206 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

This thread just shows me I need to take another month or two break. Everyone is nit picking over minor differences yet the real issue is staring them right in the face.

The issue:
500m+ weapons are too efficient in MWO and missiles still suck.

[Dimento Graven]

mogs01gt, on 17 October 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

...

The issue:
500m+ weapons are too efficient in MWO

Yeah 500-700 meters is optimal, it's just that one side has more weapons that work inside range than the other.

Quote

and missiles still suck.

A solo missile boat's missiles are typically not immediately worrisome, granted, 2 or 3 boats focusing a single target though... Ugh. THAT, at least, is pretty much true for both Clan and IS, giving and receiving missile damage. MAYBE it's the most balanced part of the game (other than one side has missiles that at least do SOME damage under 180 meters, and of course the size/weight differences).

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 17 October 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

You've done that more than once, I don't have any screenshots, but I'm pretty sure you've even accused my unit of hacking before in a fit of rage.

The week prior to me properly sending an app to AS, we dropped pure brawl on Polar. I was in a CN9-AH, he was in his usual KGC. I can still vividly recall his hacking accusations against me when I didn't go down to his Gauss rounds, which had hit my shield arm during torso twisting rather than that open Left Torso, and I then proceeded to dismantle his CT.

It was a good drop.

[Dimento Graven]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 October 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

The week prior to me properly sending an app to AS, we dropped pure brawl on Polar. I was in a CN9-AH, he was in his usual KGC. I can still vividly recall his hacking accusations against me when I didn't go down to his Gauss rounds, which had hit my shield arm during torso twisting rather than that open Left Torso, and I then proceeded to dismantle his CT.

It was a good drop.

Got a date range? I may still have the vid and would love to review it.

[Imperius]

mogs01gt, on 17 October 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

This thread just shows me I need to take another month or two break. Everyone is nit picking over minor differences yet the real issue is staring them right in the face.

The issue:
500m+ weapons are too efficient in MWO and missiles still suck.

Range is not a weapon issue it's map design flaw.

[Y E O N N E]

Dimento Graven, on 17 October 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

Got a date range? I may still have the vid and would love to review it.

Some time between February and April, fairly certain. You and some other person were conversing in all-chat about how I must've been hacking to not go down, because to be fair you did catch my flank by surprise (whichbis why you never stop twisting in a Cent).

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 17 October 2016 - 11:53 AM.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 October 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

Some time between February and April, fairly certain. You and some other person were conversing in all-chat about how I must've been hacking to not go down, because to be fair you did catch my flank by surprise (whichbis why you never stop twisting in a Cent).

Dude, you're torso twisting.



The funny thing is that the King Crab has never really been a thing, but so much more novelty than anything.

I kinda miss the days where the Stalker was a thing before the mass Battlemaster requirkenings.

[mogs01gt]

Imperius, on 17 October 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

Range is not a weapon issue it's map design flaw.

umm no. Range weapons in MWO are too effective in close range. How is that a map problem?

[Imperius]

mogs01gt, on 17 October 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

umm no. Range weapons in MWO are too effective in close range. How is that a map problem?

Tell me which long range ones always beat out the close range weapons in all situations?

[Gas Guzzler]

mogs01gt, on 17 October 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

umm no. Range weapons in MWO are too effective in close range. How is that a map problem?

SRMs will demolish any range weapons at close range.

[Snowbluff]

Imperius, on 17 October 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Tell me which long range ones always beat out the close range weapons in all situations?

This. A PPC is like 10 damage, but ML are 5 damage and you can carry half a dozen of them for the same weight.

[Dimento Graven]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 October 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

SRMs will demolish any range weapons at close range.

Clarification: A BUNCH of SRMs will demolish any range weapons at close range.

I can do ok against someone who's only got 2 racks, but when you start going up against someone boating 4 or more... F'geddaboudit, If you survive the first salvo, you're generally dead by the second, especially late in the match after having taken damage from other 'ranged' 'mechs.

Snowbluff, on 17 October 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

This. A PPC is like 10 damage, but ML are 5 damage and you can carry half a dozen of them for the same weight.

I don't think ML's will do well beyond their max range, while a PPC can still be damaging you beyond the ML's max range range.

So for the 'all situations' aspect of his question, wasn't really met by your answer of ML's.

[El Bandito]

LordKnightFandragon, on 17 October 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

I fail to see how ED is going to stop PPC/Gauss Meta. The ED Recharges before the guns are even loaded. So, your Gauss Rifles spike 3 heat instead of 1 and your PPCs deal 20 instead of 15, no different then now. As for your target? Yeah, its missing w/e you hit.....

