149 replies to this topic

[Ziogualty]

I feel nothing wrong with it, but...

For sure, i read quite a lot of posts were people keep pointing out "They are a small company, few people, not much money" to justify how slow and bumpy the development of MWO was/is.

Now i really hope this "reason" is gone for good.

[BluefireMW]

Imperial X, on 04 December 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Anyone who thinks that money spent to a company in one game, goes solely to further the development of that one single game and not other projects, have no concept of business. There have been no false pretenses. Once the money leaves your wallet and enters their wallet, it becomes their money. They can do what they please with their money.

You are right. The way is if you get aware of that method.. don't give them any money, let the people pay for it who want that single player campaign.

This is just another way to get more money... and as it seems... it will work.... but it won't be mine, because i didn't want a single player mechwarrior game, ever.

Edited by BluefireMW, 06 December 2016 - 05:15 AM.

[Elessar]

BluefireMW, on 06 December 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

You are right. The way is if you get aware of that method.. don't give them any money, let the people pay for it who want that single player campaign.
...

Well, I guess even people who are aware of this and don't want a single player game will give them money.
After all this money wasn't a pure donation, but rather was a financial transaction that bought people virtual goods (like Mechs, Paint Schemes, Modules, Premium Time and so on).
I don't think there were any financial transaction that were pure donations (i.e. where the player didn't receive anything in return)

Edited by Elessar, 06 December 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[TKSax]

Hunka Junk, on 05 December 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

LOL yes they did. The strawman here is making it simply about money.

It's more about how development works I have been in software development for a long time and that is just how it works. You have a budget to spend on that product. Some of the revenue from the product goes back some of it doesn't.

Hunka Junk, on 05 December 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

It's about time, focus, and effort. You finish what you start, especially if it's "what's keeping the lights on". That, now pay attention, is not saying MWO needed 100% of any of the above. The problem is that MWO is still a minimally viable hot mess that will never be more than a minimally viable hot mess. And don't gimme no line about two separate teams. MWO has had a team for years, and what became of it? Very little. Oh but now we have two teams!!! Yay.

Honestly, I don't disagree with any of this. Instead of creating a Second team for MW5 they could have hired more people to work on MWO for CW and game modes, however, that was not going to bring them new revenue like a new game would. MWO's biggest issue is the lack of focus by PGI on what MWO is going to be. Probably the best thing going for MW5 potential success is that it is going to be that it is single player only. MWO has suffered from Poor Managment of what it's going to be. Simply adding more people was not going to change that. So I don't see MWO suffering anymore that it was before because they created a new team for MW5, or even at the expense because simply add more people is not going to change what how the team has been managed.

[Johnny Z]

TKSax, on 06 December 2016 - 06:19 AM, said:

It's more about how development works I have been in software development for a long time and that is just how it works. You have a budget to spend on that product. Some of the revenue from the product goes back some of it doesn't.




Honestly, I don't disagree with any of this. Instead of creating a Second team for MW5 they could have hired more people to work on MWO for CW and game modes, however, that was not going to bring them new revenue like a new game would. MWO's biggest issue is the lack of focus by PGI on what MWO is going to be. Probably the best thing going for MW5 potential success is that it is going to be that it is single player only. MWO has suffered from Poor Managment of what it's going to be. Simply adding more people was not going to change that. So I don't see MWO suffering anymore that it was before because they created a new team for MW5, or even at the expense because simply add more people is not going to change what how the team has been managed.

I have nearly been spamming that MW5 is good for this game but I really think its the truth. From a business point of view. The way things work these days. There are all sorts of rules and regulations and tax and financing things involved.

So any legit players should be very happy at the moment. They doubled their work in effect as a guess..... Sure not for this game but they can sell each other assets at a discount.

Edited by Johnny Z, 06 December 2016 - 06:40 AM.

[Appogee]

I've been saying since February that I thought they had shifted development focus and resources to a new project.

At least now I know what that secret project has been, and that it's something I'd potentially enjoy ... assuming PGI ever get it finished.

I feel:

• sad that MWO hasn't/won't get much dev attention.
  
• relieved that PGI didn't ask us to crowdfund MW5.
  
• depressed that I spent a year levelling Mechs that will now require 12x as much XP.

I haven't played a match since MechCon. That says something.

Edited by Appogee, 06 December 2016 - 07:01 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Appogee, on 06 December 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

I've been saying since February that I thought they had shifted development focus and resources to a new project.

At least now I know what it has been, and that it's something I'd enjoy ... if/when PGI ever get it finished.

I remain sad that MWO hasn't been getting enough attention, and that this is now set to continue to for the year ahead.

I'm depressed that I spent a year levelling Mechs ... only to find out that it will now take 12x as much to level a Mech under the new system. I will sell most of my 236 Mechs instead.

