307 replies to this topic

[Darkhorse13Golf]

Hoshi Toranaga, on 29 November 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

I think honestly the problem with LRM boats is not LRM boats it is many of the people who play them.

Many LRM people think that LRM is "easy mode". Hang back wait for locks and fire... thats it. No moving, no tight fight etc. just get kills for free.

However I think LRM (and PPC to an extend) can be extremely useful, but are more complicated to play than some other weapon systems as they both have a min range and you need to know your engagement time (flight time etc.).
Also I still think that 100% boats are useless. Yes a full AC or laser vomit works, as it works from max range to standing in front of the enemy. If a good team manages to shorten it to a brawl your LRM only boat is useless.

Then about tactics and flight times. Yes some mechs have quirks on that and honestly Clan LRM have a slight disadvantage here (why I dislike Clan LRM20s). If you have a good opponent with ECM or good terrain usage you can pin them to a degree, but you will be hugely more effective closing range to mid to close LRM range, possibly even sharing some armor from sniper shots. I know some pilots with LRM/Laser stalker builds that are awesome in doing this. One some mechs with LRM velocity quirks this can result in fast rain of death if he comes out for the sniper shot, gets Narc -> boom.

Many "non meta" builds are very underrated in that way, it also depends on playstyle. But I hate LRM easy mode guys, that even if things go south cannot close in to share armor and still be effective. Even in tabletop games we called them mindless LRM bots and they did not work there and certainly will not work in MWO which is much faster paced. There is no easy mode in MWO.

The thing that is even worse is, that in some low tier games that tactic even works and those easy mode people get re-assured that it is the teams fault if they are useless...

The same goes for mindless snipers, camping for 10min like idiots not hitting anything and then wondering why they are chased down after the rest is already dead, as their 100ton jump sniper is at 100% armor...

You hit it right on the head. Aggressive, proactive lurming can be highly effective and takes some time to learn but is fun. Like I stated earlier in the thread, minimap and battlefield awareness, movement, close quarters fighting and prioritizing is the skill set needed by a lurmer nowadays.

Edited by Darkhorse13Golf, 29 November 2016 - 06:37 AM.

[VorpalAnvil]

Another pro lurm player in action:

[Torezu]

Rismonite, on 28 November 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

...when built to be quick with fast sensor pickup I have found many an intangible value and underestimated power behind LRMs;

-When you are running with the team, your DPS has great uptime.

-You would be surprised how many times I have noticed people angle to shield against the advancing brawler while my missiles get rear armor or even CT. Then, once they see the lrms come in they start twisting and the pushing mech gets to cherry pick CT shots.

-Aiming, I like my PPCs, but I certainly don't have to worry about zooming in, leading my target, or spreading my fire badly..

-I have watched people's aim get poor when the screen shake starts and suddenly become terrible at shots just 350 meters away.

There are a few known drawbacks. Mostly being just a small laser when a light finds me, and maps, in particular the tunnel invasion at Crimson Straight, where the dock mostly knocks down all my missiles unless fired close. EDIT, also, during the peekaboo phase of quick play games, my commitment to team becomes scout until the fights really get started. I have dumbfired lrms to a peekaboo spot and had them land on people camping a spot too, good laffs were had.

While I agree with most of the drawbacks, I'd add that a good LRM boat pilot doesn't have to be fast - it's just helpful. I run a Mauler-1R with three ALRM-15s and a pair of LPLs (all the energy points I have). It's basically a sledgehammer to your Catapult's electric drill. If I'm running between 300 and 400 meters to target, I can share armor, not worry about shooting teammates as you said, and watch enemy assaults and heavies have trouble aiming from the hammer blows. If I get consistent targets, I'll fire just a pair of them at a time (from RT) for heat load and try to keep that distance of 3-400, firing the LPLs if I can get a clear shot.

On the matches I've run out of ammo (every 4 or 5, probably), I hit 900-1100 damage and usually 2-4 kills. No, the damage isn't as pinpoint accurate as with DF weapons, but you also don't need LoS to every target to help your team.

[Evil Goof]

Darkhorse13Golf, on 29 November 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

So basically you are saying people who are trying to make chassis work that aren't cookie cutter elitist mindless meta are ruining the game. I'm sorry, I think it's kind of fun taking an unloved chassis and tinkering until it works. I'm working on the Vindicator right now and run Molten Metal's build with the 1X which is actually effective and found a harassment build for the 1R that isn't useless.

