107 replies to this topic

[Blind Baku]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 06 November 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

Interesting to note that the KDK is indisputably a 10/10 mech, lol.

Also makes me very sad that apparently an Urbanmech is considered as being less of a joke than a Commando or a Mist Lynx.

Yeah, me too Fox, me too.

[Roland09]

Bah, it's just IS players voting anyway, so it's no wonder the result is "CLAN MECHS OP!". Doesn't prove a thing.














Also, I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and sing out loud.

[El Bandito]

Roland09, on 08 November 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Bah, it's just IS players voting anyway, so it's no wonder the result is "CLAN MECHS OP!". Doesn't prove a thing.

Also, I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and sing out loud.

Lol, yeah. The IIC versions are voted as being straight up better than the IS originals despite their quirks, doesn't mean Clan tech is simply better than IS quirks at all.

*end sarcasm*

[Gaden Phoenix]

Roland09, on 08 November 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Bah, it's just IS players voting anyway, so it's no wonder the result is "CLAN MECHS OP!". Doesn't prove a thing.

Also, I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and sing out loud.

Yes it is a IS wide conspiracy. And the championship teams all using mostly clan mechs, is another IS created conspiracy, they were all bought off by IS spys!!!

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 08 November 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

The chart had clearly showed us that Clan tech > IS quirks. Just compare the rating between Jenner/Hunchie/Orion/Highlander vs their IIC counterparts.

Something PGI should keep in mind.

Well, current quirks


GodQuirks > any tech base, but they don't exist anymore.

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 09 November 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Well, current quirks

GodQuirks > any tech base, but they don't exist anymore.

And it is good that they do not exist anymore. PGI should balance the base tech so that God quirks are much less necessary, like I said many times.

[Tarogato]

I've updated the OP with more details on the results. Poll is closed for now, I may reopen at a later date pending more significant balance changes from PGI. I'll quote the new section below for posterity:

Tarogato, on 06 November 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Results!


Overall results: https://docs.google....#gid=1954608450

I closed the poll due to incoming balancing changes in the November patch. 323 submissions were accepted.


58 submissions were chosen to be normalised - which is to say those people did not properly rank mechs from 1-10, so I stretched their numbers to fit the entire interval. Here is an example to show what I mean by this. This doesn't change the relationship between the numbers, it's like adding contrast to a image so that you can see the features more easily. The net result of these adjustments didn't have nearly as much of an effect as I expected, you can see the comparison here: https://docs.google....#gid=1954608450


Here is a rough comparison between how Reddit voted vs. how the MWO forums voted. They're not 100% exclusive, but pretty close. Not very much difference between the two.


Here is a breakdown comparison between causal, semi-competitive, and comp players.

[Angel of Annihilation]

El Bandito, on 06 November 2016 - 09:38 PM, said:

I voted and then erased the visualized numbers. After checking the results, I am surprised how close the votes are. As expected, Clan mechs are in the lead in all classes. In the Light class, IS Jenner seems to be most varied in terms of opinion on its effectiveness, for all range of players. +20% variance from casual to comp players. Interesting how comp players rate the Ferret and the Trebbie much higher than more casual players in the Medium class. I understand why Ferret can be decent choice, but the Trebuchet? From Heavy class, Archer seems to have a lot of variance for casual players, most likely due to the fact many of them can't deal with LRMs. Still a weak chassis overall. Comp players are also much less impressed with the incoming Mad-IIC, than the rest. Time will tell. And yes, Kodiak (specifically KDK-3) is just bounds better than the rest of the Assaults, having near perfect score. Comp players especially agree with it while casual players slightly are more varied in that opinion--which supports my theory that KDK-3 becomes far more effective the better its pilot skill is. In the potato league, piloted by potato players, it could be less intimidating.

Clans do indeed have a few good mechs but the majority of them are no better and often worse rated that the IS mechs. I think people tend to neglect this fact way too often when making sweeping statements like, "As expected Clan mechs are in the lead in all classes". Just because a Clan mech is rated highest in each class doesn't make Clan's OP.

Now I know that your aren't specifically saying Clan Mechs are OP in that statement but it is implied or at the very least could be taken that way by a reader.

Some of the interesting takes I get out of it is that the Battlemaster and Mauler are rated more highly than ANY Clan Assault mech other than the Kodiak and at least 4 others that have better rating that all by the Kodiak and the Direwolf. Aside from the Kodiak which is about to get nerfed fairly substancially, the IS has the Assault Mech Catagory completely tied up (I don't count the results for the Marauder IIC they aren't released yet).

