257 replies to this topic

[Kael Posavatz]

Bud Crue, on 23 October 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Delusion?

Or is it a fantasy?

That said, I have no doubt that some find it superior to Ghost Heat. Just about anything short of Leo Showers standing on Terra as the eternal ilKhan would be.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 23 October 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Livaria, on 23 October 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

**** that, it's worthwhile to understand that sometimes people can see both options as valid, I'm tired of people trying to pressure others to pick sides when it's not even within their own best interest, that would be forcing dishonesty among someone else. Apples or oranges, they both edible and can be eaten.

I myself, do see both options as valid. I don't see anything bad with the system except that *maybe* some people won't be able to adapt to such a big change. I'd rather defend ED because I'm not convinced by the public to write it off completely. It is a working system. ED, has a very potential good use, we just need to have more information on how players interact with it.

was kind of my point...hence the winky face?

Deathlike, on 23 October 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Obviously the OP is some PGI alt account!



Russ has said things plenty of times that were out of touch with the playerbase before. It wouldn't be the first nor the last.

even Russ isn't desperate and delusional enough to think the OP is actually helping PGIs cause.

[ShaneoftheDead]

Energy Draw is yet another blow against the Inner Sphere. Russ! Why do you hate us?!?!!?

Clan has the range and now Pop-Tarts (JJs nerfed to stop Pop-Tarting...only to bring it back, but just for Clans ) and IS had the Brawl....but now they want to nerf the brawl.

The Clan Pop-Tart will be King once Energy Draw is instituted. Won't be able to out damage them even if you do make it to close range 'cause they'll bunny-hop to negate your damage until you shut-down. This already happens now and will only be reinforced with Energy Draw.

[Bud Crue]

Kael Posavatz, on 23 October 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

Or is it a fantasy?

That said, I have no doubt that some find it superior to Ghost Heat. Just about anything short of Leo Showers standing on Terra as the eternal ilKhan would be.

I had no problem with ED per se...the whole lets punish alphas over 30 with a slight heat spike, etc. I think by itslelf that would have been fine to tolerable. Good players would adapt regardless.

But what ED has become on the PTS has detoured from this to such an extent that I have no clue what ED is anymore, nor what its goals are. One could just as easily point to "ED" and say it is about increasing SRM spread as it is about increasing TTK as it is about punishing more than 4 CERML. There is no longer a baseline, there is no longer a clear goal or a clear desired affect on game play. I.E. it is a mess and PGI won't talk to us about it. Which brings me to Russ tweet that I linked to above.

If Russ thinks most of us are supportive of ED based on the current comments in the ED feedback section of the forums, I am wondering if there is another forum that I don't know about. Because it seems to me that most commentators there are fairly critical of various aspects, even those who are in favor of others. Moreover the twitter thread that I linked makes it pretty clear that he is discounting the rest of the forums and his own twitter followers, so how exactly is he going to "find out if that is the case"? Reddit? Good luck with that.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 23 October 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

But what ED has become on the PTS has detoured from this to such an extent that I have no clue what ED is anymore, nor what its goals are.

ED is MWO's version of ObamaCare. What got pushed through is so different from what was proposed, nobody likes it, or understands it, and it only kept alive through sheer hubris.

Much like ED appears to be doing. (and quirks before it, GH, etc...)

[Scout Derek]

I just play the game. If a change comes, so be it, I'll adapt to the new meta that comes with this mechanic.

Maybe we'll have the worst kinds of meta come out and then back to the drawing board we go huh?

[badaa]

unless they change pinpoint or convergence all there doing is wasting time and money

[Mister Blastman]

Snowbluff, on 23 October 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

The mech has a rangefinder build in that works even if you aren't locked on. The ranged tuning would be perfect regardless of lockon.

PD says that a certain amount of the engine's power is devoted to the weapons. If the engine is forced to make more energy than normal, more waste heat is made.

The real logical issue with PD is that engines would have a % power used for weapons if the movement stats are anything to go by. That means mechs with larger engines should have more Power, but that would be a balancing issue.

There are active and passive systems on the 'mech. When it is not locked on, it is essentially passive. Passive is often too weak to grant enough information for a complete firing solution. Don't believe me? Check out military aircraft radar systems.

[PanzerMagier]

my KGC-000 cant continuously fire its 4 ultra 5's. That's without the cooldown quirks. I can think of several other ballistic builds that will have bracketed their fire for no good reason.

I voted ED so I can watch the world burn. If PGI brings it I will actively seek loop holes and exploits in it.

[Kin3ticX]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

ED is MWO's version of ObamaCare. What got pushed through is so different from what was proposed, nobody likes it, or understands it, and it only kept alive through sheer hubris.

Much like ED appears to be doing. (and quirks before it, GH, etc...)

Potato care, you can keep your mech, you can keep your build

Scout Derek, on 23 October 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

I just play the game. If a change comes, so be it, I'll adapt to the new meta that comes with this mechanic.

Maybe we'll have the worst kinds of meta come out and then back to the drawing board we go huh?

If ED hits I will be taking a very long vacation from this game. Especially considering it ended with PTS5 and tons of negative feedback and then goes into hiding until who knows when.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kin3ticX, on 23 October 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Potato care, you can keep your mech, you can keep your build



If ED hits I will be taking a very long vacation from this game. Especially considering it ended with PTS5 and tons of negative feedback and then goes into hiding until who knows when.

kind of sad since there seemed to be split to positive feedback, aside from those diehard against the whole idea after PTS3.....

Ah well. A pity Convergence/aiming and meaningful heatscale effects are beyond PGIs ability... you know stuff that would actually fix things and be closer to actual lore?