The point is, get over yourself. You got annoyed over a pair of LRM boats and a Cataphract? I call ******** that they were completely useless as you say. Just because they aren't mindlessly following the meta doesn't mean much really.

I think a major part of this game is making things work and tinkering. A lot of the fun for me is taking 'Mechs and going against the grain. Doesn't always work but a lot of times it does. I have a Thunderbolt that I turned into a lurmer/lurmer bodyguard that can switch to frontline duty and back again as needed. (5 MPL, 2 LRM-10A w/7.5 tons of ammo, a 300 XL-rather have a Standard but it is what it is, 12 DHS and 416/422 armor, this thing moves at 80 kph after speed tweak).

My point is that this is a game and if people want to try wacky **** and not be a meta drone for a while well....why not? I usually give a build a few tries before giving up on it so if you run across a player with a build that isn't working out chances are they won't be running it long.

You can argue all you like about meta and boring builds. You can also argue that the sky is purple. You will not be right in either case. If you for a second think that you can effectively with a couple other guys lurm against some of the top players in the game I have an advance copy of MW5 Mercs to sell you...

Not sure why you would think that somehow this is ego. I have also said it is not about following meta to a t, but you simply are not digesting that. Maybe comprehension is not your strong suit. To reiterate for you, I am talking about bringing builds that are competitive and that do not become a detriment to your team. Bringing really stupid things like an lrm Atlas is coming into a match while giving the middle finger to your team.

Am a big fan of Snuggles Time, and his boom Raven. He is however pretty upfront about how many games it takes to get the one he gets to show. There is certainly room for fun builds and messing around. However, what is frustrating is the guys who bring nonsense time after time.

That you throw in your T-bolt build and actually think it is effective in any way means you are pretty much hopeless and I have no idea who it is you are playing against or where this would be effective. Especially running an XL. A pilot with a half decent mech and less skill than yourself would find you an easy target. That is just how it is. You may not like the reality of the mech's hit boxes, but that doesn't make them magically go away.

In short you can argue and hate meta and perhaps throw your hatred of COD players as well. It will not change what is actually effective in the game and what is not. You can always try and make stupid stuff 'work' and every so often you may get a good game (as your team carries you).

Edit. BTW did you see any of the MWO World Championships? Did you notice not one of the team had a single lurmer...hmmm, interesting huh?

Edited by Evil Goof, 05 December 2016 - 11:23 PM.

[Trynn Allen]

Quote

Edit. BTW did you see any of the MWO World Championships? Did you notice not one of the team had a single lurmer...hmmm, interesting huh?

Sure. It's Solaris. What good is LRMs in the arena's at Solaris?

As a LONNNGGG time LURMer, from even way back in the tabletop days even, a couple of observations. The haters of LRMs don't seem to have or have never noticed operating under an effective LRM umbrella. It's he stole my kill, you didn't provide support when I needed it; did you call for it? Am I omniscient and tap you brain to see where you were and needed help? Or did you just sit there and b%^ch about how useless the LRM carriers where?

So in the interest of LRM carriers and providers of both direct and indirect fire, a couple of notes.

1.) Sharing armor is a pointless argument. It really is. Not on the merits of spreading damage, all for that, but on the grounds that effective LRM cover shouldn't be close enough for the argument to come up. Effective LRM cover starts at 800m but under 400 is pointless and the team needs to remove themselves from that situation.

2.) It requires excellent communications between the LRM providers at the very least, for concentration of fire. If forward spotting is available and talkative, even better.

3.) Needs at least one mech with Advanced Target Decay. Why? 3.5 seconds with the right team is almost 2.5 volleys...AFTER the "lock" is broken. This is critical because depending on the team that's another 100 plus missiles on target, after it assumes it has broken away.

Editted for comments.

Edited by Trynn Allen, 06 December 2016 - 09:40 AM.

[MacClearly]

Trynn Allen, on 06 December 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

Sure. It's Solaris. What good is LRMs in the arena's at Solaris?

