395 replies to this topic

[Domoneky]

Escort looks like its gonna be a worthless game mode considering everyone has their loadouts spec'ed out to take down an Atlas in two or three hits. I'm gonna call it.

Escort is going to be DOA

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Crashking, on 05 December 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

So what you are saying is since they are human we should just expect mistakes and let them take our cash for not fulfilling the goals they set forth as being expectations in MWO? They should be able to use the monies paid in under MWO to go out and make a whole new game that they plan to sell us. MWO has enough problems without them splitting their focus as a way to try for more $$$. At the rate I see the industry going, I just might have to head to the library for some books and other entertainment instead.

I am fine with them siphoning copious amounts of funds from MWO to fund MW5 :|

Companies are allowed to do what they want with the money they make. I was happy to discover it was going to more than beer.

[StORmTrAin]

Maybe this was already answered, sorry if I missed it but, what will happen to the un-used xp accrued on each mech?

[MovinTarget]

StORmTrAin, on 05 December 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

Maybe this was already answered, sorry if I missed it but, what will happen to the un-used xp accrued on each mech?

It will still be around in some shape or form, that you can use for unlocking skills.

[xSleeZyx]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 05 December 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

Ok... my intial reaction to the Skill Tree announcement was to freak out, then people reassured me that i shouldnt be freaking so i calmed down a little. MWO just put out a video about.... WHAT THE ****!!!!!!!!!!! So now it cost 10,000 XP/GXP for each Skill Point, every Mech can have 75 Skill Points, and it cost 50,000 cbills for each Skill Point placement... bringing the grand total of 750,000xp/gxp & 3,750,000 cbills to fully unlock a single mech. but wait.... theres more! they made sure to put a very easy to find button to convert Mech XP to GXP for real money (MC) on the Home screen which makes it all better, right???

the comments are disabled on the video... way to make the game even worse for new players & driving people down to just a very few Meta-Mechs because of the exorbitant cost in grinding and/or real money to spec out each individual mech. as someone who is sitting on millions & millions of mech xp that will be refunded and at least 1 of every module in the game... this is still daunting to me, any new or casual player is going to drop this game like a hot rock.

Is this true? Where can i find this?
If it's that much of a grind for 1 friggin mech, ill prolly quit playing.
On my good mechs i've like 120-200k spare exp that i occasionaly use mc to convert so i can buy other modules.

750k per mech is going to take a lifetime for 1 mech...
Unless exp gains are heavily increased that is.

[Void Angel]

Crashking, on 05 December 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

I can deal with how they have the weapons producing heat when fired and needing time to cool off though this is contrary to rules of tabletop, which only have heat build up for exceeding your heat sink capacity. I wonder how the co-founder looks at what PGI has produced here compared to what they made originally as well as what type of input he might have had.

Tested it; didn't work as you claimed; claim disproven. Citation or get out.

You also don't understand how Battletech's heat system works, either mechanically or conceptually. Battletech's turns were generalized averages of ten-second slices of time. If you are heat-neutral in Battletech, it means that your heat spikes when you fire, and then cools down over that ten-second period. Now, you can claim that Battletech and MWO have different heat per second on their weapons, and that's true - but if you think that's without precedent in tabletop, your expertise is lacking. In Solaris VII - where players are given much more moment-by-moment control of the action - you find different max rates of fire (ergo, different heat per second) and a close analog to the "ghost heat" system.

The heat scale penalties in tabletop would be a nice balance measure, but it's not necessary - either to be a "real" Mechwarrior game or to balance the system. The tabletop systems will not, have not, and cannot be directly translated into a FPS format game. There will always be adjustments, and as long as they work, and fit thematically into the game, that's fine - MWO does this, so if you feel the adjustments aren't working, talk about that. If you're just waving the rulebook to a different game around, people will tell you to put it down and stop hitting.

The idea that heat scale somehow balanced the cooler and lighter Clan Battlemechs is simply absurd. Clan Battlemechs were superior ounce-for-ounce, and were designed to be that way. Clans are superior through all the balance mechanisms: heat, weight, range, damage, space, etc. And before you ask: no, BattleValue is not a magic wand to make it work, nor would Zellbrigen's battlefield strictures help in MWO.

Edited by Void Angel, 05 December 2016 - 10:04 PM.

[Void Angel]

xSleeZyx, on 05 December 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

Is this true? Where can i find this?
If it's that much of a grind for 1 friggin mech, ill prolly quit playing.
On my good mechs i've like 120-200k spare exp that i occasionaly use mc to convert so i can buy other modules.

