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Lrm Hate Wtf?


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#1 Oldbob10025

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:52 AM

After playing the game over the last couple of days some people are really bitter towards LRM's players new and old alike.

Just some thoughts on how to deal with it and I hope it helps the new players and old players in understanding that this game is a team game not a game where you kill everyone with a paperclip or Call of Duty.

I fear the group that knows what they are doing in a two man LRM/Scout team...

Braces for the hate coming my way as already its come.


Edited by Oldbob10025, 23 November 2016 - 05:08 PM.


#2 Dex Spero

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:16 AM

Enjoyed your video and thought it was a great message that could be expanded to a much broader group of topics than LRMs (i.e. if you don't like how someone is playing or the build someone has, teach them, work with them, etc.).

You mentioned the LRM-haters getting upset over the constant demand for target locks and the fact that some LRM-boat pilots sit 1000 meters back and don't share armor. The only thing I think you missed was the LRM-boat pilots that also demand UAVs. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to put up a UAV for a team win and do so in probably 75% of the games I play. But I know one of my frustrations against LRMers is the demand that I spend 40 000 c-bills to make their build useful.

But as you said, there are ways of using LRMs that are more effective than sitting back and hiding and they definitely have a place in the game. Great post :)

#3 Oldbob10025

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:26 AM

Exactly. I didnt even think about the 40k for a UAV as I do it normally just I want to help out the team and dont really care about 40k as each match I get about 250k and above so its not even a thought for me to drop a UAV to help out the team but I guess others that are watching out for C-bills it would be a thing and thank you for bringing that up.

I dont think its about sharing armor per say but its just the laser vomit boats are in the thick of battle while some LRM boats are 1k away ( I keep under 500 for shorter reach time) but they think they are doing all the work for someone else. You could say the same thing for Gauss/PPC builds that stay 1.5k away but I dont see many people getting upset at them and calling them names in chats with the same argument..

All in all its a team game and if you leave 1-4 people behind because you dont like the LRM boats then you already lost the match and maybe some great friends as well in this great Community.

#4 TheLuc

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:54 AM

Oldbob10025, while there is those players hate LRMs, usually those are also same crowd as the CoD, BF type that knows nothing about BattleTech lore. Hope in the future those players learn what is Battletech instead of brining that WAAC mentality that the BF and CoD community has. LRMs are there for a reason as specified in the fluff.

Then again if PGI would put effort into lore for MWO it would surely change the picture.

BTW always glad to watch a vid from you Bob Posted Image

Edited by TheLuc, 23 November 2016 - 11:56 AM.


#5 BlueFlames

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:59 PM

View PostDex Spero, on 23 November 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

You mentioned the LRM-haters getting upset over the constant demand for target locks and the fact that some LRM-boat pilots sit 1000 meters back and don't share armor. The only thing I think you missed was the LRM-boat pilots that also demand UAVs.


Typically, I keep my LRM-hate quiet in-game, but yesterday, I ran into a guy who pushed all the buttons.

Our one assault mech was a high-shouldered Cyclops 10Q. (Low-shouldered 10Qs are either SRM brawlers or at least someone who's figured out that (A)LRM5s have a tight enough spread to drill CTs.) Granted, the fact that the Cyclops was the only assault on our team was the fault of the matchmaker as much as the player for dropping in that particular build, but it's a scenario that sets me into a foul, cynical mood.

We dropped on the south side of Crimson Strait....against a team with lots of ECM. Demanding locks in that situation, while refusing to advance past the middle tunnel exit is pretty sad, but when the brawl kicked off underneath the platform, the guy kept demanding locks and UAVs and never pushed forward. While my Griffin and other medium/heavy lancemates squared off against the enemy assault lance, underneath a bubble of ECM and a ceiling of impenetrable concrete, this numpty was demanding locks and flinging LRMs at any dorito he spotted for half a second.

That behavior is frustrating enough, when it's just any old assault mech wasting time and tonnage in the back row, but it's worse when it's a Cyclops and the only assault mech on the team. You've got a mobile, durable, 90 ton mech, and when you see that you're on a team of heavies and mediums, you make no effort to adapt your playstyle to the circumstances and just beg for locks, while sitting alone at the back. Really? You're going to be that guy? Come on.... Come on, man....

If you've got an LRM boat that can do its own job, great. If you can read the battlefield and use indirect fire effectively, without demanding that other players be your meatshield, then great. If you'll stay with the main force and put your armor to effective use, then great. If you're doing your job, then by the end of the match, the team won't notice or care that you were using LRMs instead of an equivalent direct-fire sniper build.

On the other hand, if you're going to sit a million miles away and demand that other players adapt their playstyle to yours, so that you can be disengaged from the fight, hoping that your missiles will put up some impressive numbers for you, then you're going to draw hate. That's what the Cyclops did, and that's the kind of behavior that turns some of the more passionate LRM-haters into Sweary McRageface.

#6 Steel Raven

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 01:29 PM

Some people hate LRMs, some people hate Sniping, god knows people complain about the "poke, poke" meta on The Daily Whine.

What it really comes down to is individual play style and how it clashes in pick up games. Brawlers won't be thinking of Lurming, Lurmers won't be thinking of Brawling, snipers will sometimes make up the difference if the find a good position but they sometimes find themselves the odd man out.

