? Was it so hard to allow us to choose one 'Mech form 4 drop deck after map/mode is already known? Was it so hard to further scale armor up to simply increase TTK and make armor to serve it's purpose for more armored 'Mechs, that are intended to be tanky, like Assaults? No! Instead PGI was haughty, stubborn and said us, that they know better, how to develop games! Now eat this fail, guys.

[Mondos]

Bishop are you keeping tabs on common themes in this thread?
Just wondering if it is worth working through it for key points that keep coming up.

[Sereglach]

There are some small things that PGI could do which would get me to at least make one or two small "good faith" purchases.

1. (Everyone who knows me knows this is coming) Fix Flamers. Give them the proper reengineered fix that was promised a number of years ago, now, when the Ember Firestarter Hero was released. Instead what we got was raising values on a broken weapon (with exploits long reported to PGI) that made said exploits allow the weapons to break the game. This resulted in PGI smashing the weapon into the dirt with horrible attributes and convoluted layers of crap thrown on top of an already flawed design. For my favorite weapon in all of Battletech . . . yeah . . . I want it fixed.

2. Iterative game balance. It's the little things that would go a long way. For example, remove MG CoF and then bump damage up to 1.0 DPS again and see where it stands. Keep making adjustments until you see people equipping MGs to mechs instead of heat sinks. Same with the IS SL, LBXs, AMS's, Jump Jets, etc. I've reiterated this point in numerous places . . . I don't think I need to give the whole speech again.

3. Adding in defensive options for mechs (we don't need pure TT translation here). Hardened armor alone -even at pure TT translation- would instantly give players a conscious choice that allows them to invest raw tonnage into defense. Reflective armor can grant 50% reduced energy damage but 15% increased damage from Ballistics and Missiles (it uses less crits than Reactive Armor, so more penalty given to provide balance). Reactive armor can grant 50% reduced Ballistic and Missile damage but 10% increased damage from Energy weapons. It's basically just some XML additions and three new buttons on the Armor Upgrades slot on the Mech Lab. 1-2 Months for implementation, tops.


As it stands, NO mech pack (not even a Wasp or Crusader) would get me to open my wallet. I already resisted the Rifleman and Phoenix Hawk. I think the only way I'd purchase the Wasp is if it was made known that enough Pre-Orders to support the Wasp for MWO (kind of like the Urbanmech) would ensure it's development for MWO AND Guarantee that the mech would appear in HBS Battletech Game.


That said, some pipe dreams that'd get more than "good faith" purchases out of me.

1. Same as above . . . fix the Flamer. Fixing my favorite weapon in the game could certainly revitalize enough fun in the game for me to at least get some more long-term funds and budgeting devoted to MWO.

2. Fix/Rebuild Faction Warfare Option A: I'd be incredibly happy if PGI used the current FW maps as basis, expanded them to be 4-5 times their current size (and removed the "lanes"), made combat continuous with people joining and leaving through the fight; and turning the whole mess into a "Planetside 2" type experience. First team to wear the other down and/or Destroy their Dropships (spawn points) wins the planet. Once a planet is actually lost then a new planet on the IS map "attack lanes" is selected and the map instantly redrawn . . . no "cycles" and end-of-cycle-rushes. If people aren't playing then PvE enemies are inserted, instead, to fill any non-player gaps and only drain resources at 1/2 the rate of a live player . . . making fighting AI "fodder" still a challenge to take a planet.

3. Fix Faction Warfare Option B: Quick Play links to Faction Play and planets are won/lost based off of a ticket system instead of "Zones" and "Windows"/"Cycles". If you drop in quick play your kills, assists, and wins provide points to the planet your faction is in contention with. Those matches are worth less than the other "Faction Play" matches, but still contribute. "Lone Wolves" and "Mercs" are given quick-play choices based on who's the most desperate for help (better c-bill bonuses for kills/assists/wins). Loyalists get consistent c-bill bonuses for their actions while playing but Lone Wolves and Merc units can have better or worse c-bill bonuses based on who they're helping and how badly they need it. When a planet flips ALL players get small MC bonuses for their participation. 1 MC per 25 points contributed for winners and 1 MC per 50 points contributed for losers. Leave the Tag and MC bonuses for the tagged unit just as phase 3, now.