Then from a Heavy Mech standpoint sure the Clan's have the top rated mech but it BARELY edges out the Warhammer which is rated equal to the Night Gyr and better than all other Clan heavies. There is a very balanced distribution in power in this weight category.

As for medium and lights, I think the clans do have slight edge but it is only slight. Several of the IS mediums are rated almost as highly as the top Clan medium and in the lights aside from the Jenner IIC and Arctic Cheetah, the vast majority of IS lights are rated more highly than Clan lights.

So I think we need to be very careful with any statement that can lead people to think that the Clans are actually dominating because they are not.

[Deathlike]

Viktor Drake, on 13 November 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

Clans do indeed have a few good mechs but the majority of them are no better and often worse rated that the IS mechs. I think people tend to neglect this fact way too often when making sweeping statements like, "As expected Clan mechs are in the lead in all classes". Just because a Clan mech is rated highest in each class doesn't make Clan's OP.

Now I know that your aren't specifically saying Clan Mechs are OP in that statement but it is implied or at the very least could be taken that way by a reader.

Some of the interesting takes I get out of it is that the Battlemaster and Mauler are rated more highly than ANY Clan Assault mech other than the Kodiak and at least 4 others that have better rating that all by the Kodiak and the Direwolf. Aside from the Kodiak which is about to get nerfed fairly substancially, the IS has the Assault Mech Catagory completely tied up (I don't count the results for the Marauder IIC they aren't released yet).

Then from a Heavy Mech standpoint sure the Clan's have the top rated mech but it BARELY edges out the Warhammer which is rated equal to the Night Gyr and better than all other Clan heavies. There is a very balanced distribution in power in this weight category.

As for medium and lights, I think the clans do have slight edge but it is only slight. Several of the IS mediums are rated almost as highly as the top Clan medium and in the lights aside from the Jenner IIC and Arctic Cheetah, the vast majority of IS lights are rated more highly than Clan lights.

So I think we need to be very careful with any statement that can lead people to think that the Clans are actually dominating because they are not.

As currently constituted, the top options include more Clan mechs than IS mechs. At best, the overwhelming IS mechs used in comp play involve the Griffin (in a SRM-splat role) and the Grasshopper as the long range overwatch. There may be a few others that hasn't come to mind (the HBK-4SP is used for being a super medium tank, Battlemaster being the Assault version of the Grasshopper w/o JJs), but the current state of the game primarily favors Clans.

[Magnus Santini]

Victor Drake is right: so after careful consideration, reading the poll results Tarogato brought us (thanks it was easy to vote and to read the results!), experience in playing, and a sober perusal of the FW/CW galaxy map, I say "the Clans are actually dominating." The funny part is that the clanners are actually so afraid of their own OP mechs that they always attack the IS.

[C E Dwyer]

Be interesting to know out of the voters

Who voted on both, who still plays that voted here, and who still plays from the Reddit vote.

Can't help but wonder how many are voting on opinions that are now out of date.

Still the bottom line of the results for me is this.

If I get under 200 damage in my Victor I don't have to feel bad, if I get over 500 then my game play was God like.

As it's now Voted by the players as the worse mech of all the Weight catagories, even the Mist Lynx gets held in higher regard.

Come Tuesday when it gets it's massively OP +10% acc/deceleration buff it's going to knock the KDK off it's perch ..

No really

Edited by Cathy, 13 November 2016 - 02:30 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Viktor Drake, on 13 November 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

Clans do indeed have a few good mechs but the majority of them are no better and often worse rated that the IS mechs. I think people tend to neglect this fact way too often when making sweeping statements like, "As expected Clan mechs are in the lead in all classes". Just because a Clan mech is rated highest in each class doesn't make Clan's OP.

Now I know that your aren't specifically saying Clan Mechs are OP in that statement but it is implied or at the very least could be taken that way by a reader.

Some of the interesting takes I get out of it is that the Battlemaster and Mauler are rated more highly than ANY Clan Assault mech other than the Kodiak and at least 4 others that have better rating that all by the Kodiak and the Direwolf. Aside from the Kodiak which is about to get nerfed fairly substancially, the IS has the Assault Mech Catagory completely tied up (I don't count the results for the Marauder IIC they aren't released yet).

Then from a Heavy Mech standpoint sure the Clan's have the top rated mech but it BARELY edges out the Warhammer which is rated equal to the Night Gyr and better than all other Clan heavies. There is a very balanced distribution in power in this weight category.

