220 replies to this topic

[Dino Might]

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

Common mistake of all Light pilots - overestimating their value. Mech, that costs 1/3 of Assault 'Mech's engine, shouldn't be as viable, as Assault 'Mech. MWO - is MechSim, not MMO. If you play Light 'Mech and you openly attack heavier 'Mechs - you're supposed to die. If you want to play this game this way - then you've chosen wrong game. Go play MMOs and stealth actions. As simple, as that.

But please do keep bringing out this boring line of reasoning. Better yet, do tell us how this is a simulation. A simulation does NOT adjust performance of the units for balance purposes. Balance is entirely up to the playerbase to establish. A simulation environment is built for accuracy - proper physics, expected real life performance of systems, fully modeled controls and interactions. We don't have any of that. It's partly impossible because Battletech is make believe. It's hard to simulate something that has so little basis in reality.

If you want to learn about a simulator, go look at Digital Combat Simulator. There you can learn about what that word means. Even in that game, there are plenty of times I've taken an F5 up against an SU-27 and won. As Richtofen demonstrated, "it's the man, not the plane." Just because you get embarrassed by lights doesn't mean they're OP. If they are, post up your Locust stats for all of us to see how incredibly easy they are to use. Go ahead...I'm waiting, just like the last time you got into this type of conversation and still didn't produce.

Edited by Dino Might, 13 October 2016 - 02:58 AM.

[Paigan]

sfmain, on 12 October 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

locusts have no incentive to stop harassing a mech there need to be at least a leg nerf.


for the moment ill just tab out if they start bothering me.

Do you like cooking your dog and your family?
Don't be a psychopath, use punctuation!

(Seriously, it's cumbersome to read unstructured stuff like that. I would even say it's rude to burden others with reading it multiple times until they figured out the intended structure themselves.)

On the content level:
Every time a locust attacks me, he gets hit by some serious laz0rs and runs as fast as he can.
Can't see the problem.

Edited by Paigan, 13 October 2016 - 03:03 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Show us on the mech doll where the light mech touched you.

[Bandilly]

Hans Brackhaus, on 12 October 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

Maybe it does, but all I can speak from is my own experience and that was the first time I've heard anyone in chat blame a loss on the enemy having too many of a particular weight class. That it was lights just ties into my comments about hearing the complaints about them in-game.

And I've never played in the group queue so I don't have any idea what it's like.

If you only play solo queue then both sides are matched equally category wise. If the other side has 4 lights then your side has 4 lights. Tonnage isn't taken into account so one sides mechs might be a bit heavier than the other sides, but they will be from the same category at least. Basically there is no such thing in solo queue as the other team having more lights or assaults than your team...that doesn't mean it doesn't become unbalanced quickly as the potatoes get dropped in two seconds, but that is a different matter.

Group queue uses tonnage limit by group size, so in group queue it's entirely possibly for the sides to be completely unbalanced class wise.

[TWIAFU]

sfmain, on 12 October 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

locusts have no incentive to stop harassing a mech there need to be at least a leg nerf.


for the moment ill just tab out if they start bothering me.

/pointat

/laugh

Come on, you can do better then a tab out temper tantrum.

At least you have fallen in lock step with your other special snowflakes and want a nerf of what killed you.

Bombast, on 12 October 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Or, when a Locust shows up, just run to a friendly so they can see whats going on. They go down pretty fast when two or more people can track them.

That is to much like teamwork in a teamwork based MMO.

Complain and nerf is far easier, less brain power required.

[meteorol]

vibrant, on 13 October 2016 - 01:20 AM, said:

please do bear in mind, that what you spectate isn't actually what happened according to either player. It's the server's version of it states happened -- because of lag both players would have seen it play out different. Makes it hard to say that it was an aiming issue, particularly against a fast-speed mech.

i know about the spectating desynch, but that really doesn't change anything about the "waves laserbeam literally all over the place with way too high mouse sensitivity... OMG HITREG THAT WAS ALL CT" you can see on a daily basis. The inability to hold a steady beam is clearly visible even with the desynch in place. People overestimating their aim and blaming hitreg is something pretty common in this game.

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

If you play Light 'Mech and you openly attack heavier 'Mechs - you're supposed to die.

