257 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 October 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Why do they need another tool?

Well, if you ever complain to me about PPFL, lights being underpowered, spread weapons sucking, or Boating, I'll repost that.

Changing a weapon's other stats can cause it to lose it's identity, and if you think people are pissed as it is, that would just bring another **** storm. PD is a stat that reflects total effectiveness of a weapon system.

Quote

That is the problem, a bunch of changes after it hits live. Why not iterative balance changes, small ones?

Instead we have a completely overhaul of something that maybe it wasn't perfect but it was more or less balanced (with obvious exceptions), and we have to start over again because I fear that when this new Ed (or it was Red? Or Ned? I'm confused...) hits the public server it's going to be unbalanced as hell....

Balance will be screwy at first, I agree. However, as people said, the game is pretty closed to balanced in a lot of ways. I think it will balance out again.

As for small changes, as the game is moving into a tournament system, balance changes are going to have to be done in between season to not mess with compositions and meta mid season. Either way we'll be waiting.

The good part of that is maybe a decently impactful patch will hit each season, and like the mechpacks it will shake up the meta a little to give people a reason to keep an eye on the game.

Edited by Snowbluff, 23 October 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[Dr Wubs]

I disagree!

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 23 October 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

I honestly don't care anymore.

I'll adapt and enjoy the game exactly as much as I do now if ED happens, and I'll continue having fun if it doesn't. Whatever.

NO!!! Not allowed!!! Can only be black or white, yes or no! Stop equivocating!

[Oberost]

Snowbluff, on 23 October 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Well, if you ever complain to me about PPFL, lights being underpowered, spread weapons sucking, or Boating, I'll repost that.

Changing a weapon's other stats can cause it to lose it's identity, and if you think people are pissed as it is, that would just bring another **** storm. PD is a stat that reflects total effectiveness of a weapon system.

Balance will be screwy at first, I agree. However, as people said, the game is pretty closed to balanced in a lot of ways. I think it will balance out again.

As for small changes, as the game is moving into a tournament system, balance changes are going to have to be done in between season to not mess with compositions and meta mid season. Either way we'll be waiting.

The good part of that is maybe a decently impactful patch will hit each season, and like the mechpacks it will shake up the meta a little to give people a reason to keep an eye on the game.

Do you really think that with the current tournament success there will be another one? I don't think so...

[Snowbluff]

RestosIII, on 23 October 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

'reads my old post, realizes I said the Pokebear will still be fine, has no idea why I said that and really doesn't believe it will be fine how people play it right now'

Dakka Bear I can still defend as being great though. Unlike a lot of builds post-ED, you don't have to do anything special with weapon grouping that a lot of people didn't do already with it, firing from one side, then firing from another, back and forth. If you're trying to fire all 4 of once, yes, you will have more heat than you used to after the first volley has left, and you can't double tap instantly, but honestly unless it's a guaranteed shot you should take the time to see if your first rounds are going to hit anyways and readjust your aim for the second blast in the first place, so (for me at least) if I actually ran the KDK-3 dakka bear loadout for anything besides the one time in the testing grounds and on the PTS, then put it away in disgust, I wouldn't lose any DPS. I will admit that you lose DPS in an up-close situation, but with how much it neuters most people's DPS, it is still an outlier as being the ultimate assault mech.

Yeah, I still think the KDK3 will be good, but I tend to sneak up on people and dump truck a side torso with 2 UAC10 2 UAC5 4 ERSL. With PD I won't be able to launch an 80 points alpha or straight bombard someone as quickly. It'll give people much more time to react, and their DPS shouldn't be as overwhelmed.

I do predict that builds will focus more on getting a certain amount of DPS (well, power draw/second) to maximize DPS that way, and that lights will be a little better off since PD will affect them less overall.

Oberost, on 23 October 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Do you really think that with the current tournament success there will be another one? I don't think so...

*shrugs* I'm not PGI. If they're stubborn enough, it'll probably still be around regardless of how well it works (Hi, FW!). If they're really stubborn they'll find a better way to run it.

Edited by Snowbluff, 23 October 2016 - 08:36 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

RestosIII, on 22 October 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

ED is up there with the "Lower damage for lasers if not targetting with R" levels of stupidity, and I cannot endorse it, or let it appear on the live servers without a fight. Just, no. No.

That system actually made some sense if you consider laser divergence, atmospheric interference and attenuation. Ever play with a laser pointer? The beam spreads out, the farther away it goes.

Energy draw, on the other hand, adds extra heat? That's silly. Energy draw should cause power brownouts to various systems if you draw too much, and add an additional mechanic where you can pick and choose which systems you want to shut down or turn on to balance things out.

Yeah, it'd be more keys, but it'd be like a tesla pod, and badass.

[MW222]

OK time un subscriber from thread as it has knotted it's self as per schedule. I would just like to leave everyone with one thought.

Remember how badly PGI screwed the mech with the mini map seemly deliberate hosed update?

Now the next feat du jour is ED.

Until proven other wise I will side with the ED is going to suck group.

I would really, really LIKE to be proven wrong but from past performance I doubt it.

[Mystere]

Cementi, on 22 October 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

Sorry a poll about ED is premature as we do not know the final incarnation of it.

All values on TS are subject to change as its a test server. Untill they put up a build and say "Ok guys this is the values we are planning on releasing to live. Let us know what you think." There is no point in making a poll.

Precisely.

Cementi, on 22 October 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

There is also the sad fact that the majority of the people that would vote in said poll would be uneducated on the topic and would likely vote one way or another on personal bias.