750k per mech is going to take a lifetime for 1 mech...
Unless exp gains are heavily increased that is.

Well, it won't be that bad for players who already know what 'mechs are their favorites, and go with those - but too much investment required means that the idea of fiddling with new 'mechs to see how they really work could be daunting.

However, before we all freak out it should be remembered that this is just a plan at this point - leaving them constructive feedback on the subject is still an option. I'm also looking for the video and can't find it.

Never mind - here it is. Watching now.

[xSleeZyx]

Void Angel, on 05 December 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

Well, it won't be that bad for players who already know what 'mechs are their favorites, and go with those - but too much investment required means that the idea of fiddling with new 'mechs to see how they really work could be daunting.

However, before we all freak out it should be remembered that this is just a plan at this point - leaving them constructive feedback on the subject is still an option. I'm also looking for the video and can't find it.

Yepp, i've been looking around a bit and did found that video.
However 750k is a steeep grind incase they'd go that route.

But yes i'll wait it out and see how it turns out, atm i got no time to play anyhow so.

[Nutta88]

We really need to have more detail quickly on the skill tree...

As it appears from the presentation slides, and comments; the skill tree change blows having more than one chassis of mech type out of the water. Which ruins one of the primary reasons for buying a mech pack rather than just waiting for the special,hero etc to be available for mc or CB. If you don't need level up three variants, why buy three or more in a mech pack...

Take the assassin, I love it. As I've played it in loads in other battletech games. So I've got the $20 pack on order, and if it wasn't awful I was going to buy the hero for the ecm and CB bonus... the mechpack now gives me three useless chassis and all I was really after was the hero with ecm. I may as well get a refund and wait for the hero to come out for mc. All I'd need to get is the hero, job done.

I'm not sure why pgi is breaking the main reason that people buy a mech packs other than to get the mechs
first. If skill points cost 10k XP and 50k CB per skill point then why buy possibly rubbish mechs to waste your time on.

So requirements should be somewhere between 1k and 10k XP per sp. 10k is too much and maybe 1k too little. I tried to go with the locust a few months ago. I gave up as I seemed to be lucky to get 300xp per game... To get somewhere with a chassis you are rubbish with it may take over 30 games to get one sp. I think my first game with the kdk-3 I hit about 6k XP. And average over 2k XP per game.

10k xp per sp is not awful for the kdk3, timber or several good clan mechs. But for a few of the poorer mechs I've tried to level it would be like like pulling teeth.

There is a bit of salt around the time I've spent going backwards trying to basic rubbish mechsso I could elite a particular "good" mech version.

If feels like I will just sell rubbish mechs which would now be pointless and buy the chassis I really want to play... Which means I won't need to spend any money. I have more than enough mech bays and CB to have all of the individual mechs I want...

This Just breaks flow of funds from me to PGI. I've spent more than $150 since april...Not a lot of money but alot more than I've ever spent on a game. How this change looks, it would be silly to buy anything else until it makes some sort of sense...

Edited by Nutta88, 05 December 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[Void Angel]

Nutta88, on 05 December 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

As it appears from the presentation slides, and comments; the skill tree change blows having more than one chassis of mech type out of the water.

Not actually - because each 'mech will have its own tree. There are things in the trailer like "PPC Range" which apply only to 'mechs with energy hardpoints, so it's not a general skill tree unless I've misunderstood something or been misinformed.

You are definitely correct that this will affect cash flow. The extra incentive to buy MC for GXP conversion will in no way make up for my slowing down 'mech pack orders, because heck - I don't even have my Huntsmen mastered yet.

Edit: Forgot that the new system is by 'mech variant, unless I am misinformed.

Edited by Void Angel, 05 December 2016 - 09:31 PM.

[Void Angel]

For math: Assuming I want to master all the 'mechs: there are currently (unless I mis-keyed my calculator) 348 unique variants in the game - as per my Mech Trees skill list. This means that if Pirhana stopped making 'mechs right now, I'd need two hundred and sixty-one million experience to make that happen. I've been playing for a while, but a quick guesstimation of my current excess experience says I don't havemore than a couple million lying around in excess 'mech xp.

If I played the game like a job instead of a hobby, 40 hours a week, let's see... Assume I average 2,500 experience a match, including Premium Time (which we shall assume I am always running) and first-win bonuses. Assume 7 matches an hour, including time in the queue. That's 8 minutes and 34 seconds a match, and all this works out to 17,500 experience an hour; ~700,000 a month; and 8,400,000 a year. It would take me thirty-one. fracking. years. to skill out just the current 'mechs - not including those currently in the pipeline.

