164 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

OZHomerOZ, on 02 November 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

For Clanners no
For IS you have a bigger selection

The KDK-3 is better than any IS assault. It is the best assault, that's why it should be tapped down a bit. There should be a choice between a KDK-3 and a Mauler, instead of just a choice between the dakka KDK-3 and the cERPPC-Gauss KDK-3.

[General Solo]

Sure tap it down just down, just dont cripple it.

[Druarc]

Well how about 100% weapon jam on all weapons limit pilots view to a 10x10 screen and give it a top speed of 30? I think some would still call it OP.

Or people could learn how to fight it, any good light pilot should be able to give it a good run around, I've killed more than have killed me in 1v1 fights and I'm not the best light pilot. I've got a few friends who tear them to pieces they actively hunt them

Yes I own it I also own 150 other mechs, I like to have choices .

[Y E O N N E]

OZHomerOZ, on 02 November 2016 - 07:56 AM, said:

Sure tap it down just down, just dont cripple it.

We don't want to cripple it. Reducing torso twist and pitch to BLR-1G levels would be a reasonable starting point.

[General Solo]

Yeah , for me Kodiaks have never been a problem. I just give em the respect every 100 Tonner deserves
And some pilot them better than others
Probably where most of the horror stories come from

BTW killed 3 locust in one game last night, dual gauss

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 02 November 2016 - 08:03 AM.

[Mcgral18]

OZHomerOZ, on 02 November 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Yeah , for me Kodiaks have never been a problem. I just give em the repect every 100 Tonner deserves

Which is an insane amount of Power Creep
MWO doesn't need any more of that


KDK-3, exclusively, needs those changes.

[GrimRiver]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

The KDK-3 is better than any IS assault. It is the best assault, that's why it should be tapped down a bit. There should be a choice between a KDK-3 and a Mauler, instead of just a choice between the dakka KDK-3 and the cERPPC-Gauss KDK-3.

Agreed, there just is NO reason to take the other KDK's over the KDK-3's dakka vomit.

They're just too overshadowed by the KDK-3's perks.

Not to mention if you're a newb with just enough c-bills the choice is quite obvious on what assault to pick.

It's why there is soo much KDK-3 cancer in MM and why tryhards pick it too, because of it's hyper ease of use.

[General Solo]

I'd fear the gauss one more.

Mcgral18, on 02 November 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

Which is an insane amount of Power Creep
MWO doesn't need any more of that


KDK-3, exclusively, needs those changes.

Depends what you mean
Firepower no - same as dire wolf
Mobility yes

Being a battle mech has its advantages IIC
Soon as PGI made a 100T clan Battle mech it was bound to happen min/max

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 02 November 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

Its incredibly easy to spit out 1000+ damage games in a KDK-3, easier than any other Assault, because it has very little compromise.

That is such a falsehood. Its no easier than any other assault mech. The only reason anyone ever scores 1000+ damage games is because 1000 health points worth of idiocy happened to present themselves as targets. If you ran into a team of idiot AFK's in the drop zone, you could pull a 1000 damage in a spider or a locust quite easily.

[Gas Guzzler]

Dee Eight, on 02 November 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

That is such a falsehood. Its no easier than any other assault mech. The only reason anyone ever scores 1000+ damage games is because 1000 health points worth of idiocy happened to present themselves as targets. If you ran into a team of idiot AFK's in the drop zone, you could pull a 1000 damage in a spider or a locust quite easily.

What other mech has that combination of firepower with mobility and high hardpoints?

It is no falsehood, you can try to make excuses all you want. The fact that I can run around at 70 kph spitting out 60 damage double-taps, and keeping up DPS beyond that, only having to expose the top 25% of my mech makes it incredibly easy to keep the pain train chugging.

[AphexTwin11]

PLZ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NERF THE KDK-3!!!!!!11!!!11! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! THOSE CLAWS! THOSE HARDPOINTS! OH MY!