Hmm. That sounds very much like the upcoming U.S. elections. I await with bated breath -- from a long distance, of course, just in case.

Edited by Mystere, 23 October 2016 - 09:02 AM.

[Mystere]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 October 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

ED is winning because it is PGI's project and they have decided that they don't want to waste the effort just yet. Nothing more, nothing less.

And yet they junked the whole infowar PTS. As such I think it's still a toss up.

Edited by Mystere, 23 October 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[EgoSlayer]

Quote

Why ED Is Winning The War

While I'm not entirely certain on ED winning the war, the more important question is:
What War is ED winning?

If the answer is 'The war on intelligent design choices for game play balance'

Then ED is certainly winning that war.

[TLBFestus]

BLOOD WOLF, on 23 October 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

I didn't block him now did I? so what if i want to quote him for context? I don't respond to him directly, I just want to take what he said and use that for clarification on my post. do me a favor and send him a message for me to stop responding, and stop acting childish. These are grown people forums.

I LOVE THIS GUY!!!

Telling someone to stop acting childish while simultaneously asking someone else to send him a message because he "doesn't respond to him directly". Last time I saw this was back in grade school when people were passing notes around.

Excellent troll, or accidental,....it doesn't really matter, pure comedy gold.

guy0320, on 23 October 2016 - 01:24 AM, said:

I think that 99% percent of people would agree that both constitute a reduction in effectiveness of the weapon in relation to others, and that both, therefore, constitute a nerf.

Thing is you don't understand, Blood Wolf is a 1%er, and not in a good way.

Cathy, on 23 October 2016 - 03:20 AM, said:

Well I did two things after I saw this thread.

One was Report it, because I believe it a thread created to gloat, and start a flame war.

She nailed it. Someone is an attention "escort".


Finally, .....wouldn't it be nice if he decided to take his own advice a bit earlier and started now?

Quote

BloodWolfs siggy as of Oct23/16: After MWO I am done with gaming forums.

Edited by TLBFestus, 23 October 2016 - 10:18 AM.

[Snowbluff]

Mister Blastman, on 23 October 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

That system actually made some sense if you consider laser divergence, atmospheric interference and attenuation. Ever play with a laser pointer? The beam spreads out, the farther away it goes.

Energy draw, on the other hand, adds extra heat? That's silly. Energy draw should cause power brownouts to various systems if you draw too much, and add an additional mechanic where you can pick and choose which systems you want to shut down or turn on to balance things out.

Yeah, it'd be more keys, but it'd be like a tesla pod, and badass.

The mech has a rangefinder build in that works even if you aren't locked on. The ranged tuning would be perfect regardless of lockon.

PD says that a certain amount of the engine's power is devoted to the weapons. If the engine is forced to make more energy than normal, more waste heat is made.

The real logical issue with PD is that engines would have a % power used for weapons if the movement stats are anything to go by. That means mechs with larger engines should have more Power, but that would be a balancing issue.

[TLBFestus]

Was looking at another video in another thread that someone posted that suited the nature of the thread perfectly and it reminded me of this thread and another video I know. Suddenly it made sense that the OP and this video were meant for each other.

Think of BW as Tina, and everyone else as her dad when you watch this.

[Mystere]

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 October 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

I believe the control group is simply the live server. You can easily demonstrate the differences. between the two and model the same builds on both clients to get a comparison.

Just how many here do you think can isolate ED from all the other changes on the PTS and then do a quantitative comparison with the live servers?

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 October 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

unless somebody can prove that ED somehow does not do a better job at applying the penalties to all weapons then arguing against it is simply asinine, and they rather waste time writing a long post then making a video or getting someone else to make the video that demonstrates why.

Its just fact that the current system doesn't penalize mixed builds and you can make some mean high alphas, under ED they cant get around that. A dynamic system beats out a static system any day.

Once somebody actually demonstrates this to a level that is satisfactory, then I will say, you know what maybe they got a point. So far I have seen none of that, rather just some fallacious statements, and simple sentences that do nothing to demonstrate anything. mumbo jumbo

FTFY.

[guy0320]

TLBFestus, on 23 October 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

Thing is you don't understand, Blood Wolf is a 1%er, and not in a good way.

I understand that now. I would give my experience with BLOOD WOLF a 2/10. Would not try to use logic against a petulant child again.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

NO!!! Not allowed!!! Can only be black or white, yes or no! Stop equivocating!

God forbid we not get rabid about it. The horror! Must be STRONG in our convictions, even if we don't actually know what's going to happen!

After all, remember 3PV, and how totally freaked out we all were? And how it totally destroyed the game? Yup.

[Novakaine]

Ah the tears of the Clankers will provide much sodium for our popcorn.

[cazidin]

ED is better than Ghost Heat, but a Proper Heat Scale would be the best solution.

[Livaria]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

NO!!! Not allowed!!! Can only be black or white, yes or no! Stop equivocating!

**** that, it's worthwhile to understand that sometimes people can see both options as valid, I'm tired of people trying to pressure others to pick sides when it's not even within their own best interest, that would be forcing dishonesty among someone else. Apples or oranges, they both edible and can be eaten.

I myself, do see both options as valid. I don't see anything bad with the system except that *maybe* some people won't be able to adapt to such a big change. I'd rather defend ED because I'm not convinced by the public to write it off completely. It is a working system. ED, has a very potential good use, we just need to have more information on how players interact with it.

Edited by Livaria, 23 October 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Dr Wubs]

cazidin, on 23 October 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

ED is better than Ghost Heat

Same poep. Different smell.