Now, I only have 67 unique variants - so if I stopped buying new 'mechs entirely, given the above assumptions I'd be set for six years - which is longer than I've been playing the game. That's longer than anyone has been playing the game.

Edited by Void Angel, 05 December 2016 - 09:00 PM.

[Void Angel]

That's insane. That's more hours than I'd have to spend to level up all the character classses on an MMORPG, and remember - I'm assuming that I'm buying Premium Time and treating the game like a job. If I even treat it like a part-time job and do twenty hours a week, you double those time estimates. If I only play a couple of hours and skip a couple of days like a normal person, you double it again.

[Void Angel]

So again - we need to remember that this isn't implemented yet, and give constructive feedback that might actually persuade the devs. Freak-outs will tend to encourage pushback in irrational people, and convince rational people that you're not thinking things through. So in no way is just vomiting nerd-rage going to be productive - but this isn't going to work for people, and I think we need to communicate that to the devs.

[Windscape]

I'm very happy where this is all going Its just going to take SO LONG to level up my mechs again when they do whatever with the skill tree.

[The Reaper Beckons]

So you take the money from MWO, build mechwarrior 5, then sell it to us as a AAA title?
Man, I love it. Holy crap thats incredible business acumen.

[Void Angel]

Man, you have no idea where that money came from - citation, or... you know the rest.

Edited by Void Angel, 05 December 2016 - 09:57 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

The Reaper Beckons, on 05 December 2016 - 09:55 PM, said:

So you take the money from MWO, build mechwarrior 5, then sell it to us as a AAA title?
Man, I love it. Holy crap thats incredible business acumen.

[Void Angel]

Windscape, on 05 December 2016 - 09:18 PM, said:

I'm very happy where this is all going Its just going to take SO LONG to level up my mechs again when they do whatever with the skill tree.

Way too long; I'm happy with everything else, too - but the total cost of skilling out 'mechs is going to be insane unless they reduce the point cost.

I made a post about it here, basically re-iterating my comments above - the subject warrants its own topic.

[Wing 0]

Integrate quick play in Faction play? that's one dumb way of killing a unique mode all together. Let me guess. We have to play with lousy quick play restrictions.. Things like that was why I don't play much Quick play. Too boring and too obvious and too many idiots.

[radiv]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 05 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

First by who's definition are they struggling to develop 1 game at a time? They are developing a game just fine, what they're struggling to do is please their divided customer base. Personally I love MWO, it's my favorite game that I own. I would be disappointed if development stopped, but I could live with what we have now for the rest of time if they just kept the servers up.

First-and-a-half, that's a non-sequitur, your second sentence does nto follow from the argument you've made in your first. If PGI team 1 is composed of Allen, Brick, Joey and Steve, and they have developed MWO very poorly, that says next to nothing about how the new hires on team 2: Marty, Jim, and Spok, and Duke will preform when they are tasked to create MW5.

Now if PGI divides team 1 to make up team 2 then you should be concerned about progress on MWO slowing down, and if team 2 has members that have previously been a part of team 1 but both teams are brought up to full strength, you might see some marginal negative impact from their performance. However, PGI has not given us any details about how these teams are made up.

To me it stands to reason that both teams will be nearly at full strength by the time MW5 is in full development, and if this is the case you're going to have a fair amount of fresh blood somewhere working on each of the projects, and that will encourage things to change, whether for better or worse.

Second, I think you vastly under-estimate how many battletech fans want to see another single player game. I can see your argument making more sense for the crowd of players where this is their first Mechwarrior game, but the old guard seems largely pleased with the MW5 decision to me.

Oh and don't worry, I've spent $1500+ on this game, and I'd be happy to work my whale booty a little more if it means I could support the development of MW5 a little more to make up for the few players who will now stop spending money because of MW5.

They are developing the game just fine?????? what did they do the last year?
added 2 maps and a bunch of cashgrabs
throwing the balance wheel around showing they have no understandings of they own game. In example Kodiak why did the best one come with quirks and not the rest?

They screwed the endgame mode over to the point that they have to reduce it now cus people arent playing.

They annonced a whole new heatsystem and took it back.(that was hillarious)

Yeah ur right theyr doing fine..... except for the fact that the game was probably better 1 year ago.. atleast then the endgame was alive

Edited by radiv, 05 December 2016 - 11:36 PM.