76 replies to this topic

[Black Lanner]

I absolutely want feedback...

I have mostly stuck to the Omnis... having more options on the Battlemechs is so very bass ackwards for me... I have played TT from 1990...

Let's see here... how to tweek...

All versions have Endo,
all but two have F-F (B & D),
the "Prime", "Prime S", the 8 (early adopter) and the A have Std engines...

pulling the stats from Smurfy for the Battlemaster, I am assuming the engine stats will be the same...

engine ratings start 340 Std, 340XL or 255XL (the D)
255 XL  12.5 tons - 48.6/ 52.2 KPH
340       34 tons
340 XL 20.5 tons - 64.8/ 69.7

higher engine ratings... going with all XLs... because Clan tech...
350 XL 22 - 66.7/ 71.7 KPH
355 XL 23 - 67.7/ 72.7 KPH
360 XL 23.5 - 68.6/ 73.8 KPH
365 XL 24.5 - 69.6/ 74.8 KPH
370 XL 25.5 - 70.5/ 75.8 KPH
375 XL 26.5 - 71.5/ 76.8 KPH
380 XL 27.5 - 72.4/ 77.9 KPH
385 XL 29 - 73.4/ 78.9 KPH
390 XL 30 - 74.3/ 79.9 KPH
395 XL 31.5 - 75.3/80.9 KPH
400 XL 33.5 - 76.2/ 82 KPH

These engines are throwing me off, I am used to the TT weights... these are heavier...

I am thinking they all need 365 XL... with tweek, you would be just shy of 75 KPH... for the 'Mechs with the Std Engines, you are saving 9.5 tons; the 340 XLs lose 4 tons, but the D, this one will need to chough up a full 12 tons for this engine.

The "Prime" only has 7 free slots and we would use 4 of them with an XL, and the get those four crits back by moving the DHS into the engine... Could actually cram the 400XL in and still save half a ton...then we turn around shift the MPLs and ERSs to SPLs and add a smig of armor... Or drop the engine to near max the armor; without doing any hard math, I would guess 385 XL should do it...
Have to stop here, going to continue later...

Edited by Black Lanner, 16 November 2016 - 04:18 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Clan Battlemechs, just ditch the std. Totally not worth the tonnage vs. clanXL (unless you want dual Gauss in a ST anyways)

Change the es/FF to your heart's content

[Black Lanner]

That is why I only posted the XL stats as options...

Also, I do not have full access to a computer, so I use the Mech Factory App on my phone... Anyone wanting access to the lore, I recommend it.

And I figured out why the engine weight is off from the TT... The weight from the Cockpit, Gyro, and extra HS are calculated into the weight... All things I am accustomed to adding separate in the TT... this actually makes things simpler.

Edited by Black Lanner, 15 November 2016 - 09:06 PM.

[Black Lanner]

So, did the math and some work on Smurfy using the Battlemaster, because, well, the Warhawk is too limited...

So, Max F-F armor minus 7 points is 14.5 tons, or rather close enough for government work

The MAD-IIC (+S) can possibly be built as follows: 21 DHS (2 moved into the engine), 3 ER PPCs (moved to STs), 6 SPLs, 1 AMS, 1/2 ton AMS ammo, 380 XL, 14.5 tons of armor, with 5 crits leftover... or we rework it and go MADSTAR with 8 ER PPCs...

The MAD-IIC-8 has 2 fewer energy Hardpoints, but a Missile Hardpoint is added, I am thinking a SRM 6 + 4 LPLs + 3 ERMLs,
or we go with the MADSTAR and have 7 ER PPCs...

The MAD-IIC-A is one I am really looking forward to... the 3 Ballistic points in that RT? 3 UAC5s all the way... with an XL there is only room left for one ton of ammo in that torso, so those leg DHS are going to have to be relocated... can't belive I said that, I would never run ammo in the legs in the TT... how different things are... I am surprised more people with Dakka builds don't get legged in the vids that I watch... anyways...

365 XL, 3 UAC 5s, 5 tons of ammo, 4 ERMLs, 21 DHS... may have to use Std armor and drop a DHS or two for Ammo... I have .5 tons left over, not sure if I have enough crits... at work now so there is only so much I can do...

MAD-IIC-B has JJ, but the Hardpoints don't thrill me, I think this one will be made or broken depending if there are any weapon quirks...