#7 Oldbob10025

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 04:16 PM

View PostBlueFlames, on 23 November 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:


Typically, I keep my LRM-hate quiet in-game, but yesterday, I ran into a guy who pushed all the buttons.

Our one assault mech was a high-shouldered Cyclops 10Q. (Low-shouldered 10Qs are either SRM brawlers or at least someone who's figured out that (A)LRM5s have a tight enough spread to drill CTs.) Granted, the fact that the Cyclops was the only assault on our team was the fault of the matchmaker as much as the player for dropping in that particular build, but it's a scenario that sets me into a foul, cynical mood.

We dropped on the south side of Crimson Strait....against a team with lots of ECM. Demanding locks in that situation, while refusing to advance past the middle tunnel exit is pretty sad, but when the brawl kicked off underneath the platform, the guy kept demanding locks and UAVs and never pushed forward. While my Griffin and other medium/heavy lancemates squared off against the enemy assault lance, underneath a bubble of ECM and a ceiling of impenetrable concrete, this numpty was demanding locks and flinging LRMs at any dorito he spotted for half a second.

That behavior is frustrating enough, when it's just any old assault mech wasting time and tonnage in the back row, but it's worse when it's a Cyclops and the only assault mech on the team. You've got a mobile, durable, 90 ton mech, and when you see that you're on a team of heavies and mediums, you make no effort to adapt your playstyle to the circumstances and just beg for locks, while sitting alone at the back. Really? You're going to be that guy? Come on.... Come on, man....

If you've got an LRM boat that can do its own job, great. If you can read the battlefield and use indirect fire effectively, without demanding that other players be your meatshield, then great. If you'll stay with the main force and put your armor to effective use, then great. If you're doing your job, then by the end of the match, the team won't notice or care that you were using LRMs instead of an equivalent direct-fire sniper build.

On the other hand, if you're going to sit a million miles away and demand that other players adapt their playstyle to yours, so that you can be disengaged from the fight, hoping that your missiles will put up some impressive numbers for you, then you're going to draw hate. That's what the Cyclops did, and that's the kind of behavior that turns some of the more passionate LRM-haters into Sweary McRageface.



You know I get this alot from people that hate LRMS that they sit a million miles away and demand UAV's or Locks and they want you to do what they are good at. I do agree that its a bad play style for the LRM boat to have. I try to get in close about 300-500 and let loose and get my own locks with LRM's and if someone gets some for me great but dont demand them as it puts salt in alot of people and I come to play a game for a game (FUN).

The only thing I can say is that I try to teach people to use LRM's on their own and if you get locks great and you have a great team but its not going to be the case and you have to adapt. A good LRM boat can if the situation calls for it

1)Adapts to a changing battlefield
2)Has Situational Awareness
3)Can read the team mates and know the strengths of all the mechs on his or her team. This helps alot
4)For Inner Sphere pilots its really hard with the 180 meter arm radius, so they have to watch EVERYTHING that goes on
5)Sees the Doritos in the open and unloads hell on that guy running from cover to cover
6)Can read that his missiles are only hitting the side of a barn or mountain

Just a couple of things for that

My only suggestion is that try to tell or help the pilot get better as if we call him names or shun him from a game then he or she wont come back and our player base would be next to nothing.

.

#8 Evil Goof

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 04:21 PM

View PostOldbob10025, on 23 November 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

After playing over the game over the last couple of days some people are really bitter towards LRM's players new and old alike.

Just some thoughts on how to deal with it and I hope it helps the new players and old players in understanding that this game is a team game not a game where you kill everyone with a paperclip or Call of Duty.

I fear the group that knows what they are doing in a two man LRM/Scout team...

Braces for the hate coming my way as already its come.



First thing, lrm's and laser vomit are no where near the same. It is much harder to be on the front line, aiming at torsos, twisting and dodging for cover. You could try and debate this, but you would be wrong...completely.

You are right that lrm's are a part of the game. Lore doesn't matter in the slightest here, because this is a first person shooter which lore and table top are not set up for. So the video game plays out much different.

Why is there so much salt??? Well for a couple of reasons. You mention this being a team game and thus a team effort. If you are sitting in the back not sharing your armour, you are not being a good teammate. There are people who stay with the team and use lrm's to great effect. Usually people have no complaints about these players. The vitriol is reserved mostly for the dingbats who show up in lrm Atlas' and are an automatic handicap to the team. There is also a special place in hell for those in lrm Oxide's.... The guy in a well configured Archer with solid backup weapons such as shown in video? Not too many would complain about that guy.

So running a Catapult C1 or Maddog is not going to be where the hate is focused. Saying FU to the majority of the community and running lrm's on a 100 ton assault from the back of the pack will continue to get people rightfully pissed off and is really a troll thing to do. If you love your lrm's, do so as a strong team player and with some basic sense, and you will get your locks.

#9 Timicon

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 04:39 PM

I never really understood the hate against LRMs either, to be honest. They are just like any other weapon in the game and they are there to be used. If people are hating LRMs so much, then it is reasonable for people to also hate SRMs, large lasers, autocannons, gauss rifles and all other weapons.
It is fine if someone chooses not to use LRMs because they feel that it is not like they are actually playing the game (just lock and shoot, no skill involved) but in many a match, LRMs play a big part in the victory of a match and have saved more people than I can count as well as won more matches than I can remember.
Do not hate on LRMs - be glad that they are around, because they make a big difference in how a match plays out and more often than not, determine which side wins a match as opposed to other weapon types.

