97 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Flyby215, on 07 October 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Recently I'm finding wins/losses come in waves. On a downtrend, I can certainly hit up 10-15 losses in a row. On an uptrend it's quite the opposite, 10-15 wins in a row. Oddly, my sinusoidal wave is always on an opposite phase from BulletSponge.

That certainly used to happen to me when Elo was the matchmaking system.

I even had a graph that showed a spookily perfect sinusoidal wave which seemed to kick in whenever my wins got 100 in front of my losses.

[Bishop Steiner]

Appogee, on 07 October 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

That certainly used to happen to me when Elo was the matchmaking system.

I even had a graph that showed a spookily perfect sinusoidal wave which seemed to kick in whenever my wins got 100 in front of my losses.

that was my Elo Experience. I didn't catalog it like I probably should have, but I found I was on a constant wave... win 15 or so out of 20, usually in stomps, the lose 15 or so out of 20, also in stomps. Initially, with PSR I found it actually was less pronounced, but it seems like every month after October or so last year, I have seen a continuing downward trend. My KDr, avg DMG, etc are about the same, but my W/L and XP have definitely been going down.

Like I said, finally about April or May of this year... is got to the point where it didn't matter if I did 6 kills and 1000 dmg... my team still lost 9 times out of 10. Try to give some direction, point out weak spots, focus fire, etc, in Voip and Chatbox both..and nobody listens.

[TechChris]

Man......
Been a lot these MM "sucks" posts lately! (Not calling OP a whiner or anything, just a generalization)

On one hand we have an event going, so that sure as hell ain't helping anything, we all know what happens to game play soon as an event goes up.

But I digress, back to the topic at hand. Honestly I'm surprised I haven't read anyone make this argument yet!? (Though I may have missed it)

How I think this all pans out is this way. You raise up the ranks in tiers, get to be good old Tier 1, is what it is. Supposedly MM is supposed to try in at least match up rankings to some degree, so for sake of my argument lets make this hypothetical.

You are now Tier 1, queue up for a match, eventually drop in said match. On your team there is you and 3 other tier 1s (for sake of this hypothetical lets assume tier equals actual skill not just grinded potatos) so supposedly we can assume there's 4 tier 1s on the enemy team. MM has to fill in the rest of your team from whats available out there these days. ( insert random low player count/event going/etc jokes here)
That leaves 8 other players on each team that could qualify for potato status.
Match begins and you all go about doing your stompy mech thing on way to usual spot for that map.
Now's where I believe the "magic" happens. Depending on where each teams tier 1s and potatos lined up, who pushed first, who got better terrain, etc........engagement begins and match gets "decided".

Who's tier 1s got to "match off" against who's potatos first? Cause we all know how snowballing works by now.
I don't care if your the greatest player ever, with the next three standing right beside, if your team ends up in an engagement where the enemies tier 1s have access to shoot your potatos but you don't get to shoot the enemys potatos.....guess who wins??? 4 mechs versus 10 (or however it goes down) your not gonna have a good time no matter how great you are. Because now its your 4 tier 1s alone versus the enemys 4 tier 1s plus backup weaponry and armor/shields to use.

So people can make whatever jokes they want about "your the common denominator in all your losses" but you have to account for other 23 people on that field. Even if your tier 1, if you have to face off against another tier 1 but he/she's got 3 potato buddies to tear up your back while your at it because all your potato buddies are already hashbrowns....guess who wins????

In the end, in my opinion, on average (there's always outliers, "miracles", n well done come backs n stuff) it just comes down to who's team gets to "cut the fat off" the enemy team first. Who's potatos got caught first? Apply snowball effect from there. Cause even if you are a truly skilled player, if your teammates get cutdown around you/are more potato then the enemy team..........well!

So be the best player ya wanna be, make jokes about "common denominator is you", but in the end the "worlds best player" will pretty much always lose to "worlds best player with more remaining potato backup".

Edited by TechChris, 07 October 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[Leeroy Jenkin]

Appogee, on 07 October 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Here's another reason I don't think the "you are always the problem" argument holds up.