As a LONNNGGG time LURMer, from even way back in the tabletop days even, a couple of observations. The haters of LRMs don't seem to have or have never noticed operating under an effective LRM umbrella. It's he stole my kill, you didn't provide support when I needed it; did you call for it? Am I omniscient and tap you brain to see where you were and needed help? Or did you just sit there and b%^ch about how useless the LRM carriers where?

So in the interest of LRM carriers and providers of both direct and indirect fire, a couple of notes.

1.) Sharing armor is a pointless argument. It really is. Not on the merits of spreading damage, all for that, but on the grounds that effective LRM cover shouldn't be close enough for the argument to come up. Effective LRM cover starts at 800m but under 400 is pointless and the team needs to remove themselves from that situation.

2.) It requires excellent communications between the LRM providers at the very least, for concentration of fire. If forward spotting is available and talkative, even better.

3.) Needs at least one mech with Advanced Target Decay. Why? 3.5 seconds with the right team is almost 2.5 volleys...AFTER the "lock" is broken. This is critical because depending on the team that's another 100 plus missiles on target, after it assumes it has broken away.

Editted for comments.

No sharing armour is in no way shape or reason a pointless argument. To say it is, is patently absurd. It is however along the lines of nonsense like 'an effective lrm umbrella'. This is because to have an effective lrm umbrella you need an organised team, especially one with one or two narcing mechs or self narcing lurmers. Something that doesn't happen very often in quick play and group que when it does happen it is much easier to counter than well...EVER SINGLE OTHER STRATEGY IN THE GAME. (unless you get polar highlands) You also do not get any sort of effective player from someone who insists on lurming from 800 metres away because the flight time makes countering it even easier.

Then for you to say something like matches between top teams on Canyon is like Solaris, so that is why there is no lurms.... It's right there above, you actually said this gibberish ABOUT A MAP THAT IS VERY LURM FRIENDLY!!!! Sorry to burst your window licking bubble, but the reason top tier teams don't use it as a strategy is because it is absolute crap and ineffective.

[Trynn Allen]

Yeah armor sharing is pointless. It's not the point of an LRM mech to be anywhere near where sharing armor is important. It's there to rain. It is there to suppress, it isn't about sharing the incoming damage.

And here I thought that the game was ABOUT team building. I think I saw it in the literature somewhere. Yeah I'm sure I did. So it says more about the players that DON'T step up and try to build the teams that make them work than it does about those that don't.

And I'll say it again too, because they are MATCHES! It's Solaris all over again. What's the objective of Solaris? Most damage up front. PERIOD. It's not a game it's a slaughter, it's munchkining at it's finest. The finesse is the firstest with the mostest. They don't count because it goes wholly counter to the point of the rest of the game/lore...EXCEPT Solaris. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A SLUGFEST! It's supposed to be a enough damage to push them off the map, or did that part escape you?

[BlueFlames]

Trynn Allen, on 06 December 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

Sure. It's Solaris. What good is LRMs in the arena's at Solaris?

Solaris is free-for-all. The tournament was 8v8 team matches. You seem to be arguing that LRMs are some great boon to the team, when used properly, and yet in competitive team play, LRMs are notably absent. What good are LRMs to teams?

Trynn Allen, on 06 December 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

Am I omniscient and tap you brain to see where you were and needed help? Or did you just sit there and b%^ch about how useless the LRM carriers where?

You go on to say that you feel that the ideal range for a LRM boat to sit is somewhere beyond 400m and within 800m. If you're sitting that far back from the fight, then presumably, you have a better view of the entire battlefield than people locked in a close-range brawl. Are you keeping a wider view of the battlefield, or are you tunnel-visioning on the first dorito you see? Sitting far back means that you're the closest thing to omniscient that anyone in the match is going to get.

Trynn Allen, on 06 December 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

1.) Sharing armor is a pointless argument ... on the grounds that effective LRM cover shouldn't be close enough for the argument to come up. Effective LRM cover starts at 800m but under 400 is pointless and the team needs to remove themselves from that situation.

Yeahhh.... You're the worst. The team only has so many hitpoints to go around, and as mechs go down, the team's collective firepower is reduced. If damaged mechs rotate back and fresh mechs rotate forward, then damaged mechs can continue dealing damage that otherwise wouldn't have been dealt. If the fresh mechs can't or won't rotate forward because they think that being within 400m of the enemy is pointless, then the hostile team will gain an advantage.