[Kin3ticX]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

kind of sad since there seemed to be split to positive feedback, aside from those diehard against the whole idea after PTS3.....

Ah well. A pity Convergence/aiming and meaningful heatscale effects are beyond PGIs ability... you know stuff that would actually fix things and be closer to actual lore?

they cant do anything with convergence until the weapons converge at target distance rather than the crosshair rangefinder.

Opposite arm mounts, especially the widest of mechs, do terrible things when the rangefinder says infinity

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Deathlike, on 23 October 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

Fixed for you.

Its an incremental dartboard.

[Wintersdark]

Kaptain, on 23 October 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

I would argue that it was the outrage at the announcement 3PV was going to become a thing (despite promises otherwise) the prevented PGI from implementing it in a OP state. Had the community not reacted we would probably have a 3PV that is even more of a wall/hill cheat than it already is.

Maybe. But I'd argue the "3PV is terrible!!!!!" Folks (I was one!) where useless.

It was the "THESE parts of 3PV are a problem for THESE reasons" people who had it right, and provided useful feedback allowing for nondestructive 3PV. I'd have never thought it possible, but here we are.

I'm not saying "Don't speak up", I'm saying g, say something useful. Hell, say you don't like it, I don't care.

I'm not pushing for or against it.

But if you just say, HURR! ITS BAD! NO! There's a real possibility it'll happen anyways, with PGI having made changes they hope will make it better for you (see: 3PV). Better to have said something more useful, that can guide those changes in a positive direction.

[Kael Posavatz]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

ED is MWO's version of ObamaCare. What got pushed through is so different from what was proposed, nobody likes it, or understands it, and it only kept alive through sheer hubris.

I object! ED is much worse.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wintersdark, on 23 October 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

But if you just say, HURR! ITS BAD! NO! There's a real possibility it'll happen anyways, with PGI having made changes they hope will make it better for you (see: 3PV). Better to have said something more useful, that can guide those changes in a positive direction.

Honestly, I have described my issues with it specifically in detail many times. I'm tired of it, so my argument against it has been abbreviated. I've spent WAY too much time talking through the specifics already. And frankly, there are equal if not more people who just say "HURR! GHOST HEAT LOOPHOLES! YES ED"

But right there, "that can guide those changes in a positive direction", what if I don't like energy draw as a concept? That's my feedback... the concept of linking all weapons to an energy pool is awful to me, and just promotes same weapon boating, which is boring.

[Scout Derek]

Kin3ticX, on 23 October 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

If ED hits I will be taking a very long vacation from this game. Especially considering it ended with PTS5 and tons of negative feedback and then goes into hiding until who knows when.

Just saying, what can you do.

Also if you do, will you be playing the new B-tech game or...?

[Scout Derek]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 October 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

Honestly, I have described my issues with it specifically in detail many times. I'm tired of it, so my argument against it has been abbreviated. I've spent WAY too much time talking through the specifics already. And frankly, there are equal if not more people who just say "HURR! GHOST HEAT LOOPHOLES! YES ED"

But right there, "that can guide those changes in a positive direction", what if I don't like energy draw as a concept? That's my feedback... the concept of linking all weapons to an energy pool is awful to me, and just promotes same weapon boating, which is boring.

An example would be Kodiak - as of latest patch if I recall, I don't know if it was you - but you (or someone else) took a Kodiak - 3 with dakka and still performed without a hindrance.

[Wintersdark]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 October 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

Honestly, I have described my issues with it specifically in detail many times. I'm tired of it, so my argument against it has been abbreviated. I've spent WAY too much time talking through the specifics already. And frankly, there are equal if not more people who just say "HURR! GHOST HEAT LOOPHOLES! YES ED"

But right there, "that can guide those changes in a positive direction", what if I don't like energy draw as a concept? That's my feedback... the concept of linking all weapons to an energy pool is awful to me, and just promotes same weapon boating, which is boring.

I didn't say you didn't. I've only objected to the uselessness of the poll - sadly, I see I've gotten my threads confused. I thought this was the thread discussing Imperius pointlessly vague poll.

Eh. Whatever.

*Shrugs* don't care anyways. Either way is fine with me.

[BLOOD WOLF]

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 October 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Its not obvious to some people why ED is winning the tide of change. ED's objective was to plug the loopholes allowed by the previous heat scale system. For those still going around acting as if there are not plainly demonstrable reasons why ED is better than the older system is simple. It is empirically demonstrates that builds that were able to escape penalty can not do so under the new system. It is a umbrella system that catches all, not just same type weapon groups.

You have to demonstrate this is not the case by valid evidence. Asserting that it failed or its bad tells nobody anything about the system. They have been taking data from the test servers, that is all. The test servers now are probably not in use at the moment, because the ED system as it seems has already satisfied the conditions of testing. Unless their is a weapon combination or something that it does not catch, and once again by demonstration.

I remember watching a video by somebody who ranted against the ED system and not once did they demonstrate the validity of their claims. Stop complaining that the PTS pop is not their and get a group going. Nobody goes in their without a group anymore, especially after a long period of it being out.

Demonstrate you claims when it comes to empirical knowledge that can be tested. Otherwise there is no good reason for anyone to take what you say as facts without Bias.

This is not my video but its that dakka bear on the PTS. The comparison between live server builds that are similar to this when on the PTS builds that run without getting penalized do on the PTS. I have seen no demonstration that builds like these High alpha or DPS can get past ED.

That was the point of the thread. you can not like ED, like ED, make a million polls or whatever. The only thing that matters is the demonstrable evidence.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 23 October 2016 - 05:28 PM.