- Option A starts mostly from scratch and Option B at least allows PGI to build off of what they already have put together.

4. Overhaul all game modes to focus more on their objectives involved rather than just kills. If this requires implementing the FW Drop Decks and/or respawns into Quick Play then do it! While "One Mech A Match" does make your mech feel valuable . . . it also is a major contributing factor to all current quick-play game modes devolving into a Deathmatch scenario.

5. Major PVE Content . . . namely MechWarrior Campaigns. Even if it needed to be purchased and ran in the MWO client as a "DLC Campaign" type situation, it's desperately needed to make MWO into the true MechWarrior experience of all of the other official titles of the namesake franchise. They have the assets to set up campaigns for early Succession Wars, Lostech Revival, and Clan Invasion campaigns; and with a few additions of tech/mechs they'd have the FedCom Civil War covered, too. Hell, to top it off they could get vehicle assets from what HBS is developing given that PGI is sharing the mech assets with HBS.

I hope that adequately answers your question, Bishop, to acceptable levels. Also, here's hoping that PGI is actually paying attention to this thread, because there's a pretty fair amount of consistency on certain subjects. I think PGI has some solid leads buried in this thread on what people actually want (besides mech packs).

Edited by Sereglach, 05 October 2016 - 10:15 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

Deathlike, on 05 October 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Adding more buckets simply dilutes the pool.

Even if that wasn't the case, creating a perennially empty bucket is not productive either (like the 12v12 queue).

Solution, get rid of group cue. Already have Faction Warfare which allows any group size (except 11 of course like group cue). Then bring stock mode out of private. See not more buckets, just bucket replacement with something completely different and new.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mondos, on 05 October 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

Bishop are you keeping tabs on common themes in this thread?
Just wondering if it is worth working through it for key points that keep coming up.

No. I thought about trying to, to append to the OP; but honestly don't have the desire to.

[Bishop Steiner]

Oh c'mon you guy! All you really need to open your wallet is MORE MECHPACKs, right?!?!?!?!

[Mole]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Oh c'mon you guy! All you really need to open your wallet is MORE MECHPACKs, right?!?!?!?!

The sdad part is, PGI wouldn't continue the whole mechpack trend if it wasn't working. A company does not continue sales practices that aren't pulling a profit. So many of us may be voting with our wallets, but not enough of us to make them consider change. There's still plenty of people who do indeed wanna buy a mechpack.

[Clownwarlord]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Oh c'mon you guy! All you really need to open your wallet is MORE MECHPACKs, right?!?!?!?!

I think Bishop is looking for an *** whooping!

[RussianWolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

you are a man I truly envy.




largely agree, but I kind of see where he's coming from too. If there's more like him and I who simply are not logging in, then we don't impact the buckets, anyhow. But if a dedicated Stock Bucket would bring a group of people back, I'm not sure there's enough of a pool left to worry about diluting.

I freely admit, if I could jump into a dedicated QP Stock Mech MM, Level 1 Tech, no Quirks, I'd fire up my client again, right now.

The problem is....are there actually enough players who feel likewise to support it? That I cannot honestly say, but I do see where he is coming from.

The Current Stock mode is a good example of too little, too late, what with need private matches, premium time, set crap up in advance, etc....

For a lot of people, it's still either too much hassle or not realistic with their day to day life. I for one need legit QP.

*shrugs*

how about a bucket that rotates through different play modes once a month.

This month its "Stock Mode"
Next month its "Free-For-All Mode"
The third "XYZ Mode"
And so on

This would allow them to experiment and find out from the public player base which modes need to become part of the standard rotation. Info they will never get when they hide things behind a paywall and/or make them non cbill/xp matches that many refuse to play.

I don't think comparing other buckets to the old 12v12 bucket is very fair either as it was restricted specifically to team size which is very hard to maintain for any length of time and sometimes hard to even achieve at all for 12mans. It was empty, yes, but I think it had more to do with that difficulty rather than actual popularity. And the few teams that could muster and hold a 12 man together were also the comp teams which in turn drove out the non-comp teams.