Also, "The team needs to remove itself from that situation." Yeah, no. In closed beta, LRMs were powerful enough that the match revolved around keeping the LRM boats alive. Closed beta ended four years ago, and LRMs don't deal nine damage-per-missile anymore. LRMs are not a sufficient asset for the team's efforts to revolve entirely around keeping one or more LRM boat(s) alive. They don't deal ludicrous amounts of damage; the damage they do deal splatters ineffectively all over the target, and as evidenced by your own post, they encourage a style of play that is detrimental to the team's success.

Edited by BlueFlames, 06 December 2016 - 11:52 AM.

[MacClearly]

Trynn Allen, on 06 December 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

Yeah armor sharing is pointless. It's not the point of an LRM mech to be anywhere near where sharing armor is important. It's there to rain. It is there to suppress, it isn't about sharing the incoming damage.

And here I thought that the game was ABOUT team building. I think I saw it in the literature somewhere. Yeah I'm sure I did. So it says more about the players that DON'T step up and try to build the teams that make them work than it does about those that don't.

And I'll say it again too, because they are MATCHES! It's Solaris all over again. What's the objective of Solaris? Most damage up front. PERIOD. It's not a game it's a slaughter, it's munchkining at it's finest. The finesse is the firstest with the mostest. They don't count because it goes wholly counter to the point of the rest of the game/lore...EXCEPT Solaris. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A SLUGFEST! It's supposed to be a enough damage to push them off the map, or did that part escape you?

I am not at all shocked that you do not understand how absolutely stupid not sharing armour is, or why lurming from the back is bad. It is also completely understandable that you think being a detriment and handicap to your team is not your fault from lurming from the back, but on others.

I see however that you have a foolish idea that lore has any part of the actual game we play. Probably why you say extraordinarily stupid things like it not being a slug fest and 'pushing' teams off the map.... This is a first person shooter game that uses arena combat. YOU DON'T AND CAN'T PUSH ANYTHING OFF THE MAP. IT IS NOT THE POINT OF THE GAME THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE AND ARE PLAYING. How this is unclear or how you refuse to see it is spectacular. We also do not have solaris yet. It doesn't exist in this game as we have it. MRBC and the World Championships were about 8v8 competitive teams on ACTUAL MAPS USED IN THE GAME THAT ARE NOT SOLARIS BECAUSE SOLARIS DOESN'T EXIST IN THIS GAME.

Obviously you will never have the facility to comprehend why 12 mechs shooting and pushing into 9 or 10 mechs while someone is 'raining' missles down (spreading damage all over if he is hitting anything at all) is not a good or effective strategy. I don't imagine that anyone will ever be able to reach or get through to you especially when you are entrenched in lore and how it might be applicable in game.

[MacClearly]

BlueFlames, on 06 December 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Solaris is free-for-all. The tournament was 8v8 team matches. You seem to be arguing that LRMs are some great boon to the team, when used properly, and yet in competitive team play, LRMs are notably absent. What good are LRMs to teams?


You go on to say that you feel that the ideal range for a LRM boat to sit is somewhere beyond 400m and within 800m. If you're sitting that far back from the fight, then presumably, you have a better view of the entire battlefield than people locked in a close-range brawl. Are you keeping a wider view of the battlefield, or are you tunnel-visioning on the first dorito you see? Sitting far back means that you're the closest thing to omniscient that anyone in the match is going to get.


Yeahhh.... You're the worst. The team only has so many hitpoints to go around, and as mechs go down, the team's collective firepower is reduced. If damaged mechs rotate back and fresh mechs rotate forward, then damaged mechs can continue dealing damage that otherwise wouldn't have been dealt. If the fresh mechs can't or won't rotate forward because they think that being within 400m of the enemy is pointless, then the hostile team will gain an advantage.

Also, "The team needs to remove itself from that situation." Yeah, no. In closed beta, LRMs were powerful enough that the match revolved around keeping the LRM boats alive. Closed beta ended four years ago, and LRMs don't deal nine damage-per-missile anymore. LRMs are not a sufficient asset for the team's efforts to revolve entirely around keeping one or more LRM boat(s) alive. They don't deal ludicrous amounts of damage; the damage they do deal splatters ineffectively all over the target, and as evidenced by your own post, they encourage a style of play that is detrimental to the team's success.