ED power recharges almost instantly, unless they seriously slowed it down, mine was back full before the shot registered...

Not gonna stop it but will help against it. Under ED, you are not allowed to equip more than one Gauss. Which will curtail the dual Gauss + dual CERPPC KDK-3--by far, the most threatening build. Which is a big deal, and why I singled out that build.

The goal is never to stop making people boat PPFLDs. It is to discourage everyone from doing it.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 October 2016 - 04:58 PM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 17 October 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Under ED, you are not allowed to equip more than one Gauss.

What? When the heck did that ever happen? The rule that I'm aware of is the limit of only 2x Goose on one mech.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 17 October 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

What? When the heck did that ever happen? The rule that I'm aware of is the limit of only 2x Goose on one mech.

It didn't happen, but it does make firing two Gauss and two cERPPC very hot. Doesn't matter, though, in most instances KDKs are firing the Gauss and then the PPCs, and dropping to one PPC sidesteps the issue by allowing you to boat more DHS.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 17 October 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

What? When the heck did that ever happen? The rule that I'm aware of is the limit of only 2x Goose on one mech.

You are correct. It is restricted to two. I thought it was one.

[Captain Stiffy]

razenWing, on 16 October 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

In case you don't know the newest meta, it's PPC/Gauss. First explored during world, but finally popularized with the release of Night Gyr.

Personally, I am not fond of it. If you don't like hill and corner peaking before... prepare to have this... at 600m+ for a good 5 min portion of the game.

Now, not every game is like this, but it's insane to see how many people tweak their mech to try to do this.

See PGI? This is why you don't nerf weapons based on popularized meta. Cause life will always find a way.

Dual UAC5/Dual PPC still works too. Really well.

Everyone knows that the meta is KDK-3.

[Mawai]

Mystere, on 17 October 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

I'd rather have a game focused on game modes that make balance discussions moot.

Of course if all you've got is a "Theme Park" arena shooter ...

Interesting thought

However, I can't imagine a game mode in which balance doesn't matter except when you are playing PVE. When real people are on both sides of a game, it is a fundamental requirement (in my opinion) that however that match up is formed should ideally be balanced giving each side an equal chance of winning.

As a result, some sort of balancing of any multiplayer online game is a requirement of the game and I don't see how any game mode except PVE would avoid the requirement for balance.

It could be that you are talking about splitting game modes along faction boundaries, clan vs clan, is vs is and is vs clan only so that then you would have a DIFFERENT set of balance requirements. You could choose to make clan tech stronger (which it is at the moment anyway) and then balance this somehow by giving the clans fewer mechs. The easiest balance for that would be 8 vs 12 since you could face off 2/2/2/2 vs 3/3/3/3. Or maybe the balance would be 6 clan vs 12 IS? Or even 4 vs 12 if one were using the raw TT numbers and PPFLD implementations of clan weaponry. Or perhaps balance would be achieved with 2/3/3/2 vs 3/3/3/3? But of course it is impossible to force mech distributions without incurring huge queue times so any fixed ratio of mech weight classes is not an option. So perhaps you could try forcing 2/2/2/2 vs 3/3/3/3 in the clan vs is queue but then the excess players can be placed in uneven weight class distributions in the clan vs clan and is vs is queues.

It isn't an easy problem to solve and ALL of it is related to balance no matter what choice of game mode is made.

[Felicitatem Parco]

FupDup, on 17 October 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

What? When the heck did that ever happen? The rule that I'm aware of is the limit of only 2x Goose on one mech.

FupDup is correct. You will not be able to equip 3+ Gauss under the Energy Draw system.


Edit - Ninja'd



P.S. PPC + Gauss was All the Rage when the Catapult K2 was the only thing that could equip it... years ago.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 October 2016 - 05:15 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 17 October 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

What? When the heck did that ever happen? The rule that I'm aware of is the limit of only 2x Goose on one mech.

I find the limitation of only 2 gauss on a build very offensive considering you're allowed to stack any number of every other f'ing weapon you want on a build.

And with those weapons considerably higher DPS, unless some how magically, ED is going to make it impossible to fire more than two of those alphas without instantaneous self-immolation, it's rather pointless limitation.

Considering it's only POSSIBLE to fire two gauss at a time, too, again a spurious limitation because even if someone setup a somewhat 'reasonable' Clan build with 3 gauss, they STILL aren't firing all 3 at the same time anyway.

I just don't get it. It seems absolutely unnecessary.