As for medium and lights, I think the clans do have slight edge but it is only slight. Several of the IS mediums are rated almost as highly as the top Clan medium and in the lights aside from the Jenner IIC and Arctic Cheetah, the vast majority of IS lights are rated more highly than Clan lights.

So I think we need to be very careful with any statement that can lead people to think that the Clans are actually dominating because they are not.

I read posts like this, roll my eyes, and see a completely unbiased opinion, despite all the data and player opinions.

Or was it cross my eyes

[Tarogato]

Cathy, on 13 November 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

Be interesting to know out of the voters

Who voted on both, who still plays that voted here, and who still plays from the Reddit vote.

Can't help but wonder how many are voting on opinions that are now out of date.

I can actually provide that information. Gimme a few hours and I'll probably have it up.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 09 November 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Well, current quirks


GodQuirks > any tech base, but they don't exist anymore.

They do exist, but on chassis so mediocre that they suck even when offered godhood.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 November 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

They do exist, but on chassis so mediocre that they suck even when offered godhood.

Somewhere in Mech Valhalla said:

I wonder what would happen if we gave the Mist Lynx the same durability as a Direwolf....

[Y E O N N E]

It would run out of ammo before it dies 100% of the time instead of 75% of the time.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Magnus Santini, on 13 November 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

Victor Drake is right: so after careful consideration, reading the poll results Tarogato brought us (thanks it was easy to vote and to read the results!), experience in playing, and a sober perusal of the FW/CW galaxy map, I say "the Clans are actually dominating." The funny part is that the clanners are actually so afraid of their own OP mechs that they always attack the IS.

I actually play a pretty even distribution of Clan vs IS so while I tend to enjoy the lore behind the Clans a bit more, I am actually pretty unbiased. The reason I speak out against the whole Clan OP commotion is that I honestly feel that Clans are starting to be become inferior to IS mechs in most categories, especially the Omnimechs which are massively restricted in their customization. I think where people fail to realize the issue is that if the Clan Omnimech happens to be fairly well optimized, something like the Timberwolf, it preforms well but most aren't optimized and unlike an IS mech, they can't be modified to become optimized. Honestly I feel, aside from a few mechs, if they continue to weaken the Clan mech more, we will have IS superiority and any semblance of balance is going to be broken. I have already swore off buying any more Clan Omnimechs because I don't find them worthwhile anymore.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 November 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

It would run out of ammo before it dies 100% of the time instead of 75% of the time.

Who said we'd be running ammo based MLX's with Direwolf level structure+armor?

Viktor Drake, on 13 November 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

I actually play a pretty even distribution of Clan vs IS so while I tend to enjoy the lore behind the Clans a bit more, I am actually pretty unbiased. The reason I speak out against the whole Clan OP commotion is that I honestly feel that Clans are starting to be become inferior to IS mechs in most categories, especially the Omnimechs which are massively restricted in their customization. I think where people fail to realize the issue is that if the Clan Omnimech happens to be fairly well optimized, something like the Timberwolf, it preforms well but most aren't optimized and unlike an IS mech, they can't be modified to become optimized. Honestly I feel, aside from a few mechs, if they continue to weaken the Clan mech more, we will have IS superiority and any semblance of balance is going to be broken. I have already swore off buying any more Clan Omnimechs because I don't find them worthwhile anymore.

Gyrok, is that you?

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 13 November 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

Clans do indeed have a few good mechs but the majority of them are no better and often worse rated that the IS mechs. I think people tend to neglect this fact way too often when making sweeping statements like, "As expected Clan mechs are in the lead in all classes". Just because a Clan mech is rated highest in each class doesn't make Clan's OP.

Having top mechs in all classes = domination BTW. It doesn't matter how few those mechs are, when push comes to shove people will pick the best mechs. Remember the MWO championship matches, where 75% of the mechs were Clan? This is a clear tech imbalance, as quirks are not doing enough.

Base tech needs to be more balanced, so that best IS mechs can stand on equal ground as best Clan mechs without uber quirks. Otherwise, balance is sham.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 November 2016 - 06:02 PM.

[Kubernetes]

As others have noted, players are going to rank mechs depending on whether they view it through the lens of comp, CW, or QP. People who do a lot of the first two are more likely to value specialist builds that excel on specific maps and modes and in very specific roles. If QP is your thing you probably don't think too highly of Spiders, Ferrets, and Grasshoppers.