MAD-IIC-C also has JJ and the double Ballistic in the RT is appealing... I think I want to put double LB10-Xs in this one for some poptarting and hill humping during the early parts of the match... then fill the arms with ERMLs

MAD-IIC-D... this is it! This is the one I am waiting for! Double Gauss, ECM, Targ. Comp. VII... not sure if the missiles are worth keeping... then having the LPL and ERSL... that has to change... then the final issue is the speed... maybe drop the missiles to improve the engine rating...

I will have to evaluate Scorch later...

Edited by Black Lanner, 16 November 2016 - 04:11 AM.

[Black Lanner]

Scorch...
First I need to cough up 4 tons for the minimum engine that I want...down grading from Streaks will do that... maybe A/SRM 4s and get some extra AC ammo... next, these range brackets are really odd... UAC 5s, LPLs, SSRMs? Let's stick to one range, and I am thinking Brawler build. So, the A/SRM 4s, double Shotgun 10's, and 2 ERMLs... Crit the crap out of folks in the late game... But UAC 10s and Med Pulse would be better DPS... I'll have to work out the specifics for this later, when I have access to the Mech Factory...
Edit: So I did the math for the DPS build, and I can keep the F-F armor, but not the Art for the SRMs... Between the SRMs and the UACs, I can manage 10 tons of Ammo, not sure if that should be divided 5/5 or 6/4...

I wonder if you could boat 4 A/LRM 10's, then add UAC 2s & ERLLs... not really up for trying it for myself, but I have seen people try to build worse... might actually get some decent damage in the lower tier PUGs

I think what I want to run is the +S, the A, the D, and Scorch... mostly the A and D

Maybe the +S as a MADSTAR... could be a lot of fun... it isn't the B33f's Direstar, so I won't be coring people through the CT, much... of course, when the Supernova comes out, there will be the SUPERSTARS!


So what does everyone think?

Edited by Black Lanner, 16 November 2016 - 04:06 AM.

[Tremendous Upside]

Black Lanner, on 15 November 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

That is why I only posted the XL stats as options...

Also, I do not have full access to a computer, so I use the Mech Factory App on my phone... Anyone wanting access to the lore, I recommend it.

And I figured out why the engine weight is off from the TT... The weight from the Cockpit, Gyro, and extra HS are calculated into the weight... All things I am accustomed to adding separate in the TT... this actually makes things simpler.

Don't fall into the trap of overanalyzing engines. Just pick either XL340, 350 or 375 and build around that. A 365 gives you a 3kph speed increase over 350 - with no extra DHS slots in the engine to take advantage of and a tonnage cost of 2.5 more tons. That's not a very good trade off.

[The Lost Boy]

Or go xl 375 or xl 400 on the first 2 variants and go med pulse wubrauder. The strength of this mech will be its lare engine cap. Think battlemaster with clan tech. The hero scorch will be nasty too, 4 srm6a, some ballistcs of choice, and flamers or lasers. Gotta use that speed.

[Black Lanner]

Tremendous Upside, on 16 November 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Don't fall into the trap of overanalyzing engines. Just pick either XL340, 350 or 375 and build around that. A 365 gives you a 3kph speed increase over 350 - with no extra DHS slots in the engine to take advantage of and a tonnage cost of 2.5 more tons. That's not a very good trade off.

Excellent point, thank you! I am so accustomed to the TT that I have to rethink everything... even in the previous MW titles I didn't worry about the builds nearly as much, because very little was PvP. Trying to do these builds I was worried about the speed over weight/ HS capacity. I wanted an effective 65 KPH so that I wasn't lagging behind like the Atli, KC, and DWs often do. At the same time, I still want an effective loadout.

Lemming of the BDA, on 16 November 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

Or go xl 375 or xl 400 on the first 2 variants and go med pulse wubrauder. The strength of this mech will be its lare engine cap. Think battlemaster with clan tech. The hero scorch will be nasty too, 4 srm6a, some ballistcs of choice, and flamers or lasers. Gotta use that speed.

The Wubraurder might be doable... Just don't alpha, ghost heat of a 9 C-MPL alpha is 74.4... even firing 6, with no ghost heat is 36 on the scale (less than half of the heat of the 9 alpha), opposed to 24 heat from firing 6 of the I.S. MPLs. At least the DPS is nearly 30% better. 1.67 DPS for 1 I.S. MPL where as it is 2.08 for the Clan version.

