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New Skill Tree First Look!


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#21 Last Sight

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:12 AM

I notice that in the second image, we're looking at a HBR in the mechlab with IS AC skills unlocked. At least that's what it looks like. Maybe they just haven't implemented trees specific to each faction/mech yet. Or maybe they're going to allow all mechs to mount all weapons, clan or IS. That could help a lot with balance issues and drastically reduce the need for a lot of the IS quirks. We've got the IIC mechs, so we're past the point where each side has been salvaging tech off each other, so it'd fit the time.

#22 Nik Reaper

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:31 AM

View PostElCadaver, on 04 December 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

So, can anyone clarify how much we are going to lose in terms of mech mastery with this change?

As someone who has a lot of elite mechs, is the amount being refunded to us going to be enough to pay for the allowable number of quirks, so that every mech we have elited will stay "elited" in the new system?

Will our mechs keep their current XP, plus be refunded the extra they have spent on skills? I have several mechs with hundreds of thousands of XP on them.


Good questions, I think Russ said we will have a full refund.

So current xp + skills unlocked, but honestly , if you just mastered a mech and not used it much later, it will have a stunning 21.500 + 21.500 + something like 16.200 so about ~60k xp per mech, that is not a lot for the new system, actually if the numbers stay as they are , that's enough for 6 new upgrade points.

You need 15 to fully unlock a quirk , so reload, speed and range or ~5 points for just one aspect and the max it seems one mech can have spent is 75 so.... 12+ times more XP needed to "master" a mech now X) , and each mech, even a duplicate, needes individual leveling X) .

Though it seems as the torso twist speed and angle is still set at 0% per rank they still have a lot of tuning left to do so mby they will reconsider the SP cost.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 04 December 2016 - 10:01 AM.


#23 Mechsniper

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:09 AM

This is an epically backwards move by PGI. Whales like me who have over 150 mechs, mostly all leveled to Expert will most likely never buy another mech in this game with such a massive increase in time and effort to level a mech. I probably will never finish leveling the mechs I currently own at this rate. New players are not going to buy many mechs once a few of us roll them with fully leveled mechs. It is already painful to try to level a mech at the current rate. This is because there is little sense in running a half leveled mech If you wish to be truly competitive. Most people playing MWO have lives, family, jobs, so we have pushed our limits in gaming time to level mechs up at the current rate. I consider the current costs of real money in mechs to be at the limit of what I will pay for what I get. That is of course planned by PGI. Increase the effort involved in making that mech useful in CW,etc, and its value goes down for me. Just my first thoughts on this.

#24 Weeny Machine

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:34 AM

View PostAce Selin, on 03 December 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

I too am wondering how IS mechs are getting compensated for their loss of quirks!


Most likely the IS mech will be able to distribute more points in the skill trees

#25 EvilCow

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:37 AM

View PostMechsniper, on 04 December 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

This is an epically backwards move by PGI. Whales like me who have over 150 mechs, mostly all leveled to Expert will most likely never buy another mech in this game with such a massive increase in time and effort to level a mech. I probably will never finish leveling the mechs I currently own at this rate. New players are not going to buy many mechs once a few of us roll them with fully leveled mechs.


True, I will want to level up my old preferred first.

#26 SFC174

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:39 AM

The re-spec mechanic is a big worry for me. Experimentation is crucial and if I have to pay every time I want to swap in new weapons, etc. to get the right quirks (vs. swapping a pre-bought module) I'm simply not gonna do it, which means I'm not gonna play as much.....

#27 Y E O N N E

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:20 AM

View PostBush Hopper, on 04 December 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:


Most likely the IS mech will be able to distribute more points in the skill trees


That's my hope, yeah. It looks like 'Mechs will have a number of SP available to spend, and it may actually streamline balance for PGI, since they can add or reduce the number of SP available to a 'Mech depending on how much assistance it needs.

A 'Mech like the Storm Crow would need enough SP to get to the point where it has the equivalent of Mastery under the current system and then nothing else. A Locust is going to need enough to get both that and a level of quirking at least similar to what it has now.

#28 NoiseCrypt

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:01 PM

View PostAnTi90d, on 03 December 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

So.. now it will take..

3.5 MILLION experience points

..to master each mech.



Posted Image



..the grind is real..

Wouldn't that be 75x10'000xp = 750'000xp pr mastered mech ?

#29 Bud Crue

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:07 PM

So, I have 149 mastered mechs of which probably 130 or so are distinct variants. Each mech is like what...60-65K xp to master (I've never bothered to add it up), lets call it 65K for sake of this illustration. With all those mechs I probably have another few hundred thousand XP in excess of mastery (I don't really know, but again hang with me here).

So. 130 variants x 65,000 XP = 8,450,000 XP. Add to that say another 250,000 excess XP and that brings me to a total of 8,700,00XP. That gets refunded to me for the new skills tree. Under that schema to master 1 mech is 3.75 million 750,000XP. Edited per discussion below.

So, for 2 years worth of casual play XP under the old skill tree system is, enough to master, under the new proposed skill tree,
roughly 2 12.5 mechs plus change.

Yippee?

Edited by Bud Crue, 04 December 2016 - 12:48 PM.