Much calmer and more elliequent than I am able to respond to this guy. What I find really frustrating is this guy is not just trolling and actually believes this nonsense. It is like arguing with someone from the flat earth society...

[Trynn Allen]

And you're like arguing with the Cannoncockers of the 1920's Navies. So take heart the feelings mutual.

As for the difference of perspective... I'm arguing for what the game should be, not the FPS drek that it usually is.

Edited by Trynn Allen, 06 December 2016 - 01:06 PM.

[Tesunie]

I'll open up here by saying that I'm seeing a lot of personal attacks in this thread. Instead of discussing the topic, I'm seeing anger. I've also noticed a little chest thumping about PSR tiers...

I've said it before in other threads, but Comp play does not equal casual play. And casual play doesn't mean playing to lose, but means playing to have fun while trying to win.

As an all around player, I will say that I like my LRMs as much as I do my direct fire weapons. LRMs have their place and are a utility weapon. This places it under direct fire weapons for full on killing power, but it has many other features to make up for this lack of direct killing power. It's all in how it's being used.

You can't blame the LRMs when a player uses them in the worst possible way (hold locks plz as I stand back here and hide/I boated nothing but LRMs, so you need to protect me). No more than you can blame the small laser when people try to snipe a target at 800+m away. Often times, it's not what your mech has on it, it's how you use what your mech has to it's fullest potential.

VorpalAnvil, on 29 November 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Another pro lurm player in action:

And this is another point I'd wish to address... Posting up vidoes of people using a weapon system in the worst manner possible also does not support your argument. In remark to this video... That LRM mech was sitting in the back, not paying attention to anything else around them (tunnel vision) and was not with their team. Seemed like he was trying to feed off his team's locks only, instead of being with the team trying to get his own locks as well. (About as bad as a Centurion found in a FP match, which had no armor and only some LRMs on it. Died instantly because he got flanked and was boating only LRMs. Not the fault of the Centurion chassis, nor LRMs specifically.)

I could probably find videos of people trying to snipe an enemy mech at long ranges with short ranged weapons. Would that invalidate those weapons? Would it have any relevance to the operation or effectiveness of said weapon?



In remark to other posters here... I will bring in whatever mech and/or loadout I desire into my matches. I do not have any obligation to bring in only the top meta mechs into matches. I don't even need to fully fill out the tonnage provided to me when I'm group dropping (and often times you don't want me to move out of my Medium mech anyway). If I bring in a loudout or mech you do not like, that is no reason to harass me or anyone else. Remember, this isn't only your game, but their game as well. We all play to have fun, and we all have fun in different manners. As long as that fun follows the rules of the game, than there should be no complaints about it from anyone.

If you see someone doing something "stupid" (such as shooting LRMs within minimum range, or sniping with small lasers), politely give suggestions to help improve their game play, without dictating what they are to play and do. If someone likes LRMs, than inform them of the best possible ways to use those LRMs, even if you don't like LRMs. You can caution them away from LRMs if you desire, but you should provide what information they are needing/asking for as well.

[Blind Baku]

MacClearly, on 06 December 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

...or why lurming from the back is bad. It is also completely understandable that you think being a detriment and handicap to your team is not your fault from lurming from the back...

^This

I don't lrm a lot, but when I do, its at ~200m - 600m. Seriously if you brought Artemis and you're playing 400m+ indirect fire you're short sheeting the team by the tonnage wasted with Artemis.

Does not work on indirectly fired missiles. Line of sight from the firing unit to target must be present. (wiki)

Also... LRM 10+ are more often than not a waste of tonnage, at least in my experience. LRM5s can be tight enough to land CT respectably well, cycle fast enough to startle players, and have low heat/high cockpit shake/etc...

Again, even with all of this in mind, if you're play style is derping around at 800m from the team, you're doing it wrong, for how this game is made¹.

Can the suppression fire be enough to paralyze a bad team, yeah, but as you progress, especially on maps like Canyon, HPG, Bog, it acts more like a beacon spotlighting a potato to be harvested quickly. If the game had more mixed forces, maybe LRMs would be more useful for AA or something, but as is, generally they suck².