If you play Light 'Mech and you openly attack heavier 'Mechs - you're going to die. Unless the pilot using the heavier mech is bad at playing this game.

Edited by meteorol, 13 October 2016 - 03:37 AM.

[Hans Brackhaus]

Bandilly, on 13 October 2016 - 03:13 AM, said:

If you only play solo queue then both sides are matched equally category wise. If the other side has 4 lights then your side has 4 lights. Tonnage isn't taken into account so one sides mechs might be a bit heavier than the other sides, but they will be from the same category at least. Basically there is no such thing in solo queue as the other team having more lights or assaults than your team...that doesn't mean it doesn't become unbalanced quickly as the potatoes get dropped in two seconds, but that is a different matter.

Group queue uses tonnage limit by group size, so in group queue it's entirely possibly for the sides to be completely unbalanced class wise.

As I understand it, that's the ideal way the matchmaker is supposed to work but it frequently doesn't come out that way. I've been in plenty of solo queue games where we had only one assault, for example, but the enemy had at least two if not more. And I clearly remember a game in which we had no lights at all, but my Highlander was ganked by a pair of enemy lights.

Also, as I clearly said in my first post in this topic, the game in question was four lights to one, in plain text on the scoreboard at the end of the match. That was the whole reason the guy said "we never stood a chance."

So no, the MM doesn't always work the way it's supposed to.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

El Bandito, on 12 October 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Small Lights can be annoying to hit if there is significant ping difference. I could perform much better, if my reaction time not is delayed by 0.2 second, thanks to my current ping.

My reaction time is delayed by the fact that I am 54 years old.

Just you wait until you are my age. Ping won't seem so much of a problem.

[Y E O N N E]

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

Common mistake of all Light pilots - overestimating their value. Mech, that costs 1/3 of Assault 'Mech's engine, shouldn't be as viable, as Assault 'Mech.

This opinion is not viable. The game mechanics forbid it. As soon as you let the team with lighter 'Mechs have more people than the team with heavier 'Mechs, we can have this. Until then, you'll just have to can it.

Quote

MWO - is MechSim, not MMO. There is no so called "MMO logic" here. Gnome mage in clothes shouldn't have same survivability, as Tauren Warrior in plate just for "balance purposes". The fact, that some Lights can achieve such results - is exactly due to broken balance in this game.

MWO is not a sim, and Lights don't have the same durability. By your own self-implication, you are just inept with ballistics and, apparently, lasers too. If you'd like, I'll do a 1v1 with you and you can hop into an Arctic Cheetah or a Locust and I'll play whatever I damn well please that's heavier. I promise to not use Streaks; I don't even own a Storm Crow or a Huntsman package.

Quote

PGI's incompetence has given a false hope to some players and illusory feeling, that this game actually has so called "rogue style" playstyle. It actually doesn't and isn't supposed to have. There is no "stealth" in MWO. There is no "evasion", there is no "sprint", no "vanish".

No amount of you saying it doesn't exist will make that statement true, because obviously the mechanics allow it without having to be explicit and artificial about it like crummy old-school RPGs. And who the hell are you to say it shouldn't exist?

Quote

If you play Light 'Mech and you openly attack heavier 'Mechs - you're supposed to die. If you want to play this game this way - then you've chosen wrong game. Go play MMOs and stealth actions. As simple, as that.

Nobody playing Lights openly attacks a Heavy unless said Heavy is about to die. That being said, I would die under that scenario...if you were any good at shooting. That's basically the entire problem with Lights; they die when they head-on fight nearly anything that isn't piloted by a Wendy's Large Fries.

Also, MMOs suck, universally. Hotbar combat and fake, stat-roll based mechanics are stupid. If you can't handle actual stealth through the application of motor skills, map knowledge, and situational awareness, maybe it is you who should go play an MMO.

[Kotzi]

That fact does not make Locust and fast lights imbalanced.

EDIT: Referring to the Spaniel post of course.

Edited by Kotzi, 13 October 2016 - 05:05 AM.

[3xnihilo]

I never have any trouble dying in a locust. I wish I could get some of you guys on the enemy team sometime.

