164 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

dario03, on 01 November 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Wait, are you talking about just taking away 5 slots from each torso, thus reducing the overall crit slots by 10?
Talking about Ferro and Endo? Because those are 14 total, the Kodiak only comes with Endo, and is a battlemech so you can change that.
Or do you mean the CXL Engine? Because that would be all of the engine slots, and cause death on one st loss which isn't a thing with CXL.

In any case I think removing the quirks should be the first thing that happens (and the roadmap does mention quirk changes on 12 clan mechs this month). I vote to take those quirks off the KDK3 and give them to the Jenner IIc
And then maybe some negative quirks since it will probably still be really good. Nothing major, just something little and see how that works.

Quick correction: Slots don't matter
It's another variable in MWO, "sidesToDie"
Meaning, if it's 0, null, no amount of ST removal will kill you (STD)

If it's 1, losing an ST will kill you (isXL)

If it's 2, losing 2 STs will kill you (cXL)

-<Module faction="Clan,InnerSphere" CType="CEngineStats" name="Engine_Std_105" id="3219">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\StdEngine.dds" descTag="@Engine_Standard_Fusion_105_desc" nameTag="@Engine_Standard_Fusion_105"/>
<EngineStats health="15" heatsinks="4" weight="2.5" rating="105" sidesToDie="0" sideSlots="0" slots="6"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CEngineStats" name="Engine_XL_250" id="3348">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\XLEngine.dds" descTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_250_desc" nameTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_250"/>
<EngineStats health="15" heatsinks="10" weight="12.5" rating="250" sidesToDie="1" sideSlots="3" slots="6"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="Clan" CType="CEngineStats" name="Engine_Clan_XL_300" id="3458">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\XLEngine.dds" descTag="@Engine_Clan_XL_Fusion_300_desc" nameTag="@Engine_Clan_XL_Fusion_300"/>
<EngineStats health="15" heatsinks="12" weight="15.5" rating="300" sidesToDie="2" sideSlots="2" slots="6"/>
</Module>

So, OP's sidesToDie=2 sideSlots=7 would be valid...and a bad idea.

[Mystere]

jjm1, on 01 November 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

The saddest part in all this is that its zealous players have had so much time in it that they have become addicted to the power.

Its ridiculousness needs reigning in for balance reasons. If you think its not OP, then you shouldn't be complaining because you can just hop in your other assault mechs and rake in the same consistent match scores, right?

You do not get it at all. This very loud endless cry for nerfs has a high probability of rendering the entire Kodiak chassis next to useless, much like the Victor and Highlander.

Xmith, on 01 November 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

Why don't people git gud instead of showing their lack of skill

Because crying on the forums is infinitely much much easier and effective?

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 November 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Any mech CAN be beat. This is a team game. Just because a Mist Lynx finishes off a Kodiak with a couple shots from an ER PPC doesn't mean that the Mist Lynx and Kodiak are balanced with each other. Then doesn't alter the inherent advantages of the mech.

Compare the KDK-3 to a Dire Wolf... Kodiak: 70 kph, amazing hardpoints, 2 UAC10s + 2 UAC5s, Structure quirks, 70 degree torso arc

Dire Wolf: 52 kph, decent hardpoints, 2 UAC10s + 3 UAC5s, no structure quirks, 60 degree torso arc. Which one is better?
You can make the same comparison with ER PPC+Gauss.

You can't say "Oh its been beat therefore its balanced", because that leaves out virtually all the details of the engagement. You might be mistaking my saying that the KDK-3 is the best mech in the game means that I find it unbeatable. That is far from the truth, but it certainly makes the game much easier to play, and makes 1000 damage games come very easily.



The Sprit Bear is a good brawler, but the AS7-S is still the better brawler, its just slower so in the disorder of the public queue its harder to play. But... as far as overall capability, the Spirit Bear is no KDK-3.

Hint! Hint!

Marauder3D, on 01 November 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

If you've ever piloted a Battlemaster 1G, you know how much a limited arc can hurt you. This is EXACTLY what the KDK-3 needs to be nerfed into the ground.

FTFY.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hint! Hint!

That's not how it works.

You should be able to see the system better than that.

[Mystere]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 November 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

That's not how it works.

You should be able to see the system better than that.

I'm trying to prevent another Victor situation.

[Accused]

omg kd-3 op pls nerf crow op nerf plox lct 1e op nerf nao

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

I'm trying to prevent another Victor situation.

The amount of nerfing required for the KDK-3 to be that bad would be twist speed nerfs, pitch and angle, and NegaQuirks out the wazoo


Though, if they blanket nerf the Kodiak chassis, then what it does to the non KDK-3 will still not be as bad as the Victor (though, worse than many other robots, as they currently are)

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

I'm trying to prevent another Victor situation.

I sincerely doubt it will come to that. Really.

If PGI nerfs UACs, the KDK still wins because now everybody with UACs also sucks that much worse, too. Lasers are already on the ropes.

If PGI nerfs its twist...okay, so you have to move your feet a little more to turn, that's not a 'Mech-breaking issue. It's bad on the Battlemaster only because the Battlemaster explodes when it loses a side torso, which is not the case for the Kodiak.

If they implement Energy Draw...Kodiak still doesn't care because it can bring more DHS than anything else and run super efficient Clan lasers...or it can keep doing dakka and nothing is changed.

There is no one universal 'Mechanic they can change that would adversely impact the Kodiak to the same extent that jump jet nerfs killed the Victor.

And as McGral said, it would require unprecedented, even for PGI, levels of negative changes to a great many of the KDK's attributes to make it a Victor.

[Bandilly]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 November 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

The UAC changes will also likely take the dakka bear down a peg, so we should see where it sits with that.