¹I don't care how this game "Should be" for this discussion. The LRM hate is directed toward people who weigh down their teams potential in game now, not years ago or from now.

²And I actually don't hate running them... my favorite shadow cat is still 2mpls 3alrm5s.

[Tesunie]

Blind Baku, on 06 December 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Also... LRM 10+ are more often than not a waste of tonnage, at least in my experience.

I would like to mention that they did just recently adjusted LRM10, 15 and 20's spread and refire rates (again). So they may be more viable now than they were in the past. (Also would be why you may be noticing more LRMs again in matches, as people test these changes out from the last patch.)

I've actually got some builds that carry a single LRM20 launcher (before they got buffed), mixed with other direct fire weapons. The LRMs are often used as I move into direct fire ranges with those builds, and they work reasonably well. I tend to make a lot of bracket build loadouts.

A lot of this is all in how you intend to use your mech/loadout. I have some builds that I even describe as "trap" builds. They carry enough LRMs to be a threat at range, but those LRMs help lure in opponents expecting an easy kill... Only to find my other weapons more than happy to great them. Just one of the many different tactics I've used LRMs for.

It's how you use what you've got, not always what you've brought in.

[BlueFlames]

Blind Baku, on 06 December 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

I don't care how this game "Should be" for this discussion. The LRM hate is directed toward people who weigh down their teams potential in game now, not years ago or from now.

That footnote deserved to be reprinted in full size.

[Blind Baku]

Tesunie, on 06 December 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

I would like to mention that they did just recently adjusted LRM10, 15 and 20's spread and refire rates (again). So they may be more viable now than they were in the past. (Also would be why you may be noticing more LRMs again in matches, as people test these changes out from the last patch.)

I've actually got some builds that carry a single LRM20 launcher (before they got buffed), mixed with other direct fire weapons. The LRMs are often used as I move into direct fire ranges with those builds, and they work reasonably well. I tend to make a lot of bracket build loadouts.

A lot of this is all in how you intend to use your mech/loadout. I have some builds that I even describe as "trap" builds. They carry enough LRMs to be a threat at range, but those LRMs help lure in opponents expecting an easy kill... Only to find my other weapons more than happy to great them. Just one of the many different tactics I've used LRMs for.

It's how you use what you've got, not always what you've brought in.

I totally understand, I've got a build I tried bringing LRM20's on, because of the buff¹. In the long run it was not as strong a build as I would have liked, so I scrapped it. I have yet to try the buffed 10's or 15's, but I know 5's can drill ct's and cycle more than fast enough to put out dps, so I have been sticking to what I know when I LRM.

Also that weight saved means I can bring a complement of direct fire weapons and still put up strong support in meaningful ways like being on the line when needed.

¹Still not sure the 20's can't be used to modest effect, I just didn't like them on my heavy mech build, have some other ideas but have yet to try them. Something about having 20 missiles in the spread of 15 makes me thing you can get acceptable #puglife damage out, even if most of it spreads all over the place. I'm just too busy at work these days to have the time to test it.

[Temu]

My most effective use of LRM's so far have been in the same Atlas i keep hearing hate for LRM's on an Atlas. couple 10's or 15's, Med Pulse lasers and the AC 20. LRM's for softening targets up, for firing over friendlies in the way of direct fire, for firing over a hill as you try to position, or when you finish off enemies on left flank and your trying to move over to the right flank to help with their reds, can help immediately instead of waiting till you have LOS. I find a dedicated LRM boat to be too limited in it's ability to handle changes in battlefield/enemy.. but having some on hand can really make a difference. I will say other then the occasional pot shot, i only shoot when i think the lock is solid (usually because it's my own), and pretty much 200-600m range.. (more often 300-500 window) and always move with the team, never hiding somewhere in the back no where near the rest of the company, I agree if you have an assault, you should be taking some of the hits that would be aiming for the more lightly armored Mechs on your side, their weapon damage isn't dictated by size so keeping those guns firing as long as possible helps claim the win.

[Evil Goof]

Trynn Allen, on 06 December 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

And you're like arguing with the Cannoncockers of the 1920's Navies. So take heart the feelings mutual.

As for the difference of perspective... I'm arguing for what the game should be, not the FPS drek that it usually is.

What you are arguing is super pointless however. It is akin to arguing that red socks should cure cancer. Well not only do red socks not cure cancer, it would not make any sense for them to have any part in curing cancer.