#10 Oldbob10025

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 05:06 PM

View PostEvil Goof, on 23 November 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

First thing, lrm's and laser vomit are no where near the same. It is much harder to be on the front line, aiming at torsos, twisting and dodging for cover. You could try and debate this, but you would be wrong...completely.

You are right that lrm's are a part of the game. Lore doesn't matter in the slightest here, because this is a first person shooter which lore and table top are not set up for. So the video game plays out much different.

Why is there so much salt??? Well for a couple of reasons. You mention this being a team game and thus a team effort. If you are sitting in the back not sharing your armour, you are not being a good teammate. There are people who stay with the team and use lrm's to great effect. Usually people have no complaints about these players. The vitriol is reserved mostly for the dingbats who show up in lrm Atlas' and are an automatic handicap to the team. There is also a special place in hell for those in lrm Oxide's.... The guy in a well configured Archer with solid backup weapons such as shown in video? Not too many would complain about that guy.

So running a Catapult C1 or Maddog is not going to be where the hate is focused. Saying FU to the majority of the community and running lrm's on a 100 ton assault from the back of the pack will continue to get people rightfully pissed off and is really a troll thing to do. If you love your lrm's, do so as a strong team player and with some basic sense, and you will get your locks.


Attacking a person saying what ever I debate about the difference is about laser vomits and LRM boats is no way to get into this as you put the person on the defensive.

Just want to show you some points and you may like them or not but I hope you see some views.

First thing, lrm's and laser vomit are no where near the same. It is much harder to be on the front line, aiming at torsos, twisting and dodging for cover.
1) I do agree with you about this in some respect as I also play a laser vomit and laser builds and also brawler and its quite hard to dodge and weave from laser fire and LRM's

You are right that lrm's are a part of the game. Lore doesn't matter in the slightest here, because this is a first person shooter which lore and table top are not set up for. So the video game plays out much different.
1) The same tactic is used through out history with canons and even missiles being fired at the enemy to soften up the blow and the same could be said about LRM boats firing at the enemy so the laser vomits and brawers can get in range to get faster kills to win the game. So History does play a part in this game.
2) You say lore has nothing in the game in game but many assault builds were used in every succession war and also in the books to use LRM boats to soften up the blows as well just like history. Granted being implemented into a video game is a bit hard as they have to change some game mechanics but the same concept is in mind for it. If you feel that way I would suggest games like Call of Duty where the player base has no concept of warfare and just jump around and shoot with no concept of team play.

Why is there so much salt??? Well for a couple of reasons. You mention this being a team game and thus a team effort. If you are sitting in the back not sharing your armour, you are not being a good teammate.
1) well you could say the same thing for sniper mechs that sit on the back corner of the map and just shoot PPC's and gauss riffles all day only getting like 100 damage? Everyone on the map is your team mate and its how you use them or help them in the victory of the game is what makes or breaks a game for a win. If you just ignore the LRM boat then you just lost the game unless you use them as a team.

saying FU to the majority of the community and running lrm's on a 100 ton assault from the back of the pack will continue to get people rightfully pissed off and is really a troll thing to do
1) I dont think there are many that use a 100 ton Atlas as a troll build just to piss people off its just that they dont know any better in the game and need some guidance from us "vets" to show them they way of either better builds or show them how to be a GOD Atlas LRM boat. Its just not your game its everyone's game to play and have fun with. Go play World of Tanks for a month and then come back here and tell me what Community is better?

Evil Goof your a Tier 3 pilot and it takes alot to get there and its up to us "Vets to show them the way of the Samurai Posted Image
If not they will leave and well you will be playing with your own blocks in your own sandbox by yourself, and I dont want that my friend I want to have fun in this game and I would drop with you anytime my friend let me know... Were a team and remember that..

#11 Azerius Mezinar

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 06:23 PM

I have a few things to say myself.

As someone who has ran LRM builds for some time, I have been criticized for "wasting" a dire-wolf by putting LRM's on a direwolf build (that also happens to have non-missile armaments that of late, have been getting more kills than the missiles). Only for some of those same people to come out with a win. As far as getting locks go, I find that locking on a target you're shooting at, where possible, helps with accuracy (especially if the enemy has utilized a camouflage paint to blend in with some environments. That, and you help the LRM builds out.

LRMs may not bank a lot of kills in and of themselves, but they ARE a good psychological weapon as unending streams of missile death forces your enemies to disengage from an otherwise winnable combat scenario with the foe they're facing off against.

As for the so-called "Call of Duty" crowd that hates LRMs and the like to the point of not helping their team-mates or trolling them - put bluntly, it has been my experience that they are not terribly good at this game, nor is it a good fit for them. It has been my observation that they do not:

1) follow instructions

2) fight for and with the team, and thus typically wind up being the first players blown up in any given match (excluding fast/light mech scouts whose intelligence gathering goes horribly awry, and they run into 5-ALL of the enemy mechs), and...

3) Control their tempers, and so are prone to throwing tantrums to the point of shooting at team mates (which helps the enemy win) - Ran into one such guy today who shot at and nearly cored my Direwolf because he didn't like my approach to fighting an enemy - needless to say, his reckless actions contributed to me getting killed. Fair warning - doing this is good way to get marked, and once marked, you (the guy that thinks it's cute to shoot at team mates because you're "frustrated") will find yourself dying a lot more because it is decided that the team is better off with you getting abandoned and blown up (keeping within the rules - those who care not will probably just blow you up themselves) since you decided to become the 13th player on the enemy team.