4 SRM 6s are heavy... I did the math, and that is why I am leaning towards SRM 4s, faster cycle and I have the tonnage for the dual UAC or LBX 10's. If you want 6s' you could get AC 5s, but with the vast range difference, it doesn't seem like the best idea... could go quad SSRM- 6s, AMS, dual MG's, AP, and dual LPLs... you get some ghost heat for more than 3 SSRMs, but it isn't horrid. It would be a nasty surprise for the Lights and confused Mediums that try to get around and backstab the assaults. Also, these builds are based around the 365 XL, so you need to find ways to save tonnage if you want the heavier engines.

Edited by Black Lanner, 17 November 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[Yogge Mothi]

Hey Black Lanner! I'd love to theorize with you on this amazingly versatile mech. I've given a lot of thought and spreadsheet time to the MAD-IIC, so I'll start with that one.

MAD-IIC

Build 1: 6x ERLL, TC1, CAP, 28 DHS, endo, 340XL engine
Modules: Advanced Seismic, Advanced Zoom, ERLL Range, ERLL Cooldown
Notes: Completely left-sided asymmetric sniper build. Just keep firing ERLLs until they fire back, then block with the right side and keep firing. Needs field testing, but has potential to be incredibly powerful.

Build 2: 9x ERML, TC1, AMS, 1t AMS ammo, 29x DHS, endo, 400XL engine
Modules: Advanced Seismic, Radar Deprivation, ERML Range, ERML Cooldown
Notes: Medium range king. 29x DHS is actually enough to handle 9x ERMLs relatively well (w/ 2 firing groups of course) and maxed engine gives you 82kph after speed tweak.

Build 3: 9x SPL, TC7, AMS, 1t AMS ammo, 25x DHS, endo, 395XL engine
Modules: Advanced Seismic, Radar Deprivation, SPL Range, SPL Cooldown
Notes: Short range laser brawling beast. The TC7 + range module will give you an optimal SPL range of 198m and great crit chances.

[Bandilly]

Tremendous Upside, on 16 November 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Don't fall into the trap of overanalyzing engines. Just pick either XL340, 350 or 375 and build around that. A 365 gives you a 3kph speed increase over 350 - with no extra DHS slots in the engine to take advantage of and a tonnage cost of 2.5 more tons. That's not a very good trade off.

This exactly, you might go up to a 400XL on some builds but for the most part you want to look at the ones that are multiples of 25 because those are the ones that save you critical slots.

I think 350XL and 375XL are going to be the most common since the 400XL starts to eat up a bit too much tonnage. Some low heat sink ballistic heavy builds might go a little smaller to save tonnage for the big guns, like the D who is capped lower anyways.

Either way we're going to need to have a few million cbills on hand at launch to buy a few engines, unless you want to engine swap every time you change mechs.

[Tremendous Upside]

Anyone know if the mech will have 1 or 2-ton jumpjets? To me, the jump capable variant seems most interesting. I know they'll be hover jets regardless, but those times I've been pinned in formation in my DWF and WHK makes me really biased towards mechs that can clear their own sight lines...

[Bandilly]

1 ton JJs, 85t is the cutoff before they become 2t. This and just escaping the point where engines jump up in weight generally makes 85t a better category than 90t.

Spoken like a true member of clan Jade Falcon, worried about jump jets first.

Both jumpers are clones of classic Marauders (the 5D and 5M) so they're a little light on total hard points. You'll have drop larger weapons in then you would on the classic versions cause you're going to have a lot more tonnage to play with.

Edited by Bandilly, 21 November 2016 - 02:23 PM.

[Black Lanner]

Bandilly, on 21 November 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

1 ton JJs, 85t is the cutoff before they become 2t. This and just escaping the point where engines jump up in weight generally makes 85t a better category than 90t.

Spoken like a true member of clan Jade Falcon, worried about jump jets first.

I like the mobility... if the hard point/ omni pod were not an issue, I'd strap JJ's on everything! Well, everything that travels less than 120-ish kph. Black Lanners and Fire Falcons move plenty quickly as to not worry about the need to jump... PGI should make JJ's on Omnis removable and NOT dependent on specific Omni pods... this is my biggest gripe.