Edited by AphexTwin11, 02 November 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Dee Eight, on 02 November 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

That is such a falsehood. Its no easier than any other assault mech. The only reason anyone ever scores 1000+ damage games is because 1000 health points worth of idiocy happened to present themselves as targets. If you ran into a team of idiot AFK's in the drop zone, you could pull a 1000 damage in a spider or a locust quite easily.

This is the real falsehood.

Double tap once, that takes about one second and that's 60 damage. No big deal, laser boats get close to this all the time. But, what's this? There is no 3.25 second gap between shots or scalding 65+% heat to manage? I can fire again almost immediately? 120 damage in 2.5 seconds. 180. 240. 300. I've been in combat for only 8 seconds and I've already cracked average damage that one third to one half of the players on the field are going to make this round. 13 seconds, I've already carried the what a Heavy can be expected to accomplish in five minutes now with 450+ damage.

The only way a Locust pulls 1000+ damage is if the teams are idiots *and* the match drags on for almost the entire 15 minute duration. Go ahead, ask me how I know. The KDK spits it out in 5.

[Gas Guzzler]

AphexTwin11, on 02 November 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

PLZ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NERF THE KDK-3!!!!!!11!!!11!

Most people here aren't doing that. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging a clear balance outlier.

If anything, the people trying to plead that the KDK-3 is actually balanced resemble this image much more.

[AphexTwin11]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Most people here aren't doing that. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging a clear balance outlier.

If anything, the people trying to plead that the KDK-3 is actually balanced resemble this image much more.

Are you trying to say that using broad-based layman statistics to say the KDK is 'super' OP and the incessant, constant whining about Nerfing it, isn't the same thing as, as you eloquently put it, "acknowledging a clear balance outlier"?

lol okay git gud m8

Edited by AphexTwin11, 02 November 2016 - 08:41 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

AphexTwin11, on 02 November 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

Are you trying to say that using broad-based layman statistics to say the KDK is 'super' OP and the incessant, constant whining about Nerfing it, isn't the same thing as, as you eloquently put it, "acknowledging a clear balance outlier"?

lol okay git gud m8

I didn't see a lot of whining in this thread. Like I said, most people have just discussed how the KDK-3 is stronger than its competition and discussed ways that it could be adjusted to be better balanced. If you don't acknowledge that the KDK-3 is stronger than other mechs in its class, then you have no business being involved in a balance discussion. This is widely accepted by people who spend lots of time looking at this sort of thing.... and its pretty easy to come to this conclusion, given its incredibly high ballistic mounts, mobility, and firepower.

[AphexTwin11]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

This is widely accepted by people who spend lots of time looking at this sort of thing.

"widely accepted" - lol

"by people who spend lots of time looking at this sort of thing" - sounds mysterious, tell me more

Edited by AphexTwin11, 02 November 2016 - 08:53 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

AphexTwin11, on 02 November 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

"widely accepted" - lol

"by people who spend lots of time looking at this sort of thing" - sounds mysterious, tell me more

You have the team rosters for the three WOWC regional finalists and more. Go ask them. Or are they not gud enough?

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 November 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

You have the team rosters for the three WOWC regional finalists and more. Go ask them. Or are they not gud enough?

Question:

How many rounds were 2 Kodiaks not taken?

[AphexTwin11]

Mcgral18, on 02 November 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

Question:

How many rounds were 2 Kodiaks not taken?

Doesn't matter. Any analyst worth his salt knows that correlation and causation don't necessarily coincide with one another, especially when the sample is not reflective of the population. Asking: How many TBR's were there? How many XYZ mechs were there? =/= TBRs & XYZ mechs are OP.

^ rekt git gud gg m8 10/10 "wow *guy winking face* MLG *airhorns* mtn dew and doritos flying through the air

Edited by AphexTwin11, 02 November 2016 - 09:15 AM.

[1453 R]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 November 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

We don't want to cripple it. Reducing torso twist and pitch to BLR-1G levels would be a reasonable starting point.

So...hammering the Kodiak chassis to the nigh-unusable levels of the oft-derided "broken waist" BLR-1G is a 'reasonable starting point'? As in we're going to keep smashing it after that, too? How long did people kvetch about how the Battlemaster didn't deserve Battlemaster-level inability-to-twist?