That's right, I said 13th enemy player because such mentality basically gives the enemy team one extra player, and the team you're "on" effectively has one less player so it's 11 vs 13 instead of 12 vs 12 as it should be. Don't be a dezgra - be a team member that your trothkin / battle brothers can count on, and put your ego aside for the greater good of the team! You won't always win, but you will certainly win more games in the long run.

Having said that, this is a team coordination game like you said Old Bob - especially the Community Warfare, which no one really plays anymore (not to the extent that it was in the old days). I think part of the reason is that the defenders are typically heavily favored on some maps, and like I said above, the haters who grief missile-boat players also lack the skill and tactical acumen to play Communiy Warfare (a game mode where you CANNOT just play the way you want and damn everyone else [which is the way they want to play]) - it's a mode where EVERYONE must work together with a unified stratagem to win. Granted, LRM's are not a good choice on most CW maps thanks to the way everything is laid out, but the attitudes present that cause a team with LRMs to lose a regular game will inevitably doom the CW match of any team unfortunate enough to have them aboard to failure.*

What makes people hate LRM's is the fact that they're the only weapon that can ignore a player's direct line of sight so long as targeting information is fed via UAV or another player. What a lot of them don't know is that you can throw off LRM's by shutting your mech down, and then rebooting to get away - once the lock is lost, the missiles will go haywire, and will only seek again if someone is providing them locks (or worse, they never stop seeking because someone is providing targeting information as a ninja sniper). Aside from AMS, you cannot shoot the missiles down and you sometimes cannot shoot back at the guy that's firing them.

Aside from shutting down your mech once behind cover to screw up the locks, a tactic I've seen work against LRM-boat players is to over-run their positions and cut them down - Most LRM-boat builds are not built for close-range engagements, so once a brawler gets in good shooting range with a clean line of sight, it's game over for the LRM unless they've managed to do enough damage, and can try to finish the job with whatever non-missile weapons or SRM's they might have.

Anyways, insightful video, +1. Posted Image

* As an aside, the skilled meta players who discourage LRM use have a solid point about why it's a bad idea to use LRM's in Community Warfare, and they're decently good at the game. They don't grief players who use LRMs, and are willing to give advice and links to solid builds (as my former team mates from Mercstar did for me when I was once in their ranks before going inactive for a year+).

#12 Evil Goof

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 06:36 PM

View PostOldbob10025, on 23 November 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:


Attacking a person saying what ever I debate about the difference is about laser vomits and LRM boats is no way to get into this as you put the person on the defensive.

Just want to show you some points and you may like them or not but I hope you see some views.

First thing, lrm's and laser vomit are no where near the same. It is much harder to be on the front line, aiming at torsos, twisting and dodging for cover.
1) I do agree with you about this in some respect as I also play a laser vomit and laser builds and also brawler and its quite hard to dodge and weave from laser fire and LRM's

You are right that lrm's are a part of the game. Lore doesn't matter in the slightest here, because this is a first person shooter which lore and table top are not set up for. So the video game plays out much different.
1) The same tactic is used through out history with canons and even missiles being fired at the enemy to soften up the blow and the same could be said about LRM boats firing at the enemy so the laser vomits and brawers can get in range to get faster kills to win the game. So History does play a part in this game.
2) You say lore has nothing in the game in game but many assault builds were used in every succession war and also in the books to use LRM boats to soften up the blows as well just like history. Granted being implemented into a video game is a bit hard as they have to change some game mechanics but the same concept is in mind for it. If you feel that way I would suggest games like Call of Duty where the player base has no concept of warfare and just jump around and shoot with no concept of team play.

Why is there so much salt??? Well for a couple of reasons. You mention this being a team game and thus a team effort. If you are sitting in the back not sharing your armour, you are not being a good teammate.
1) well you could say the same thing for sniper mechs that sit on the back corner of the map and just shoot PPC's and gauss riffles all day only getting like 100 damage? Everyone on the map is your team mate and its how you use them or help them in the victory of the game is what makes or breaks a game for a win. If you just ignore the LRM boat then you just lost the game unless you use them as a team.

saying FU to the majority of the community and running lrm's on a 100 ton assault from the back of the pack will continue to get people rightfully pissed off and is really a troll thing to do
1) I dont think there are many that use a 100 ton Atlas as a troll build just to piss people off its just that they dont know any better in the game and need some guidance from us "vets" to show them they way of either better builds or show them how to be a GOD Atlas LRM boat. Its just not your game its everyone's game to play and have fun with. Go play World of Tanks for a month and then come back here and tell me what Community is better?

Evil Goof your a Tier 3 pilot and it takes alot to get there and its up to us "Vets to show them the way of the Samurai Posted Image
If not they will leave and well you will be playing with your own blocks in your own sandbox by yourself, and I dont want that my friend I want to have fun in this game and I would drop with you anytime my friend let me know... Were a team and remember that..

Actually Bob, this is an alt account and I made it into Tier 3 after five matches. My other account is on the border of Tier 1 but I would definitely not describe myself as anything other than a relatively competent pilot.