[Ultimax]

sfmain, on 12 October 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

im a tier 1 playa i just call em like i see em and if anyone else is having trouble one of the best defenses is backing up against a wall

By all means, display that tier then.

Because none of the actually good players I know have any fear or issues dealing with a Locust.

Are they annoying? Yes.

Are they overpowered? LOL, no.

[adamts01]

El Bandito, on 12 October 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Small Lights can be annoying to hit if there is significant ping difference. I could perform much better, if my reaction time not is delayed by 0.2 second, thanks to my current ping.

Fox With A Shotgun, on 12 October 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

But that's more due to PGI's HSR malfunctioning when high velocity projectiles are being thrown against a fast-moving mech at close distances. I imagine that the situation would be entirely different for folks with <100 ping, opposed to >270.

MrMadguy, on 12 October 2016 - 10:01 PM, said:

Locusts are OP cuz hitreg is completely broken at close range.

I honestly feel hit-reg is better in this game than about anything else I play. Maybe PPCs aside. And the game handles ping incredibly well. I check Oceanic at 80ms, NA at 250, and often play EU with a group at 350ms. At 250 a few funny things start happening with targeting, and locking, at 350 there can be a little warping depending on the other guy's ping, but it's really not that bad. In any of those cases, I shoot lasers exactly where I want to hit. You don't have to lead or wait for the indicator to light up, just shoot where you want to hit. Their client side hit detection really nailed it. One of the few things I think they really did well on. I was pissy about my connection when I first moved to Asia from California, but after gaming with a bunch of Australians I realized it's really no big thing.

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

Common mistake of all Light pilots - overestimating their value. Mech, that costs 1/3 of Assault 'Mech's engine, shouldn't be as viable, as Assault 'Mech.

I'm absolutely fine with lights being 1/3rd as powerful and 1/3rd the cost, as long as mechs in matches aren't balanced 1:1. If we had an awesome open world or grand CW with expenditures I'd be fine with it. BUT THAT'S NOT THE GAME WE HAVE! And we'll never have that game. MWO is all about quickplay, and a light is treated exactly like an assault. I'd even be fine if lights had their combat ability nerfed to 1/3 of an assault's if they excelled at another role. But we don't have roles. All we have is deathmatch. They have to get the same damage and kills to get the same score, yet if they do half as well as an assault, bad players like you cry nerf. This game isn't complicated, there's no physics or realism in it, it's just a 12v12 deatmatch. The funny thing is that even after noobs like yourself got lights nerfed to the ground, you're still dying to them and complaining about them. It's really time to get good or shut up, you're just embarrassing yourself.

Hans Brackhaus, on 12 October 2016 - 06:21 PM, said:

Every time I see one of these threads, I am amazed by the complete disconnect between the forum and what I see in-game.
Here, people are quick to vigorously defend against any slight to light mechs and are quick to point out that lights are very fragile and "not very good."
But it boggles my mind. Is it a tier thing?

Lower tiers are full of mostly inexperienced players who can't aim yet.n tier 5 and 4, Lights and LRMs are pretty much gods. Once they get the hang of the game lights drop very quickly against anything bigger and LRMs are a joke because they can't trade with direct fire, either due to exposure or cover. There were a few outliers that were OP: Oxide, Clan Jenners, and the Cheetah a few nerfs ago. The crap thing is that every light forever gets lumped in to the same category as those three. RIP lights.

[Dogstar]

I play lights regularly but I also get annoyed by how hard it is to hit full speed lights at close range, regardless of whether I'm in another light or any other class.

Being able to move in a 30m circle at 120kph+ is ridiculous, the TT game had some quite harsh rules that restricted this kind of circling and here should be something similar in this game as there's far too much emphasis in fitting the biggest engine possible into all types of chassis.

So I'm saying that turn rate should be reduced as speed increases so that the smallest circle _any_ mech can make at high speed is something more like 90m. Which in TT terms is the difference between circling around inside a single hex compared to a circle 3 hexes across.

Light mechs are excellent at hit and run combat, can snipe reasonably well, and can dodge damage at range too. For them also to be excellent brawlers, thanks to game design issues (hitreg, collision mechanics, no melee), makes them very annoying and the more annoying a mech is the more people will call for it to be nerfed.

