163 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

BattleBunny, on 04 October 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

Pls leave solo queue for solo players.

The damage 2 skilled players can do dropping into solo Q is massive.

Ahh, but won't it be grand to read more solo special snowflakes complaints that, this time, the evil TWO MAN group has to be nerf'd.

[Davers]

adamts01, on 06 October 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

I used to drop in group que and spend a lot of money on this game along with my brother. We always played lights. As soon as the tonnage limits hit we stopped group que. Once you get out of scrub tier, tonnage matters, and our combined 40-70 tons just couldn't carry compared to the 150-200 tons our counterparts brought. He straight up quit the game, I stuck around a few more months before I eventually left to play something more friendly to a 2-man. So now we're throwing cash at other games, running around in a tricked out Liberator on Indar. So there you go, one example a 2-man that was suffering in group que and ended up quitting the game over it.

You are quoting me out of context. The person I was speaking with put forth the notion that VOIP has no effect on winning games.

You purposefully dropped massively underweight in a mode that is balanced by tonnage. Not sure what to say.

I just want to repeat this: I am not saying this is a horrible idea, but when people insist that VOIP, drop coordination, and teamwork experience mean absolutely nothing I have to say they are wrong. Not to mention PGI already gave us actual data that proves beyond argument that being in a 2 man group increases your chance to win. If we can't talk about this honestly there isn't a point to discussing it.

[Troutmonkey]

2 per groups only.
1 per team, and only if each team gets one.
Tonnage limit so no double 100 tonners

2 man groups can be placed into group or solo, wherever they fit

/sorted

[Kotzi]

+ Soloplayers can check if they dont want to play against two man groups. Have fun waiting.

[Davers]

Kotzi, on 06 October 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

+ Soloplayers can check if they dont want to play against two man groups. Have fun waiting.

The 2 man groups or the solo players?

[adamts01]

Davers, on 06 October 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

You are quoting me out of context. The person I was speaking with put forth the notion that VOIP has no effect on winning games.

You purposefully dropped massively underweight in a mode that is balanced by tonnage. Not sure what to say.

I just want to repeat this: I am not saying this is a horrible idea, but when people insist that VOIP, drop coordination, and teamwork experience mean absolutely nothing I have to say they are wrong. Not to mention PGI already gave us actual data that proves beyond argument that being in a 2 man group increases your chance to win. If we can't talk about this honestly there isn't a point to discussing it.

Sorry for quoting you out of context. I just check in on the forums from time to time and didn't read everything. I absolutely agree that having the ability to talk, doesn't mean that the coordination of that random team can have close to that of a real group. Current pug que is proof that VOIP doesn't mean much. It's pretty crazy how adamantly some people refuse to work together in such a team oriented game. I do agree that having a 2-man increases your chance of winning, but if each team each had a single 2-man, and that number was always balanced, it's a tossup again. But even now, I've seen enough 2-mans from my own groups on TS to know that most of the time it's not that game changing. I had some friends I'd randomly run in to in solo que before, as I'm sure you have, and we've been the only two using voip and weren't able to pull out a win. 2 out of 12 just isn't near the influence a 4-man had during 8v8 days, yet people still bring up those times like we'd have a repeat. As for going in under-tonned, yeah, but both of us only liked light mechs, and as we're on different continents, video games are one of the few things we can still do together. We tried to make it work, got sick of going up against nothing but assaults and heavies, and quit MWO.

When considering the overall health of the game, I really think 2-mans should be let in. Group que isn't a friendly place, the tonnage system sucks, most people aren't in big units, and groups many times can't even find matches. The social aspect of online gaming should be a priority, and the community refusing to use voip and the lack of lobbies or world chat doesn't give us any social interaction. Just a few players aside, a single 2-man per side wouldn't be that game breaking, and it would allow 2 casual friends to not be forced to run heavies+ and fight pre-mades. At the end of the match, they should even show who the 2-mans were per side, so if it's some comp player they could be ridiculed by the community if they do nothing but club seals. I honestly don't think most of the top players would do that either, they either care about their reputations too much or are cool guys who are genuinely interested in the game being competitive.

Troutmonkey, on 06 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

2 per groups only.
1 per team, and only if each team gets one.
Tonnage limit so no double 100 tonners

2 man groups can be placed into group or solo, wherever they fit

/sorted

I liked, you post at first, then un-liked it because I like running as a pair of lights and didn't want to discriminate against a pair of assaults, but if they like maxing tonnage anyway, then they fit right in and are needed in group que. Long story short, I like your post.

[Clownwarlord]

I am for only 2 man groups in quick play, just get rid of group que because we already have faction wafare which allows 12 mans, 11 mans, and so on.

Boom 1 bucket bites the dust!!!

[Kotzi]

Rejoice my friend, there wont be any faction warfare queue soon. But really nice way to say screw you guys who have more than 1 friend and wanting to quickplay. Thats the spirit.

[Clownwarlord]

Kotzi, on 06 October 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

Rejoice my friend, there wont be any faction warfare queue soon. But really nice way to say screw you guys who have more than 1 friend and wanting to quickplay. Thats the spirit.

Why you so angry?


OK, so if we got rid of group cue and turned solo cue into quick play cue (which allows 2 person groups). We would still have Faction Warfare which allows any size group. A two person would be treated as a tier 1 of course when match making comes to it so no big issue there (cost for wanting to run a group in quick play). This would actually help Faction Warfare, because those who want to play with their multiple butt buddies still can with Faction Warfare.