[Chuanhao]

Imperius, on 05 October 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

You already have Solaris is called quick play. Also you have a leaderboard. Just saying... go them tiger!

Nope, I really mean SOLARIS. ALL vs ALL. And not be penalized for team damage

RussianWolf, on 06 October 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

how about a bucket that rotates through different play modes once a month.

This month its "Stock Mode"
Next month its "Free-For-All Mode"
The third "XYZ Mode"
And so on

Instead of fixed monthly stipulations, I would rather we have opt-in events that do what you suggested.

If the next event is stockmode-only and those who want can do so, and those that don't want can stick to "normal" game modes, why not? This overcomes the problem of a permanent dilution of the player base across too many modes since it is not permanent.

So..

Stockmode Event
Solaris Event

Etc.

[SWANN]

Imperius, on 05 October 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

All I'm saying is AI is made for the lowest common denominator. Then they bump it up to give the more skilled a slight challenge.

lowest common denominator? Are you seriously suggesting that people who prefer PVP over PVE are somehow more discriminating? What? Please enlighten us as to your sophisticated tastes... Or am I correct in assuming you have no idea what that phrase actually means?

Not to mention you're operating on a rather sophist supposition. You're assuming that games with AI are developed to pander to the lowest common denominator. No they aren't. They're mostly developed for games with a narrative, so if you're looking for a game that is already pandering to the lowest common denominator; that is, the contextless, senseless PVP deathmatch, then look no further, you have already found it in MWO.

Edited by SWANN, 06 October 2016 - 06:58 AM.

[MrMadguy]

I guess, the only thing, that can save MWO from complete fail now - is implementation of Deathmatch mode. Just because in Deathmatch it doesn't matter, how often you are being two-shot by OP Meta 'Mechs.

[Hunka Junk]

My third answer:

Looking at all of these posts, I think people would open up their wallets if there were a larger player base.

Unfortunately, the steam release was really the moment to aggressively pursue that, and with FP released as it was in that same window, that opportunity was squandered. Not being descended from TT, I didn't even know this game existed until it appeared on steam.

One thing is for sure, EVERYONE who uses the internet knows about WoT and WoW. Their promotion borders on annoying, but it gets the job done. And just as WoW siphons players from here, I think it's proof that there ARE more people out there who would like the pace of MWO, but do they even know about it?

[RussianWolf]

Hunka Junk, on 06 October 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

My third answer:

Looking at all of these posts, I think people would open up their wallets if there were a larger player base.

Unfortunately, the steam release was really the moment to aggressively pursue that, and with FP released as it was in that same window, that opportunity was squandered. Not being descended from TT, I didn't even know this game existed until it appeared on steam.

One thing is for sure, EVERYONE who uses the internet knows about WoT and WoW. Their promotion borders on annoying, but it gets the job done. And just as WoW siphons players from here, I think it's proof that there ARE more people out there who would like the pace of MWO, but do they even know about it?

Marketing was the job of IGP. When PGI bough them out, we thought it would be good for the game development-wise. Marketing, however was completely forgotten (no new mech commercial vids, no ads out on the net, etc.).Now, as far as I'm concerned, the development has stagnated as well, so we are left with a PIG.

Edited by RussianWolf, 06 October 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[lazytopaz]

Things that would open my wallet (for mech packs/buying more mc)

Expanding current equipement/weaponry, omnipods, module, engine, etc list with new things (like modular armor, laser AMS, light fusion engines, rotary auto cannons, etc) - cbills only cost ofc.

Expand existing game modes to include AI allies/enemies that have dynamic objectives that include escort/defend/attack/etc - e.g. column of vehicles starts somewhere and wants to get somewhere bonus rewards/points when/if they do.

Melee, gripping, bending knees/lowering your posture by buttons, inverse kinematics (or whatsisname)

Ading socketed customization items for cbills/mc to stick on/to your mech e.g. you want a different shape of a shield on your shield arm on Centurion or maybe a different bear head shape on your Kodiak or skulls on chains swinging from belt on the Atlas - cbills/mc from caches/random reward after match.

More maps, ability to chose which maps you want to cycle through. E.g when I'm playing brawler Atlas I'd really like to avoid popping up alpine peaks or polar highlands while sporting deep black camo.
Ability to choose which camo I want to pop up in from a set of camos card deck that I've set before queue.