So what you think (using the term think very liberally here) the game should be because of something that absolutely doesn't translate into a first person shooter game is ridiculous. Insisting on using a tactic that also doesn't fit into the actual game itself is hilarious. The actual game that we actually have that is actually being played. The one that makes your idea of how lurms should be played and their role incredibly stupid.

To break it down in a way you likely will also not understand....perhaps we should have malee combat to adhere to cannon. Even though we don't I am going to ignore that, pretend we do, and go into matches and simulate malee by running into mechs while getting colision damage!!! Wouldn't that be a great way to fight that boring and silly meta game that has developed?????

[Tesunie]

Evil Goof, on 06 December 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

What you are arguing is super pointless however. It is akin to arguing that red socks should cure cancer. Well not only do red socks not cure cancer, it would not make any sense for them to have any part in curing cancer.

So what you think (using the term think very liberally here) the game should be because of something that absolutely doesn't translate into a first person shooter game is ridiculous. Insisting on using a tactic that also doesn't fit into the actual game itself is hilarious. The actual game that we actually have that is actually being played. The one that makes your idea of how lurms should be played and their role incredibly stupid.

To break it down in a way you likely will also not understand....perhaps we should have malee combat to adhere to cannon. Even though we don't I am going to ignore that, pretend we do, and go into matches and simulate malee by running into mechs while getting colision damage!!! Wouldn't that be a great way to fight that boring and silly meta game that has developed?????

Can you be any more insulting? Can you add a little more spite into your post? I don't think you've added in as much as you possibly could here... Thanks for your respect for others.

[Zarock]

Okay, so thumbs up for you since you play lrms but try to stay with the team and actually help the team.
Problem is: Most lrm-users dont do this. Especially in Solo-queue, the lrm boats demand locks, stay back and click a button. I dont even know why you would play the game for that.
As you said, if you dont like them, dont play them, thats what I do (or better dont do). My Problem starts when players want me to play for them, like demanding locks, uavs, etc. . Get them yourself. Im not playing for you. If I see a mech, I will lock it, but I wont risk my mech just to let you do some more damage from your safe-zone.
Another problem are mechs that should never ever have lrms, like Atlas, King Crab, Kodiak. Those mechs are meant to be at the front line, first row, which they wont if lrms are equipped. Then Heavies and Mediums got to hold the line, which they cant for long, whats left are assaults in the back without locks, crying about the "**** team". Yeah, thanks.
Most ridiculous story with lrms happened today to me:
Frozen city, conquest.
I was in a Cyclops.
At the beginning, someone, Im gonna call him Derp here, wrote "ALL PUSH THETA!"
I thought hey, someone takes the lead, good thing, so I answered "Affirmative" and went to theta (middle of the map as you may know).
Again, Derp: "ALL PUSH THETA!"
Started capping theta, waiting for the others, when 2 enemy assaults approached me, fought them, killed 1, died. Alone.
Wondering where my team was, I switched through them in spectator mode. Apparently, several were not far away, but decided to leave theta when they saw the 2 enemy mechs. Whatever. Solo Queue, what could I expect?
Then I found Derp. And thats where I got a little mad. He was 900m away from Theta, not a single scratch of course, shooting lrms from his Loup de Guerre.
Asked him why he would tell us what to do and not do it himself, no answer.
Then again, he told the team to push on some mechs, I told him to shut up. Yes, that was rude, sorry.
At the end of the game, he asked why I told him to shut up, asked back why he tells us to push and doesnt push himself, his reply: "I DID!" (apparently his caps-loc-button seemed to be broken), I replied"no you didnt!", Derp: "Yes I did, didnt you see my lrm-support?!"...
A Push needs mechs, not lrms. If you tell me where to go, I expect you to be at my side. If it was a bad plan and we both die, I aint got no problem, happens. But if you send me somewhere, just to get locks for your Lrms and let me die alone there, sorry, then you are a selfish *****.
Stuff like this makes me grab my Locust and flank the enemy team from behind just to kill lrm-boats.
And yes, Lrms are a noob.-weapon and its okay for noobs to use them, good to get into the game. Just dont argue about how lrms are not as easy to use as it seems. They are the easiest wepon in the game, period.