So you and I are unlikely to agree. That's ok because you are wrong. The majority of the community doesn't appreciate lurm boat as you do and again there is good reason for this. I have seen a lot of lrm Atlas' and King Crabs and by Tier 1 and 2 a player should absolutely know better.

You attempting to defend this by saying it is everyone's game is patently absurd. It is the same with someone who would run around with six flamers and a machine gun, it is as good as an afk. We are not talking history eitherl. Not sure if you understood my point, so I will reiterate. Lore and table top rules don't translate to a FPS, which this game is, like it or not.

Trying to compare lurming to snipers is also not even approaching being a valid point. Watch Div A MRBC. Ranged combat is much harder than brawling (I am a brawler who is working on expanding my game to include competence in both pop tarting and ppc/guass). Players that are trying to get better or work on sniping are a whole different animal than that of the typical lurmer.

Finally you seem to ignore the part where I said your tactics displayed in the video are not the problem... Unfortunately there are too many who like I have mentioned, take away from the team and not do supplement the front line fire power. Since in this game as it is now, this weapon system lends itself to abuse, there will be a general disdain by the competitive community, as well as many others who are competitive in nature and struggle with people who do stupid things and cripple a team they are matched with.

Best of luck in your future endeavours defending the button mashers in the back....

#13 Oldbob10025

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 07:19 PM

View PostEvil Goof, on 23 November 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Actually Bob, this is an alt account and I made it into Tier 3 after five matches. My other account is on the border of Tier 1 but I would definitely not describe myself as anything other than a relatively competent pilot.

So you and I are unlikely to agree. That's ok because you are wrong. The majority of the community doesn't appreciate lurm boat as you do and again there is good reason for this. I have seen a lot of lrm Atlas' and King Crabs and by Tier 1 and 2 a player should absolutely know better.

You attempting to defend this by saying it is everyone's game is patently absurd. It is the same with someone who would run around with six flamers and a machine gun, it is as good as an afk. We are not talking history eitherl. Not sure if you understood my point, so I will reiterate. Lore and table top rules don't translate to a FPS, which this game is, like it or not.

Trying to compare lurming to snipers is also not even approaching being a valid point. Watch Div A MRBC. Ranged combat is much harder than brawling (I am a brawler who is working on expanding my game to include competence in both pop tarting and ppc/guass). Players that are trying to get better or work on sniping are a whole different animal than that of the typical lurmer.

Finally you seem to ignore the part where I said your tactics displayed in the video are not the problem... Unfortunately there are too many who like I have mentioned, take away from the team and not do supplement the front line fire power. Since in this game as it is now, this weapon system lends itself to abuse, there will be a general disdain by the competitive community, as well as many others who are competitive in nature and struggle with people who do stupid things and cripple a team they are matched with.

Best of luck in your future endeavours defending the button mashers in the back....


Actually Bob, this is an alt account and I made it into Tier 3 after five matches. My other account is on the border of Tier 1 but I would definitely not describe myself as anything other than a relatively competent pilot.
1) So not even posting with a real account and the only posts you made with this account is all LRM hate.

So you and I are unlikely to agree. That's ok because you are wrong.
1)Well with the only posts you made with a alt account is saying i'm wrong well I guess were not going to agree with anything with personal attacks but thats ok I guess.

The majority of the community doesn't appreciate lurm boat as you do and again there is good reason for this. I have seen a lot of lrm Atlas' and King Crabs and by Tier 1 and 2 a player should absolutely know better.
1)So your solution is to alienate the person by calling them out on how stupid they are playing a build like that is the best way to win this situation? Kinda one sided and you must LOSE a lot of games because of that or are you the player that sits back while your team gets slaughtered and then come in and get five kills to make yourself feel better.
2)Best option other than alienate the team member is to work with them and have them join a team or is COD a better game for you? but thats just me i'm a team player and work as a team not as a Call of Duty Player.

You attempting to defend this by saying it is everyone's game is patently absurd. It is the same with someone who would run around with six flamers and a machine gun, it is as good as an afk. We are not talking history eitherl. Not sure if you understood my point, so I will reiterate. Lore and table top rules don't translate to a FPS, which this game is, like it or not.
1)Well it is every ones game and not only yours if I want to run around in a Shadowcat with 7 machineGuns well I will and have fun doing it as well and you cant stop me from doing so.Its how you deal with it is what troubles me so far with your attitude towards LRM boats in general. So much hate in you. Not sure your understanding my point
2)Yes I do know what your talking about with being able to translate from a boardgame to a FPS, and in my last points I proved it that history does translate to a FPS but your not understanding but thats ok you can just go on killing team members for playing LRM boats.

Trying to compare lurming to snipers is also not even approaching being a valid point. Watch Div A MRBC. Ranged combat is much harder than brawling (I am a brawler who is working on expanding my game to include competence in both pop tarting and ppc/guass). Players that are trying to get better or work on sniping are a whole different animal than that of the typical lurmer.
1)I'm not saying ranged combat is harder or easy to LRMs what I was saying that you seem to not get and many people dont get is that most of the points are "Well they are not sharing armor" the same point can be said about snipers because they snipe from 1.6k away and dont share armor as well. But you will never get that and your wrong but thats ok.
2)All play styles are fine and useful in a team game and you seem to think that LRMing would make or break a game but if you work as a Team, Oh oh I said that word you dont know about then you would win more games in general.