Why do I think you would say that no matter what the new skill tree looked like. Did you expect the skill tree from closed beta would remain? One that was for sure going to be replaced the entire time and every knew that. Now years later the drama about it is almost hilarious.

Edited by Johnny Z, 06 December 2016 - 06:49 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

TKSax, on 06 December 2016 - 06:19 AM, said:

MWO's biggest issue is the lack of focus by PGI on what MWO is going to be. Probably the best thing going for MW5 potential success is that it is going to be that it is single player only. MWO has suffered from Poor Managment of what it's going to be. Simply adding more people was not going to change that.

There was a very clear message about what it was going to be.

Then, my interpretation is that PGI found that, if mech packs sell for the TDM beta version of the game, there was zero interest in doing all the heavy lifting involved to get a full game with an immersive endgame.

So, they tried to put this game out to pasture and shift to Transverse.

That didn't work, so they shifted into the "now our other project has to be secret" mode. They fundamental strategy of this mode was to redo everything and call it new content. They knew they were slacking on MWO at this point. They were just hoping that no one would notice. People noticed.

And there will be no MWO beyond TDM.

That's not failure due to MWO not knowing what it's supposed to be. That's a full-on falling flat on that little cow-skull's face becayse they had a plan, told everyone what the plan was, and then spent half a decade thoroughly establishing that they lacked the talent and leadership to pull it off.

And here's the part where I get to say it again: People who are crapping themselves over how awesome MW5 is going to be ought to have a look around here.

And JZ, I'd totally love to make a wager with you about all of the imaginary improvements MW5 is going to bring to MWO, but that would involve me giving the little cow skull more of my money, and that ain't happening. It might around 2020 when I pick MW5 up on a steam sale to see how awesome it was.

Edited by Hunka Junk, 06 December 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[Appogee]

Johnny Z, on 06 December 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

Why do I think you would say that no matter what the new skill tree looked like.

I dunno. Maybe because you're ignorant...?

Johnny Z, on 06 December 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

Did you expect the skill tree from closed beta would remain?

No, I merely hoped it would be replaced by something requiring less than 12x the amount of XP.

Johnny Z, on 06 December 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

...every knew that. Now years later the drama about it is almost hilarious.

What will be really hilarious is when people suddenly realise just how long you will need to pilot each unleveled Mech, with even the most basic unlocks now taking 10,000XP per skill point.

Oh, and when PGI eventually realise that removing the 3-Mech levelling rule, while multiplying the levelling grind by 12, stopped people buying the 3-Mech Packs they relied on to keep funding MW5.

My bet is that they'll announce a crowdfunding effort to 'accelerate the development of MW5' when they realise what they've done.

Edited by Appogee, 06 December 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

Johnny Z, on 06 December 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

Why do I think you would say that no matter what the new skill tree looked like. Did you expect the skill tree from closed beta would remain? One that was for sure going to be replaced the entire time and every knew that. Now years later the drama about it is almost hilarious.

The new skill tree is the latest version of PGI's minimap fallacy.

This is the fallacy wherein nobody at PGI asks an actual player of the game other than yes men how the new feature is.

Everybody nods their heads and smiles.

Then, it hits the community like a brick because they actually respond critically to how not swell at all the new idea is.

Instead of "Wehehehehe! We Have a SECRET!", the last half of 2016 could've been spent showing this idea to the community, getting feedback, and then making changes so that say, fathers of four can play this game without abandoning their families.

And Johnny, when the new skill tree is a **** sandwich, you're not really helping PGI or the community by going "Yum, it's the best candy bar in the whole wide world!" M'kay?

Edited by Hunka Junk, 06 December 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Hunka Junk, on 06 December 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

The new skill tree is the latest version of PGI's minimap fallacy.

This is the fallacy wherein nobody at PGI asks an actual player of the game other than yes men how the new feature is.

Everybody nods their heads and smiles.

Then, it hits the community like a brick because they actually respond critically to how not swell at all the new idea is.

Instead of "Wehehehehe! We Have a SECRET!", the last half of 2016 could've been spent showing this idea to the community, getting feedback, and then making changes so that say, fathers of four can play this game without abandoning their families.

And Johnny, when the new skill tree is a **** sandwich, you're not really helping PGI or the community by going "Yum, it's the best candy bar in the whole wide world!" M'kay?

Well its a mech tree really. Second, who says its bad? No one knows the details of how it will work yet. No one can complain at the moment really. Just a lot of baseless drama. "I'm selling all my mechs WAAAAAAA."

Edited by Johnny Z, 06 December 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Appogee, on 06 December 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

I dunno. Maybe because you're ignorant...?

No, I merely hoped it would be replaced by something requiring less than 12x the amount of XP.


What will be really hilarious is when people suddenly realise just how long you will need to pilot each unleveled Mech, with even the most basic unlocks now taking 10,000XP per skill point.

Oh, and when PGI eventually realise that removing the 3-Mech levelling rule, while multiplying the levelling grind by 12, stopped people buying the 3-Mech Packs they relied on to keep funding MW5.