And increased presence in the internet. This game is by far the least known game of that type out there (similar/closely related - WoT, etc)

Other than that I'll keep on enjoying this game every night after work until I either loose whatever is left of the faith for this game or they keep on pumping out more stupid decisions like FW/FP focus, minimap changes, ED.

This game needs more attention and needs to have easier entry point. More cbills/free mechs/bigger mechbay for newbies, vast and ingame accessible knowledge base with tooltips that have extensive and TL;DR explanations to anything you mouse over.

[LordKnightFandragon]

RestosIII, on 05 October 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

At this point, I'm getting extremely bored of PvP games. Sure, it's fun to fight other players to match wits, but usually you get either potatoes or someone that is one with the machine spirit when playing instead. So I'm sitting here playing almost solely co-op PvE games, since at least there, as long as the AI is balanced, you can have fun without feeling like your chances of winning are based on the whims of an uncaring god.

That, and I get stressed out enough by bad teammates in PvP that I want to strangle them. If you have bad teammates in PvE, they're a liability, but PvE environments are usually chill enough that you can laugh their terrible plays off instead of feeling like that person is actively trying to make your day worse.


TL;DR, PGI please give PvE so I can have fun again.

Precisely why ive stopped PVPing myself. Its not that I CANT PVP or im afraid of it. Im tired of getting losses based on the team you get. Its like, so im not amazing, but if im going to lose, I want it to be a good, close, hard fought battle. The 10-12s, 11-12s, those are fights worth having, those are losses worth taking, but anything less then about 8-12, those are losses where something went wrong. The 8-12s arent even common, the common is 3-12, 2-12, 0-12, over in 2 minutes, over in 4 minutes, over before you even get to fire a shot. The games where your assault mechs arent even firing yet and its 0-5......

Im tired of that **** in games. I want to get into the game and play it. ITs why we play games right? Not to just get a walking simulator, if I wanted what I get in PVP, I can just go into the academy or training grounds. I have as much fun there as I do actually in battles in not only this game, but any PVP environment anymore.

[Clownwarlord]

This reminds me last night I was piloting a Cheeto (6 small pulses and ECM). For this event lights have just been bad for ma and I will admit I am horrible in a light mech. But anyway last night I dropped in a match and both teams started to NASCAR on Frozen City. I caught up with the enemy rear and killed one mech and by this time my team had been caught by the enemy team. So I tried to continue to pick off rim brawlers (mechs setting just outside of mixing it up), and one of them is a Kodiak. I pissed him off got him to chase and then got behind him and finished him off. Sadly by that point the match was over with a loss I died and then my last team pug died.

But before the last team pug died I said, "Sorry it is my fault we lost because I left you all alone." Being the smart @$$ that I am I even left it for all to see. Many agreed it was my one lone cheeto that did 600 damage and got 2 out of the teams 3 kills that caused the loss. So yeah if I can accept a loss so you can you butter cup, suck it up.

[Nemesis Duck]

Imperius, on 05 October 2016 - 08:22 PM, said:

Yup PVP you gotta play the best to compete if you want to win. I mean really who plays a game to lose?

I think this goes against the Russter's mode of thinking as well, at least in the past I've noticed their moves to try and make different styles of play as viable as PPFLD builds to add variety to gameplay. Now with the esports drive I'm not so sure this is the case anymore.

[Nemesis Duck]

Hunka Junk, on 06 October 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

My third answer:

Looking at all of these posts, I think people would open up their wallets if there were a larger player base.

Unfortunately, the steam release was really the moment to aggressively pursue that, and with FP released as it was in that same window, that opportunity was squandered. Not being descended from TT, I didn't even know this game existed until it appeared on steam.

One thing is for sure, EVERYONE who uses the internet knows about WoT and WoW. Their promotion borders on annoying, but it gets the job done. And just as WoW siphons players from here, I think it's proof that there ARE more people out there who would like the pace of MWO, but do they even know about it?

I agree, the growth potential from a steam release wasn't realized. For me it's more evidence that PGI isn't really into this game.

Edited by Nemesis Duck, 06 October 2016 - 12:36 PM.