At this point, the KDK-3 folks are honestly starting to remind me of a particular Smiting Prayers nerf back in Guild Wars 1, where the devs hit a skill so incredibly hard they outright, nakedly admitted without any attempt at obfuscation "we're making these changes with the intent of removing [Skill] from use in competitive play. We know that's a hard road to take, and it's not going to be popular with the players, but this skill was a mistake, and we really only have one way to correct it."

Is that where we're going here? Ladle out arc reductions, pitch reductions, hardpoint reductions, negative structure quirks, negative agility quirks, negative ballistic quirks, so on and so forth, until the KDK-3 has been removed from MWO without actually giving players cause to bonk Piranha over taking their money for a product that is later un-delivered?

If you want Piranha to yank the KDK-3, then man up and say you want them to yank the KDK-3. Don't keep up with this ridiculous "we don't want to cripple it, we just want to tap it down a bit" bullscheissen.

Yes, you absolutely want to cripple it. It, and every other Kodiak in the game. And every Executioner, Dire Whale, and Highlander IIC in the game too, while we're at it. Don't prevaricate like that. It p!sses me off.

Mcgral18, on 02 November 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

Which is an insane amount of Power Creep
MWO doesn't need any more of that


KDK-3, exclusively, needs those changes.

Don't fib, McGral. We all know the KDK-3 Pwn Train folks have absolutely no problem whatsoever with Piranha smashing the entire chassis into useless garbage right alongside the "reasonable starting point" megagigagagglenerfs everyone keeps proposing for the KDK-3. And the Executioner, and the Whale, and the Highlander-IIC, and possibly even the Gargoyle. Definitely the Marauder-IIC in a couple of months, and absolutely the Supernova a couple of months after that.

Gotta make sure the KDK-3 Problem never happens again, after all. Reducing every Clan fatbro to roughly the same combat effectiveness level as a stock Zeus should just 'bout do it, hm?

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Most people here aren't doing that. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging a clear balance outlier.

If anything, the people trying to plead that the KDK-3 is actually balanced resemble this image much more.

I'm not saying the KDK-3 is balanced.

I'm saying that there's not a single damn soul in this entire snakepit that's interested in 'balancing' the KDK-3. They don't want it 'tapped down'. They don't want it 'dialed back a bit'. They don't want it 'brought in line'.

They want it to have its pitch cut in half, its twist arc chopped down to 40 degrees - not 40 degrees to either side, 40 degrees total - they want it hit with double-digits red structure quirks, they want its engine rating cut down to 300, they want its energy hardpoints removed. They want five slots in each side torso to just vanish into the aether.

You all want all of that, at once. You want Piranha to nerf the KDK-3 square out of MWO, just like that old Smiting skill in GW1 that was openly removed-from-play level nerfed up.

That bothers me. It bothers me that every discussion about the KDK-3 basically boils down to "let's remove its quirks, cut its twist arcs in half, remove its ability to pitch altogether, and use that as a start point. We'll continue nerfing from there as the Hive Mind deems appropriate, and also diffuse those changes across the entire Clan assault classification because the Mauler should always be the indisputable and inarguable best assault 'Mech in the game, yo."

You guys are going to get the entire Kodiak chassis buttplugged - again. Most of them are already mediocre at best. And frankly, I find the notion of hitting a 'Mech so hard it's effectively removed from MWO to be a very bad, very ugly precedent we don't need to be setting.

Where would we be if they'd done that for any of the other 'Mechs the forums have exploded about in the past, eh? The Arctic Cheetah? The Cauldron-Born? The Timber Wolf, the Stormcrow? The ol' Highlander or Victor, the CTF-3D, the Shadow Hawk? Oh, wait a sec, that's right...

If you're saying the KDK-3 needs to be 'tapped down', then tap it down. Key word is tap, not "DROP A MOUNTAIN ON IT, AND EVERYTHING WITHIN FIVE MILES OF IT IN THE 'MECHLAB". That's what gets me - you folks' constant need to destroy the machine, every other Kodiak, and also possibly the rest of the Clan assault classification as well for the sake of 'balance'.