Finally you seem to ignore the part where I said your tactics displayed in the video are not the problem... Unfortunately there are too many who like I have mentioned, take away from the team and not do supplement the front line fire power. Since in this game as it is now, this weapon system lends itself to abuse, there will be a general disdain by the competitive community, as well as many others who are competitive in nature and struggle with people who do stupid things and cripple a team they are matched with.
1)You know I had this same problem with Star Trek online with people like you (elite's)... The only way is the meta build and thats it nothing else would matter and if you use another build that does less than X amount of DPS then your stupid and your wrong and (imput name here).
You have to ask yourself a question.Do you think that your way of shunning a mass player base that uses LRMS is the right way and make them go play another game? Or do you think that you can try to better the community by showing the players that cant use LRM's a better build that they might like, therefore you get the players who cant play LRMS very well on better builds and keep the ones that can play LRM boats? Or just play your own little competitive player base and be fine with that? Because LRM's are not going away anytime soon and will be in the game NO MATER WHAT YOU SAY OR DO.

Best of luck in your future endeavours defending the button mashers in the back....
1)Thank you and I will defend the player base on what ever builds they do even if they dont know how to play LRM boats as I will try to teach them another build they might like or help them be a better LRM boat pilot, as its the players that make up this game and the fun we have as a community together.

I expected some hate but WOW you have alot of hate in you for the players in this game thats to only be fun. When Snuggles time made his video I chatted with him a bit and he was surprised on the HATE some people bring to a fun game.

#14 radiv

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 12:46 AM

View PostTimicon, on 23 November 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

I never really understood the hate against LRMs either, to be honest. They are just like any other weapon in the game and they are there to be used. If people are hating LRMs so much, then it is reasonable for people to also hate SRMs, large lasers, autocannons, gauss rifles and all other weapons.
It is fine if someone chooses not to use LRMs because they feel that it is not like they are actually playing the game (just lock and shoot, no skill involved) but in many a match, LRMs play a big part in the victory of a match and have saved more people than I can count as well as won more matches than I can remember.
Do not hate on LRMs - be glad that they are around, because they make a big difference in how a match plays out and more often than not, determine which side wins a match as opposed to other weapon types.


People dont like lurmers cus they boat them and then fights from behind a rock. So no theyr not at all comparable to SRMs, large lasers, autocannons, gauss rifles and all other weapons.

Yes lrms win matches, but mostly they loose matches. And the worst way to loose is by having teammates that fights like cowards, dont share theyr armor, and in the end opponent team win with high numbers.

If lrms had 500meters maxrange they would be better in quickplay...

#15 Ukos

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 01:06 AM

I play an Lrm Stalker and lots of brawly mediums and harrasing lights, like a lot of the people that have decried the LRM users i get annoyed by assault snipers and LRM boats that dont get involved in the fight and play the game with the rest of us Clan Mechs have even less excuse for doing this as they have no dead zone.

What irritates me on the receiving side of overwhelming LRM rains is that their is no interaction over than to sit and watch components melt off your mech. If someone is shooting direct weapons at me i can try to dodge and evade and it becomes a game where my opponent is trying to predict my movement to tag me and I'm trying to get to cover before it all goes mammaries vertical with the lrms it doesnt matter as long as they can see me the game does the work for them. This is worst experienced on Polar highlands where its flatsville with sod all cover if you want to fight close in.

#16 Steel Raven

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 01:45 AM

View PostUkos, on 24 November 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

What irritates me on the receiving side of overwhelming LRM rains is that their is no interaction over than to sit and watch components melt off your mech. If someone is shooting direct weapons at me i can try to dodge and evade and it becomes a game where my opponent is trying to predict my movement to tag me and I'm trying to get to cover before it all goes mammaries vertical with the lrms it doesnt matter as long as they can see me the game does the work for them. This is worst experienced on Polar highlands where its flatsville with sod all cover if you want to fight close in.

Think the two most common thing people find me shouting over the mic is "Kill that UAV!" or "Kill that damn spotter!" when the other team has two competent LRM monsters who want to reenact the B33Fs Maximum LRM video from behind a hill and I for whatever reason can't break their lock.

Whenever I try LRMs, I loss my lock when my missiles are in mid flight but then I have that one game when the enemies Clan LRMs are following me over a hill and across the rest of the damn map like the damn balls from The Phantasm.

Then I hop in a Griffin 2N or Hellbringer the next game and make them hate life.

#17 The Basilisk

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 03:28 AM

While I count myself to the more hardcore Battletech Lore fans,
(not the beraved, raging ones but the ones that think this game is all but a sham in hinsight of its claim to be a Battletech Game, there was just a guy that thought about selling a big stompy robot shooter, and found BFGs cool and searched for a theme with a fanbase to extort that was craving for a nowadays take on their favorit game) I just do not think playing LRMs or supporting ppl with LRM heavy builds has anything to do with teamwork.

This opinion has several reasons:

-- The largest share of what I see from ppl piloting LRM mechs is simply moneygrabbing on cost of their teammates. plain and simple.
Why would I say this ?
Because I've seen the very same ppl playing direct fire builds to great effectiveness killing enemys with few shots making the kills but not much money.
So what do they do ?
Play LBX and SRM frontline builds for fast kills with high dps aiding their team with armor and shock effects ?
No they stand back distribute dmg over half the enemy team, artificialy inflating their dmg values for personal gain with little worth for their team despite their high PSR.
So get this high PSR pilots standing back while their low tier comrades get torn appart from their peers without a bit of a chance.