In those 13 losses, I did the highest damage, or at least a top-3 damage, in every match. I didn't keep track of the kills, but I'd honestly say I did one minimum, two on average, and 3 a few times.

I'm not leeroying in. I'm not hiding. I'm intelligently using cover, keeping up my rate of fire. Relaying intel to the rest of the team, even.

And yet, I can't win a match...?

Hey.... watch it buddy..... its not my fault

btw, I just came off a 14 game winning streak.....

Edited by Leeroy Jenkin, 07 October 2016 - 12:39 PM.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 October 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Problem with that....

Is there is a reason a lot of people do play QP... freedom. Time commitments, even TBH the difficulty of finding a group one likes. Since Hardcorps fell apart, I've had invites from quite a few units, and dropped with several. A lot were good team, good peoples.... but just didn't have that click, or chemistry I had with my old crew.

CGBI (who I am a member of on my Alt) even has had enough upheaval over the last year that it's lost a lot of that feel, and limits one's potential desire to log into TS, and join a group.

Also, while not an issue with every unit, sometimes? You just want to DROP. Not sit there while Bob makes "one more tweak" in Mechlab.

And it's not a "Just join a unit" issue.... I went all of 2015 solo, and while there were streaks here or there, in general, had a blast in QP. In fact, I loved the chaotic never know what you're going to get nature.

That dynamic has demonstrably, undeniably changed, post Steam. I don't blame it all on the Steam Noobs, etc... but as the stream of experienced long time players keeps heading out of the door, the MM only has these newer, "solo rambos", etc and all that to fill buckets from.

It does make a difference. Joining a unit doesn't actually FIX the core issue. That's liek going to a restaurant with a terrible menu, and horrible food... and because they have ONE thing they do well, saying ti's all good. The restaurant is still bad, and still going to go out of business if they don't fix their core issues.

No disagreement on those points.

However, while I still drop solo when I just want to try a new (crappy) mech or level something - the fun is quickly replaced by frustration at the absolute awfulness of like 85% of the teams I'm on and the teams I face.


So I can either log off the game, or I can drop with my unit and actually enjoy myself.


I've been playing online games for...a long time now. I often flip between being a solo-only guy (as I have 3 kids and not that much free time) and joining groups.


Games where I join groups, have fun with others and yap on TS or Ventrillo are the games I tend to stick with much longer and enjoy much more overall - YMMV.


The OP's issue is one all of us face solo dropping, so I can only give advice based on what has worked for me and managed to keep me interested in this game - because it's not actually the game that gets me down it's the population/mm/playerbase issue.

Edited by Ultimax, 07 October 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Imperius]

WarHippy, on 07 October 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Some people have always wanted PVE, some don't want it at all, and some don't care either way. PVE is also pretty irrelevant to the OPs problems.

By the way how old is that pic? It certainly isn't recent given the match scores and what not.

It's quite old and I haven't even played MWO since feb. Just because it's old does not show the relevance of mm purposely screwing you to lose. That was a pic back during the worst of the worst ELO MM. It really never got any better.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Alistair Winter, on 07 October 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Best way to avoid losing streaks is to join a good unit. But yeah, as someone who pugs 99% of the time, losing streaks are brutal. As the number of players continues to drop, matchmaker is putting more and more potatoes in the stew.

Ham and Potato soup, yumm....I think......well, not the kind they serve in games....

[AlphaToaster]

TechChris gets it.

When I manage to login and drop into QP (which is not as much lately /shrug ) I check out if I recognize any names on the other team and try to prioritize the threats. 1000 damage loss games mean nothing if its 1000 damage to the wrong mechs. Sometimes 100 damage to the right mech can shut down the other teams ringer.

[Leeroy Jenkin]

AlphaToaster, on 07 October 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

TechChris gets it.

When I manage to login and drop into QP (which is not as much lately /shrug ) I check out if I recognize any names on the other team and try to prioritize the threats. 1000 damage loss games mean nothing if its 1000 damage to the wrong mechs. Sometimes 100 damage to the right mech can shut down the other teams ringer.