Now, about the MAD-IIC-B... JJ's and hard points that includes 5 Energy, 2 Missile, and AMS... LRM's are a NO! I would go a head and take advantage of the AMS, but with it so light on the hard points, what do we do? MPLs and SRMs? 2 LPLs, 3 ERMLs, and SRMs? I really am having a difficult time putting something down that I like, and these options are extremely "try hard" as Snuggles puts it... of course most of the options I have suggested are meta in some form or fashion on other 'Mechs, but at least they seem reasonable to take out (for me) on this chassis... I guess I will strap on ER PPC's... except all but one of the Energy mounts are in the arms, so it isn't that good at poptarting... you have to make sure you clear the arms and that is that second longer air time, with more of the 'Mech exposed...

NOT THRILLED with this machine...

Edited by Black Lanner, 21 November 2016 - 08:11 PM.

[Bandilly]

My 5D runs 3xLPL as the main armament with some SRMs and smaller lasers to mash Alpha when they get closer. I can see similar on the IIC B, you could go brawl mix with 3xLPL, 2xASRM6, 2xMPL, and still have 20 something heat sinks and a slightly larger engine.

Saving most of the ERPPC usage for the main model or +(S). Of course potential quirks might sway how I equip from model to model.

[Tordin]

Interesting. I run one of my 3R's with 4 x LPL and a shitton of DHS. Works wonders! The kinda low-slung arms (just below cockpit in fact) arent much of a problem and gives flexibility, aiming up/ down against pesky targets, prefer that over torso weapons, unless low-elevation peeking.

Edited by Tordin, 22 November 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[Bandilly]

Yeah the Marauder's arms aren't as low as a lot of other mechs. Granted, they aren't high mounts, but they're decent height and not spread too wide, they don't work against you like some mechs arms do.

[Bandilly]

So I do have on concern regarding the early adopter pattern. I tried the Crusader pattern on the classic Marauder and it just doesn't really look like anything, it's definitely not the giant cross the tall broad mechs get. The Crusader pattern looks like a stripe and a few randomly painted parts on the Marauder, not really that different from the default 'no pattern' selection. Hopefully they'll apply Crusader slightly differently to the MAD-IIC or give out a nicer pattern to go with the event. It may be the first mech I actually buy a reusable pattern unlock for, as opposed to just a few one shots...I am after all going to have a lot of MAD-IICs to paint.

[Black Lanner]

Bandilly, on 22 November 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

My 5D runs 3xLPL as the main armament with some SRMs and smaller lasers to mash Alpha when they get closer. I can see similar on the IIC B, you could go brawl mix with 3xLPL, 2xASRM6, 2xMPL, and still have 20 something heat sinks and a slightly larger engine.

Saving most of the ERPPC usage for the main model or +(S). Of course potential quirks might sway how I equip from model to model.

Tordin, on 22 November 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

Interesting. I run one of my 3R's with 4 x LPL and a shitton of DHS. Works wonders! The kinda low-slung arms (just below cockpit in fact) arent much of a problem and gives flexibility, aiming up/ down against pesky targets, prefer that over torso weapons, unless low-elevation peeking.

We have to remember the LPL of the I.S. goes from 21 heat for firing 3 to 36.4 for firing 4, the C-LPL, on the other hand, goes from 20 heat for firing 2 to 37.2 for firing 3... that is why I posted 2 C-LPLs with 3 C-ERML and C-SRMs. As long as you are not going to Alpha left and right, I think 4 C-LPLs and ASRMs might be doable. Then put TAG or a Flamer in that last energy slot for giggles.

[Bandilly]

Black Lanner, on 22 November 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

We have to remember the LPL of the I.S. goes from 21 heat for firing 3 to 36.4 for firing 4, the C-LPL, on the other hand, goes from 20 heat for firing 2 to 37.2 for firing 3... that is why I posted 2 C-LPLs with 3 C-ERML and C-SRMs. As long as you are not going to Alpha left and right, I think 4 C-LPLs and ASRMs might be doable. Then put TAG or a Flamer in that last energy slot for giggles.

Ghost heat was definitely on my mind, just have to be careful when running 3 C-LPL. I usually have the higher mount on my
5D on a separate button, but still use alpha which you would have to be a lot more careful with on the IIC-B. I think I was stretching tonnage a little to tight as well, didn't really count for the JJs. 2 C-LPL with 3 C-ERML or C-MPL would definitely work with some SRMs as well.

I'm not 100% sure what I'll do with the B, I upped myself to the whole set and the D is likely to fill the 3rd xp up slot instead of the B now...with Scorch and the +(S) being #1 and #2.

[Black Lanner]

The MAD-IIC-D is a thing of beauty... I fully expect to see it often and in many different configs. I suspect that we may even see it more often than the C-Bill boosters...