-- The next large group of LRM players are even harder to endure when you spectate them. Those that play LRMs because they simply can't successfully play other weapons. Actually this is quite ok since they won'T be of much use to their team anyways.
The Problem is...this way they do not learn anything from playing the way they do.
Red bracket, poor try to get the reticule on it, fire, complain why nobody holds locks for them to get their kills.

-- Lore ... yes I know few want to hear about this...but LRMs are simply and utterly wrong in their Implementaition.
Beginning with TAG not beeing LRM gear but rather part of the Arrow IV artillery system.
Further LRMs should not be directed versus single targets when fired indirectly but rather versus areas.
IS LRMs are ballistic missiles that use their fuel up in the first 180m of their flight...what also is one of the reasons for them not to be armed in their first flight phase.
Also the Range of LRMs isn't 1000m but 630m they aren't meant for "longrange" in terms of nowadays artillery.
Battletech LRMs are more like fast flying guided mortar shells than single guided missiles how you might immagine them from Aircrafts.
Imagine them as a swarm of explosives that try to go where you point them ... no "lock on" involved just point at the target, your battlecomp says "bing" and you trigger the stuff that goes wooosh.
Clan LRMs however do not suffer this downside...how they do work is a bit of a blanche spot in lore.

Edit....yes from time to time I do drive LRM builds for troll or fun builds....and I honestly don't care what other ppl do in QP single player queue since all and everything about those .... teams....is random.
It just does not matter since ppl playing meta builds without understanding their workings...or playing non meta builds without understanding the mechanics of their weapons are just as bad as any LRMer.
It....just.....does.....not.....matter.

At its curent state with random builds and random maps and random ppl thrown together this game is more arbitarry RNG Jesus worshiping than the tabletop could ever be.

Edited by The Basilisk, 24 November 2016 - 03:43 AM.


#18 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 04:23 AM

The fact that there is an "LRM hate" crowd (of which I am a part of) is quite sad indeed.
However, what is more sad is that 95% of the time this hate is fully justified.

#19 Tarm Kozyrev

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 03:06 PM

My thoughts on LRM builds - from some who has played this game off and on since open beta and loves a good LRM build.

1.) LRMS are an effective combat multiplier when used properly - the LRM boat pilot has to use them properly as well as the rest of the team in order to get the full (and literal) bang for the buck.

2.) Any self respecting LRM pilot will not only have plenty of LRM and rounds, but also a competent back up weapon(s). For instance, a few launchers and then as many lasers you can carry. Ideally, more than three, I think. On one of my accounts I have the loyalty Stalker. 4xlrm5 backed up by six med lasers. Nothing ruins the day of someone hunting the LRM boat down than receiving all six lasers to the face.

3.) one poster hit on another fact that I want to reiterate (and I think it was the OP). A constant barrage of LRMS - even lrm5 - can put you psychologically on the defensive. Walking through a hailstorm of missiles is no easy feat, especially if you want to keep your armor for the eventual brawl. On that note I would also strongly recommend that LRM pilots learn how to chain fire their missiles. This helps with heat management, as well as keeping the overall missile load in something closer to a constant stream. If nothing else, the continual volleys of missiles will slowly eat up the opponents AMS, which only makes further LRM volleys that much more efffective.

4.) Lastly, I wish people would pick up on a couple of very important points about LRM builds. First, they don't do jack beyond 1000m, and the less flight time they have the more likely they are to hit the target, even if target lock is dropped mid-flight (I don't have hard numbers on that so feel free to support or argue this point). Also, inner sphere missiles need 180m before they arm, which means they're useless at such short range. Thus, a good reason to load as many lasers as you can - and then chain fire those too to manage heat and have a chance to re-aim for each shot to be effective. After all, if you're gonna fire something, you might as well try to hit the soft spots. Finally, some maps are conducive to LRM use while others are not. So areas of many maps almost intrinsically forbid the use of missiles because there is so much overhead cover, or steep hills or other obstacles. If you're wasting missiles on the cliff face you're using for cover on Canyon, you're not doing a damn bit of good for your team.

If LRM pilots used these tips they will find a dramatic increase in their effectiveness. There is little better than a couple of good LRM Boat pilots providing excellent indirect fire support for the brawlers over the course of the game. It's a team effort, and regardless of your play style, you need to contribute. No contribution - effective contribution, that is - means your team fails and you lose, which means PSR drops, fewer C-Bills, and then people don't like the game AND you get to listen to people hate on and flame the LRM boat.

#20 Evil Goof

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 11:06 PM

View PostOldbob10025, on 23 November 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:


Actually Bob, this is an alt account and I made it into Tier 3 after five matches. My other account is on the border of Tier 1 but I would definitely not describe myself as anything other than a relatively competent pilot.
1) So not even posting with a real account and the only posts you made with this account is all LRM hate.

So you and I are unlikely to agree. That's ok because you are wrong.
1)Well with the only posts you made with a alt account is saying i'm wrong well I guess were not going to agree with anything with personal attacks but thats ok I guess.