Edited by Dogstar, 13 October 2016 - 06:28 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

adamts01, on 13 October 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

Lower tiers are full of mostly inexperienced players who can't aim yet.n tier 5 and 4, Lights and LRMs are pretty much gods.

coming from a tier 5 guy, actually it's entirely the opposite.

lights get screwed over in t5 because none of the heavies/assaults actually do what their mechs are supposed to do - bring the pain while taking a pounding. most cower behind a rock for 10 minutes once they get splashed by a medium laser from 400m away.

from experience, t5 matches are won on the backs of the medium pilots.

if your team happens to pick off a couple of enemy stragglers early and the mediums commit to a charge together with the lights, you win. if either of those don't happen, you lose.

it's basically a coin flip.

[Spam Lanwalker]

RestosIII, on 12 October 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

Every locust pilot on the forums right now after learning you're a free kill.

Amen to this . MEEP MEEP !

[DrxAbstract]

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

Common mistake of all Light pilots - overestimating their value. Mech, that costs 1/3 of Assault 'Mech's engine, shouldn't be as viable, as Assault 'Mech.

Factually incorrect - Please stop, you're not right.

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

MWO - is MechSim, not MMO. There is no so called "MMO logic" here. Gnome mage in clothes shouldn't have same survivability, as Tauren Warrior in plate just for "balance purposes". The fact, that some Lights can achieve such results - is exactly due to broken balance in this game. PGI's incompetence has given a false hope to some players and illusory feeling, that this game actually has so called "rogue style" playstyle. It actually doesn't and isn't supposed to have.

Factually incorrect - Please stop, you're still not right.

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

There is no "stealth" in MWO. There is no "evasion", there is no "sprint", no "vanish". If you play Light 'Mech and you openly attack heavier 'Mechs - you're supposed to die. If you want to play this game this way - then you've chosen wrong game. Go play MMOs and stealth actions. As simple, as that.

Still incorrect. As usual, you mistake your opinion for fact. You're wrong, yet again... And I'm not going to bother explaining why because people have been doing that with actual facts ever since you popped up on the forums. You didnt get it then, you still dont now. I'd say arguing with you is like beating a dead horse, but the horse had intelligence.

[Kirkland Langue]

The locust is wonderful, simply because it's the perfect mech to use as an example of what "Balance" is or is not.

If you believe that every mech should be able to contribute the same damage done as every other mech, then the Locust is your example of what a light mech should be.

If you believe that heavier mechs should be more powerful than lighter mechs, then the Locust is your example of what a light mech should NOT be.

Two very contrasting points of view which PGI should have stated from the very beginning which philosophy MWO was going to be built upon. They didn't, and it is this lack of clarity that causes much drama.

[JC Daxion]

Also don't forget, some assaults, espeically if you have not unlocked elite movements, so torso twist, increses, you can't even track a good locust pilot that is up close.. One day i was piloting my victor on Polar, and i am a pretty decent player. this locust pilot was awesome, and came at me, and got so close, i couldn't even hit him with my torso weapons, and my arm weapons could not keep up fast enough to even track him to get off a shot..

I saw the locust coming, and there was an atlas not far behind me, and i rushed to him to support him.. (our team left us in the nascar dust) The locust was a small pulse build, and he just tore us up, and we both dropped.. I also was taking damage from the atlas, trying to shoot at him too! It wasn't pretty and darn annoying to say the least..

some builds on locusts, especially torso weapon assaults, with out elite unlocks, a locust is a death trap pure and simple if you don't have team support, which can happen in PUG life..


again, Best advice for a clanner, even a single SSRM6 bank is a life saver.. I have squeezed these in on more than one assault build, even light mechs if lights give you troubles.. Clan 6's are very light,, drop a couple heat sinks and deal with slightly lower sustained DPS, and cool of slightly slower.

[Y E O N N E]

Kirkland Langue, on 13 October 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

Two very contrasting points of view which PGI should have stated from the very beginning which philosophy MWO was going to be built upon. They didn't, and it is this lack of clarity that causes much drama.

IIRC, they actually did. They said this game would not be a race to Assaults, or something along those lines.