#30 Wecx

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:19 PM

View PostBud Crue, on 04 December 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

So, I have 149 mastered mechs of which probably 130 or so are distinct variants. Each mech is like what...60-65K xp to master (I've never bothered to add it up), lets call it 65K for sake of this illustration. With all those mechs I probably have another few hundred thousand XP in excess of mastery (I don't really know, but again hang with me here).

So. 130 variants x 65,000 XP = 8,450,000 XP. Add to that say another 250,000 excess XP and that brings me to a total of 8,700,00XP. That gets refunded to me for the new skills tree. Under that schema to master 1 mech is 3.75 million XP.

So, for 2 years worth of casual play XP under the old skill tree system is, enough to master, under the new proposed skill tree,
roughly 2 mechs plus change.

Yippee?


Yeah, if this is the case, I won't be playing, even if i have been playing Battletech for 25 years.

#31 Bud Crue

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:21 PM

View PostWecx, on 04 December 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:


Yeah, if this is the case, I won't be playing, even if i have been playing Battletech for 25 years.


I would sure like it if PGI would clarify this sooner rather than later. Cuz man, I won't say I am uninstalling, but if my numbers are even close to right...that is some serious ******** right there.

#32 Dino Might

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:27 PM

This is going to suck because all the skills are direct upgrades and not sidegrades. This one is a total bust for me...
More noob stomping incoming.

#33 MechaBattler

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:28 PM

I think I'll just wait to hear more.

Edited by MechaBattler, 04 December 2016 - 12:32 PM.


#34 NoiseCrypt

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:31 PM

View PostBud Crue, on 04 December 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

So, I have 149 mastered mechs of which probably 130 or so are distinct variants. Each mech is like what...60-65K xp to master (I've never bothered to add it up), lets call it 65K for sake of this illustration. With all those mechs I probably have another few hundred thousand XP in excess of mastery (I don't really know, but again hang with me here).

So. 130 variants x 65,000 XP = 8,450,000 XP. Add to that say another 250,000 excess XP and that brings me to a total of 8,700,00XP. That gets refunded to me for the new skills tree. Under that schema to master 1 mech is 3.75 million XP.

So, for 2 years worth of casual play XP under the old skill tree system is, enough to master, under the new proposed skill tree,
roughly 2 mechs plus change.

Yippee?


Wouldn't that be 75x10'000xp = 750'000xp pr mastered mech ?

#35 Wecx

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:33 PM

View PostNoiseCrypt, on 04 December 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:


Wouldn't that be 75x10'000xp = 750'000xp pr mastered mech ?


No because as you climb the tree it gets more expensive,

#36 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:33 PM

You know I just realized another problem. Looking at those images your going to find that your having to spend points in skills you don't want to get skills you do.

For example, the Streak Missile tree seems to require to unlock Streak Missile range before you can unlock the Streak Missile Cooldown. If I don't care about range, that is one wasted point on something I don't feel I need.

Or worse, the Enhanced Narc skills. Looks to me like you would have to invest 9 points in the skill tree just to get both 10% bonuses to NARC.

#37 AnTi90d

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:34 PM

View PostNoiseCrypt, on 04 December 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

Wouldn't that be 75x10'000xp = 750'000xp pr mastered mech ?




Yeah, I didn't see that it was capped at 75 skills.

Still, 750,000 XP is an absurd amount of XP to drop into one variant of one chassis.. This will certainly hurt mechbay sales.. and probably future mech sales. Who wants new toys when they aren't finished with even four of their dozens of toys?

..not to mention the Clan mechs that are performing well, without quirks, will now be able to choose their own quirks and utterly dominate everything around them.

Even if they gave the IS double the skill points of the Clan mechs, it still wouldn't equal to the same performance on the battlefield. Kodiak 3s with ballistic range / velocity quirks.. on top of armor / structure quirks?.. Great idea, PGI.

RIP: Clan VS IS semi-balance.

Also, giving the IS more skill slots per mech just makes the grind to master them exponentially more unbearably long.

-----


I really like the idea of more customization in the skill trees, but the amount of grinding.. the Clan vs IS imbalance this will create.. the fact that, with Jump Jet height quirks, this thing brings back the poptart Gauss/PPC meta.. complete with velocity buffs for their Gauss/PPC..

I'm really god damn happy that I've downloaded ~20 new games to play just in case PGI threw the game into the crapper, as it seems they were on track to do since the minimap update / rescale / dequirkening / roundtable..



Posted Image


Edited by AnTi90d, 04 December 2016 - 12:36 PM.


#38 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:35 PM

View PostWecx, on 04 December 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:


No because as you climb the tree it gets more expensive,


Lets hope that is not the case because 750k XP to master one mech is already crazy. 3.75 million is just ridiculous.

#39 NoiseCrypt

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:37 PM

View PostWecx, on 04 December 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:


No because as you climb the tree it gets more expensive,


I don't think so. I have watched the clip a couple of times and all the pretty screen shots... where are you getting this from?
Not that 750'00 still isn't way to much for a single variant.

#40 Sjorpha

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:44 PM

View PostDino Might, on 04 December 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

This is going to suck because all the skills are direct upgrades and not sidegrades. This one is a total bust for me...
More noob stomping incoming.

So much this.

Also not actually sold on locking in so much specialization in each mech, it will reduce build diversity as people learn the optimal upgrade paths.

I think leveling and straight upgrades are horrible design for arena pvp games, skill in playing and building should be the only disparities between players.

Edited by Sjorpha, 04 December 2016 - 12:47 PM.






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