The majority of the community doesn't appreciate lurm boat as you do and again there is good reason for this. I have seen a lot of lrm Atlas' and King Crabs and by Tier 1 and 2 a player should absolutely know better.
1)So your solution is to alienate the person by calling them out on how stupid they are playing a build like that is the best way to win this situation? Kinda one sided and you must LOSE a lot of games because of that or are you the player that sits back while your team gets slaughtered and then come in and get five kills to make yourself feel better.
2)Best option other than alienate the team member is to work with them and have them join a team or is COD a better game for you? but thats just me i'm a team player and work as a team not as a Call of Duty Player.

You attempting to defend this by saying it is everyone's game is patently absurd. It is the same with someone who would run around with six flamers and a machine gun, it is as good as an afk. We are not talking history eitherl. Not sure if you understood my point, so I will reiterate. Lore and table top rules don't translate to a FPS, which this game is, like it or not.
1)Well it is every ones game and not only yours if I want to run around in a Shadowcat with 7 machineGuns well I will and have fun doing it as well and you cant stop me from doing so.Its how you deal with it is what troubles me so far with your attitude towards LRM boats in general. So much hate in you. Not sure your understanding my point
2)Yes I do know what your talking about with being able to translate from a boardgame to a FPS, and in my last points I proved it that history does translate to a FPS but your not understanding but thats ok you can just go on killing team members for playing LRM boats.

Trying to compare lurming to snipers is also not even approaching being a valid point. Watch Div A MRBC. Ranged combat is much harder than brawling (I am a brawler who is working on expanding my game to include competence in both pop tarting and ppc/guass). Players that are trying to get better or work on sniping are a whole different animal than that of the typical lurmer.
1)I'm not saying ranged combat is harder or easy to LRMs what I was saying that you seem to not get and many people dont get is that most of the points are "Well they are not sharing armor" the same point can be said about snipers because they snipe from 1.6k away and dont share armor as well. But you will never get that and your wrong but thats ok.
2)All play styles are fine and useful in a team game and you seem to think that LRMing would make or break a game but if you work as a Team, Oh oh I said that word you dont know about then you would win more games in general.

Finally you seem to ignore the part where I said your tactics displayed in the video are not the problem... Unfortunately there are too many who like I have mentioned, take away from the team and not do supplement the front line fire power. Since in this game as it is now, this weapon system lends itself to abuse, there will be a general disdain by the competitive community, as well as many others who are competitive in nature and struggle with people who do stupid things and cripple a team they are matched with.
1)You know I had this same problem with Star Trek online with people like you (elite's)... The only way is the meta build and thats it nothing else would matter and if you use another build that does less than X amount of DPS then your stupid and your wrong and (imput name here).
You have to ask yourself a question.Do you think that your way of shunning a mass player base that uses LRMS is the right way and make them go play another game? Or do you think that you can try to better the community by showing the players that cant use LRM's a better build that they might like, therefore you get the players who cant play LRMS very well on better builds and keep the ones that can play LRM boats? Or just play your own little competitive player base and be fine with that? Because LRM's are not going away anytime soon and will be in the game NO MATER WHAT YOU SAY OR DO.

Best of luck in your future endeavours defending the button mashers in the back....
1)Thank you and I will defend the player base on what ever builds they do even if they dont know how to play LRM boats as I will try to teach them another build they might like or help them be a better LRM boat pilot, as its the players that make up this game and the fun we have as a community together.

I expected some hate but WOW you have alot of hate in you for the players in this game thats to only be fun. When Snuggles time made his video I chatted with him a bit and he was surprised on the HATE some people bring to a fun game.

No Bob this is a real account. I would almost think you were trying to infer something but no matter as it doesn't validate your point or invalidate mine.

As far as the hate, I am laughing at your focus on Call of Duty while white knighting against the hate for lurms... Kinda ironic.

As well you talk about being a good team mate. Again bravo for your play in the video. This was a great example of how to play a lurm boat without pissing people off and while being a member of the team. If anything in your promotion of lurms, I hope that your advocation of this style of play catches on more.

Where the frustration and salt comes from however is this particular weapons systems being easy to abuse. Such as lrm King Crabs, and Atlas'... as well as those who lurm from the very back and freak out if you don't rush and save them from an astute light pilot. Are people able to run troll builds and really stupid lrm builds? Yes they certainly are... No doubt about it they are, and people do.

Perhaps there is multiple approaches for this issue. One being yours, were you seem to be advocating being part of the team and playing smart. The other approach that is and will be done by the community, is calling out people who do stupid things....like an lrm Atlas. Those who continue, without any regard for the community that they play in and with, will do so without help and with some salt thrown their way from time to time. As much as lrm's aren't going away, the disdain for players abusing them is also not going away and there is nothing you can do to stop that...

Finally an addendum, to explain some of the hate...
Polar Highlands. PGI in some ways have actually done some pretty strong work in balancing the game. Not perfect, but certainly not that bad. However, one oversight is to simply sort out players by tier and tonnage. This isn't horrible, but when you land on Polar in a team full of brawling mechs, and the other side has a narcing Raven and six lrm boats....
To be completely slaughtered without the slightest chance of success is infuriating. It really takes away from the game. That there is not a mechanic to limit two or maximum three lrm boats and to ensure that they don't all end up on one team is really short sighted. The other way applies too, as I have swung around on Canyon while in a brawling team and did terrible, terrible things to lrm boats.

In short, this is a balance question that seems to not come up (that I have heard anyway). On top of this they buffed lrm's in the last patch...





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