If UACs worked anything like TT then it wouldn't be the weapon to have right now. Deviation from their origin is what has made them godly in MWO. I wish they were more TT like, give them an SRM like spread pattern and perma jams.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 01 November 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

The amount of nerfing required for the KDK-3 to be that bad would be twist speed nerfs, pitch and angle, and NegaQuirks out the wazoo

Though, if they blanket nerf the Kodiak chassis, then what it does to the non KDK-3 will still not be as bad as the Victor (though, worse than many other robots, as they currently are)

Yeonne Greene, on 01 November 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

I sincerely doubt it will come to that. Really.

If PGI nerfs UACs, the KDK still wins because now everybody with UACs also sucks that much worse, too. Lasers are already on the ropes.

If PGI nerfs its twist...okay, so you have to move your feet a little more to turn, that's not a 'Mech-breaking issue. It's bad on the Battlemaster only because the Battlemaster explodes when it loses a side torso, which is not the case for the Kodiak.

If they implement Energy Draw...Kodiak still doesn't care because it can bring more DHS than anything else and run super efficient Clan lasers...or it can keep doing dakka and nothing is changed.

There is no one universal 'Mechanic they can change that would adversely impact the Kodiak to the same extent that jump jet nerfs killed the Victor.

And as McGral said, it would require unprecedented, even for PGI, levels of negative changes to a great many of the KDK's attributes to make it a Victor.

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

I have this dreadful feeling that people will not stop complaining until the Kodiak is nerfed to hell and back ...

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

People still complain about the Timber Wolf. It has survived. It has always survived.

[jjm1]

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

You do not get it at all. This very loud endless cry for nerfs has a high probability of rendering the entire Kodiak chassis next to useless, much like the Victor and Highlander.

I'd actually prefer one more useless assault mech than one uber dominant one that makes them all pretty useless.

Besides, your arguing a slippery slope fallacy to stop any progress at all, you don't know for sure PGI will bore another hole in their sinking ship. Its just statistically probable.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bandilly, on 01 November 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

If UACs worked anything like TT then it wouldn't be the weapon to have right now. Deviation from their origin is what has made them godly in MWO. I wish they were more TT like, give them an SRM like spread pattern and perma jams.

Um, UACs aren't really that godly, they are just good when you have enough tonnage to boat lots of them.

[El Bandito]

nehebkau, on 01 November 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

Yep, bad torso movement is a quick way to cripple a mech.

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

FTFY.

KDK-3 will still be nothing less than T1 mech even after that. But far more manageable.

[Mystere]

jjm1, on 01 November 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

I'd actually prefer one more useless assault mech than one uber dominant one that makes them all pretty useless.

Besides, your arguing a slippery slope fallacy to stop any progress at all, you don't know for sure PGI will bore another hole in their sinking ship. Its just statistically probable.

It's not a slippery slope when it's based on precedent ... lots of it.

[Baulven]

Mystere, on 01 November 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

I have this dreadful feeling that people will not stop complaining until the Kodiak is nerfed to hell and back, thus rendering it as useless as the Victor and Highlander.

Why don't we just shut down the game instead?

You don't need a feeling about that. Even in the first page the thread had people saying him the chassis from orbit.

UNTIL people stop calling for a nerf to the entire chassis, you know AGAIN, I will argue against needing the kodiak. You want to talk about just the three and I will support most measures (Not twist of yaw though because they won't bring back red quirks which means its a chassis nerf since it will need to be baseline.

Until people stop trying to best the mediocre variants though I personally won't endorse a nerf, the collateral damage is way to high. It's just like when they nerfed the jenners to hell because the oxide needed reigning in.

[Y E O N N E]

Baulven, on 01 November 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

UNTIL people stop calling for a nerf to the entire chassis, you know AGAIN, I will argue against needing the kodiak. You want to (Not twist of yaw though because they won't bring back red quirks which means its a chassis nerf since it will need to be baseline.

You can have different stats for different variants, you know. Just look at the Battlemaster and the Blackjack: wildly different torso yaw depending on the variant.

[Davegt27]

I have no problem with the KDK-3
if I get killed by one then I screwed up

a dakka DW is just as dangerous

top tips
1) don't try to stare down a KDK-3
2) load up some UAVs pop one before you poke don't just run out in the open
3) use cover until your ready to push
4) call out the KDK-3 "KDK-3 G4"
5) when confronted by a KDK-3 revers try to get on its flank or rear
6) focus fire and call out when he drops a weapon


HTH

[GrimRiver]

I've always voted on removal of the "KDK-3" structure and "maybe" bump up the GH on clan U-AC's just a tad.

It truly is the issue mech with it's 100 tons of high mounted dakka F-you spam.

At most ranges it's still a massive threat while most other mechs have one range they can't play nice in.

And some people with say "well the dire can run most of the same builds but people aren't whining about that"

Well the thing with the dire is it's very slow, lumbering and no hardpoints mount really high, like say the "KDK-3".

Heck it doesn't even have to expose it's main body just to fire D-P for 60-70dmg every 3.0 seconds.

Just about every event it was at the top of the leaderboards and you can't go 2 games without seeing more than 2 on your team and the reds.

It's just too "no-skill" friendly also.

[El Bandito]

Davegt27, on 01 November 2016 - 07:01 PM, said:

I have no problem with the KDK-3
if I get killed by one then I screwed up

a dakka DW is just as dangerous

top tips
1) don't try to stare down a KDK-3
2) load up some UAVs pop one before you poke don't just run out in the open
3) use cover until your ready to push
4) call out the KDK-3 "KDK-3 G4"
5) when confronted by a KDK-3 revers try to get on its flank or rear
6) focus fire and call out when he drops a weapon

A Dakka Whale is far easier to manage than KDK-3. Heck, it can't even get to cover in time.