+1.....same here

[Deathlike]

Appogee, on 07 October 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

If there's an equal chance of winning or losing, the probability of losing 13 times in a row is 0.25%.

This makes me think there's some other dynamic at work here.

It's simple really.

Since PSR is designed with an upward bias, every potato that you thought would stay in lower tiers don't always stay there. The real potatoes would continue to wonder why the MM has tortured them, but your situations is closer to that everyone in your group is mostly disorganized and closer to casual than serious.

Outside of playing in organized groups (which is still the optimal way of reducing this problem), sometimes it makes sense to take a break while playing the game. There is something to one's mentality when you get a string of losses... sometimes you play like garbage and you don't quite realize it until you switch it up a little. It doesn't help when grinding XP for a mech, but it's better than pounding your head against the wall.

Edited by Deathlike, 07 October 2016 - 12:56 PM.

[FupDup]

[Appogee]

Queek Head Taker, on 07 October 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Aww I'm the op I'm.teir 1 and I can't always win, just shows tier 1 can have **** players! It's ok op I'm sure when you get older you'll lose alot more in life this is just warming you up.fir that

Do you really believe that being concerned about "13 consecutive losses" is the same as needing "to always win"?

I may be losing matches, but at least I am retaining my IQ.

Edited by Appogee, 07 October 2016 - 01:04 PM.

[Davers]

Wrathful Scythe, on 07 October 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

Many Posts and no one mentions the "the only constant is you..." phrase. Wonderous.

Appogee is one of *us*

[Appogee]

FupDup, on 07 October 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

I wish that fracking Atlas was in my matches. I'd totally follow him

[Dee Eight]

Appogee, on 07 October 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

... you experience your 13th straight loss, having spawned on Alpine Domination, on the side of the map that always wins ... but your PUG team loses 3-12.

Seriously.

I woke up this morning thinking "Great! I'll get to play a lot of MWO today!" I end the day wondering why I even bother to play any more when I can't even get a 2XP on a Mech.

Just stop following the sheep to the circle on that map... go for the BIG flank....its a lot more exciting.

[Bulletsponge0]

Flyby215, on 07 October 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

My innate need to not go to bed on a bad match has had me watching a sunrise or two...

Is this a daily thing for you Appogee? Recently I'm finding wins/losses come in waves. On a downtrend, I can certainly hit up 10-15 losses in a row. On an uptrend it's quite the opposite, 10-15 wins in a row. Oddly, my sinusoidal wave is always on an opposite phase from BulletSponge.

Perhaps today you will rack up a lot of good matches?

Unless we are grouped....

[Alienized]

...when even the worst players without any sense for tactic or teamplay just have to hop into a kdk-3 and shine bright.
done with the crap this game has become. thank god i didnt buy a bushwacker or summoner hero as planned. what a stupid mistake it would have been.

not bought a thing for this game since a year and never will do if there wont be a capable company for this game, fixing all the things PGI fked up so massively.

[Roughneck45]

TechChris, on 07 October 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

In the end, in my opinion, on average (there's always outliers, "miracles", n well done come backs n stuff) it just comes down to who's team gets to "cut the fat off" the enemy team first. Who's potatos got caught first? Apply snowball effect from there. Cause even if you are a truly skilled player, if your teammates get cutdown around you/are more potato then the enemy team..........well!

So be the best player ya wanna be, make jokes about "common denominator is you", but in the end the "worlds best player" will pretty much always lose to "worlds best player with more remaining potato backup".

Hahahaha love it.

Whenever I feel frustrated towards pugs I try to remind myself that I can't play the game for them, so the options are carry harder or calm down lol.

Edited by Roughneck45, 07 October 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[Groutknoll]

Appogee, on 07 October 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

I wish that fracking Atlas was in my matches. I'd totally follow him

heh, I always thought it was a victor from back when jj/ppc/ac5 was the meta. never looked that close at the mech

[Gamuray]

Appogee, on 07 October 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

I wish that fracking Atlas was in my matches. I'd totally follow him

Well, that or be dragged behind like everyone else. I mean, look at that hill climb angle! Ain't nobody following up that stuff! Especially not when they get hung up on those birds!