My bet is that they'll announce a crowdfunding effort to 'accelerate the development of MW5' when they realise what they've done.

There was a big push on these forums that the current skill tree had to much grind around the time this game launched on Steam..... This is more of the same kind a push.

Also I am the first to say no to grind. If they want exp and credit sinks then they should add content players want rather than adding to the grind.

Current grind is minimal if any at all. No one knows what the new grind will be.

Grind is the cheapest content available and this game, to its credit has not used it yet. Yet they got no credit for that, just a lot of complaints. Other games use grind in the extreme....

World of Warships how long to get a specific ship? How long after that to max its potential. MechWarrior Online is currently probly 1/20 of that.

A new player can have a top mech for pvp in any match in a couple weeks to a couple months in this game, for World of Warships and MOST of the, if not ALL of the other games its like a year or more.

Even a stock trial hour one mech piloted well can have a chance to do well in any match with some luck. Say that about the competition...

Anyone complaining about grind has got to be joking.

Edited by Johnny Z, 06 December 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[Appogee]

Johnny Z, on 06 December 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

...who says its bad? No one knows the details of how it will work yet. No one can complain at the moment

And yet...

Johnny Z, on 06 December 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

really. Just a lot of baseless drama.

... you somehow know the drama is "baseless".

[BluefireMW]

It seems, nobody is furious, all are happy and lets talk about the skill tree.
The attention span of a normal mwo player.
5 mins?

[BluefireMW]

At Least they split there attention to this game, because in near future all mechs to be sold are done in 3052. So first you build an own mech.
In this case the most loved size. An overquirked 65t mech, with high hardpoints.

And afterwards you go and sell a different game, for another type of player than that usually is playing MWO.

I am not surprised that MWLL gets back from the grave it was buried.

Edited by BluefireMW, 06 December 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[SmithMPBT]

Agent1190, on 04 December 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Yes. That's exactly the conclusion I came to.

Because it isn't cool to say "high five, PGI, you're giving us the single player campaign we've been calling for." You have to be indignant. You have to be insulting. Your rally is "You've spent my mech pack money on a different game? How dare you! You weren't working on what I wanted, so I stopped paying you, and now I find out you were working on what I wanted, and I am angry you spent MWO money on it, money I didn't give you."

People have been asking for a single player campaign integrated into MWO. Not a standalone game that will take years to develop. There will likely be no integration between the 2 games, nor will assets be shared, due to the different game engines. Additionally the "dedicated crew" at PGI creating MW5 doesn't seem to be new hires, so they pulled guys off MWO development to once again make a pie in the sky 2nd game.

[TheArisen]

Appogee, on 06 December 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

I've been saying since February that I thought they had shifted development focus and resources to a new project.

At least now I know what that secret project has been, and that it's something I'd potentially enjoy ... assuming PGI ever get it finished.

I feel:

• sad that MWO hasn't/won't get much dev attention.
  
• relieved that PGI didn't ask us to crowdfund MW5.
  
• depressed that I spent a year levelling Mechs that will now require 12x as much XP.

I haven't played a match since MechCon. That says something.

Russ said that development of MW5 will not affect MWO. They have their own separate teams.

[mogs01gt]

Naelbis, on 04 December 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

So for months people have been begging for single plaer..now they are pissed that PGI is working on a single player Mchwarrior game in a better engine? One that may allow them to eventually port MWO over and tie the two torgether?

I'd hope its part of MWO since we have invested into this game. I know I wouldnt buy a separate single player game.

[Imperius]

mogs01gt, on 06 December 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

I'd hope its part of MWO since we have invested into this game. I know I wouldnt buy a separate single player game.

It's not part of MWO so you can thankfully stay here.

[Elessar]

SmithMPBT, on 06 December 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

People have been asking for a single player campaign integrated into MWO. Not a standalone game that will take years to develop. There will likely be no integration between the 2 games, nor will assets be shared, due to the different game engines. Additionally the "dedicated crew" at PGI creating MW5 doesn't seem to be new hires, so they pulled guys off MWO development to once again make a pie in the sky 2nd game.

Yes, both games have different engines ... but that is exactly what people say:
I.e., that this could be a first step to migrate MWO to another, better and more modern game engine (i.e. UE4).
The dll-library that gets programmed for MW5 could considerably shortemn the development times for a MWO-Version on UE4 (as most dlls programmed for MW5 could also be used in MWO, letting the network mechanics remain as the bulk of programming that would have to be done to adapt it to MWO)

With the added bonus that bugfixing (of the dlls) for MW5 could also be immediately integrated into MWO (by transferring the new dll versions to the MWO project and perhaps making adaptions if the interface changes and then recompiling it)

A migration of MWO to UE4 could considerably prolong the liftime of MWO

Edited by Elessar, 06 December 2016 - 11:33 AM.