Furthermore if you do not like playing Faction Warfare because of the objectives well guess what PGI said in their last NGNG pod cast they plan to change it so you are getting quick play modes in Faction Warfare but with 4 MECHS!!! So why you mad bro?

[RussianWolf]

Suko, on 05 October 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

You mean when the max team size was 8 and there was no in-game voip? Hardly a fair comparison. Also, we're talking about a single 2 man team per side, not up to 50% of the team (or all) being comprised of pre-mades.

Well, I also recall the Lance Challenge and teams like Lords rolling through killing the entire Opfor in less than 2 minutes with minimal input from the other two lances (my lance did less than 200 damage combined before Lords killed all 12 of them)

Small groups of coordinated players can still be devastating.

[Ghogiel]

Clownwarlord, on 06 October 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

A two person would be treated as a tier 1 of course when match making comes to it so no big issue there (cost for wanting to run a group in quick play).

This would be one of the only comprimises where I wouldn't be staunchly against it> All 2 mans are T1 no matter what tier they are in (people on cadet bonus could be allowed to 2man as well with out any downside... except it wouldn't be worth the dev time to impliment compared to the payoff/use it would have.

If that was done any complaints people make that instead of getting QP easy mode 2man farm can be dismissed outright because 2man easy mode farm isn't what people are after when they wanted 2mans in QP.

[Mystere]

Suko, on 05 October 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

You mean when the max team size was 8 and there was no in-game voip? Hardly a fair comparison. Also, we're talking about a single 2 man team per side, not up to 50% of the team (or all) being comprised of pre-mades.

Sigh. I was referring to the mass exodus that ensued when groups were forced to a maximum of 4.

Are you 100% certain and without a doubt that a mass exodus will not occur again if 2-mans are forced on solo players?

I sure hope your wallet is fat enough to compensate for the departure of any players disgruntled by such an action.

Edited by Mystere, 06 October 2016 - 07:29 AM.

[Davers]

RussianWolf, on 06 October 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

Well, I also recall the Lance Challenge and teams like Lords rolling through killing the entire Opfor in less than 2 minutes with minimal input from the other two lances (my lance did less than 200 damage combined before Lords killed all 12 of them)

Small groups of coordinated players can still be devastating.

Yeah you really got to hustle if you have a group like Lords on your team or the match will be over before you can do much.

[RobarGK]

I'm all for 2 man (and only 2 man) groups in quick play. It's pretty impossible to get someone new into this game since if you group up you are as likely as not going to get them slaughtered. At least in the pug queue they have a chance to find other bad players. Just make it so there have to be an equal amount of two person groups. Then balance issues are solved.
Any larger groups are way more of a problem, but a two person on each side will hardly hurt the gameplay.

[Davers]

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that having a 2 man on each side will "balance out" when the direct evidence provided by PGI clearly states that it doesn't, and 2 man groups win more often than solo players.

Then that guy I quoted brings up LoL as an example of how integrating group and solo que is totally fine- completely ignoring how Riot recently apologized for "shattering the player's trust" by doing it, and all the threads about how its pointless dropping against all the units on VOIP.

[Ghogiel]

RobarGK, on 06 October 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

I'm all for 2 man (and only 2 man) groups in quick play. It's pretty impossible to get someone new into this game since if you group up you are as likely as not going to get them slaughtered.

Hopefully it'll still be like that if they are treated like T1 for MMing.

[RussianWolf]

Davers, on 06 October 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:

Yeah you really got to hustle if you have a group like Lords on your team or the match will be over before you can do much.

yep, we blinked and it was pretty much over....

On the bright side, we were on the winning team.

[Suko]

Davers, on 06 October 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that having a 2 man on each side will "balance out" when the direct evidence provided by PGI clearly states that it doesn't, and 2 man groups win more often than solo players.

You are saying 2-man teams will win more than solos. But, if every match is GUARANTEED to have a single 2-man group on each team, then this is balanced out and there is no advantage given to either side regarding groups per team.

I honestly don't know what to tell you. If you don't understand this concept, then I don't think anyone's words will be able to explain it to you in a way you will understand.

I don't mean this as an insult. I mean it as a statement. I struggled with some subjects in college that despite everyone's efforts, no one could explain it to me. Eventually via my own studying it "clicked" and I get it. Perhaps this is the case for you. *shrugs*

Edited by Suko, 06 October 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

It would balance out only if the two-man groups were of equal ability. But if one were a pair if experienced players and the other were newcomers then it wouldn't be balanced at all.

[SmokingPuffin]

Davers, on 06 October 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

Then that guy I quoted brings up LoL as an example of how integrating group and solo que is totally fine- completely ignoring how Riot recently apologized for "shattering the player's trust" by doing it

Riot didn't apologize for duos in solo queue. They apologized for a system they called "dynamic queue", and the fix was to restore the old way (of solo+duo queue) for diamond and master league ranked play.

Dynamic queue was a system designed to get players their preferred role in the game. It still exists for lower level play, and works well enough when you're not trying to be super competitive. There were ways to exploit it to get favorable matchups in the high end of the queue, though, so it had to go for competitive balance reasons.

You can read more about this here:
http://na.leagueofle...d-future-league

The Amazing Atomic Spaniel, on 06 October 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

It would balance out only if the two-man groups were of equal ability. But if one were a pair if experienced players and the other were newcomers then it wouldn't be balanced at all.

It strikes me that you can matchmake for this quite easily. A given duo doesn't get to play until another duo of similar skill shows up in the queue, then they get paired into the same game.

Maybe really super strong duos would have high queue times, but that seems like the worst outcome you could get and that doesn't sound that bad to me.